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  1. #1
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    Bose 201V, Infinity Primus 150, do I need Epos?

    So I've compared the Bose 201V with the Infinity Primus 150's mainly because they are both in my price range, easily available, and easily returnable. To my ear the Infinitys sound flat(I might be using this term incorrectly) next to the Boses, like they are coming through a some filter (the grills are off).

    Does this make sence from what others have heard? Can anyone help me to better describe this? Is there anything I can do? Could this have anything to do with break-in?

    Finally, do I need to step up to Epos or Warfedale to match the clarity of the Boses and still have overall great sound quality in a small package? Is there any way to get Epos ELS3 or Diamond 9.1 for less than $300?

    thanks for your help
    mark

    BTW: I really crank music, mostly moderate living room music
    Last edited by curiousburke; 08-01-2006 at 07:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    Oh Noooo!!!...

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    So I've compared the Bose 201V with the Infinity Primus 150's mainly because they are both in my price range, easily available, and easily returnable. To my ear the Infinitys sound flat(I might be using this term incorrectly) next to the Boses, like they are coming through a some filter (the grills are off).

    Does this make sence from what others have heard? Can anyone help me to better describe this? Is there anything I can do? Could this have anything to do with break-in?

    Finally, do I need to step up to Epos or Warfedale to match the clarity of the Boses and still have overall great sound quality in a small package? Is there any way to get Epos ELS3 or Diamond 9.1 for less than $300?

    thanks for your help
    mark
    ...you said the magic word...the Bose-bashers are coming run for your lives!!!

    Speakers are highly subjective...buy what you like...just be sure that when comparing loudspeakers only compare two at a time...decide between those two then match your preferred choice against the third, etc.

    Also be sure the volume is level matched...we humans have a tendency to prefer the louder when making these comparisons...also make sure both speakers are connected to the same source/amplification...some unscrupulous-types have been known to pull a fast one and futz with tone controls when making A/B demos...one set-up may have boosts and the other may be set at "flat"...Even positioning plays a part...those at ear-level will sound markedly different than those say, at waist level...and bring your own music, something you are familiar with...Some demo discs may not be what they seem...they can also be enhanced to make one thing sound "better" than another...

    Of course these are generalities, but you should be aware things do happen...

    One last thing...don't worry about "break-in"...worry about salesmen who tell you things will sound better after they're broken-in...

    jimHJJ(...caveat emptor...and good luck...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  3. #3
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Ditto. Pick what sounds best to you.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  4. #4
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    thanks Resident Lobster for the advice. I've been trying to keep all these things constant. I havew an old Hitachi SR-604 amp that can drive 2 sets. The volume is a little tricky since the bose tend to be just slightly louder at the same volume position. I have 2 identical cd's of test music some of which I listen to a lot and other stuff that I think is good for testing; although, I'm listening to that alot now!


    BTW: you would probably die laughing seeing me sitting on my couch with my 10' 2x3 changing between speaker sets with the angst on my face trying to determine the pro's and con's of each.
    Last edited by curiousburke; 08-01-2006 at 07:17 AM.

  5. #5
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    I will in the end pick whatever sounds best, but on the other hand I'm a sucker for construction quality of which the Bose is certainly less likeable with the spring connectors and unfinished particle board on the edges in the back. I'm aslo not sure I like the sound of the bose better, so much as it just sounds more articulate. Again, I'm faltering for the exact words to describe what I hear. Maybe I just need to turn up the treble on the infinitys.
    -m

  6. #6
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    I've been called...

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    thanks Resident Lobster for the advice. I've been trying to keep all these things constant. I havew an old Hitachi SR-604 amp that can drive 2 sets. The volume is a little tricky since the bose tend to be just slightly louder at the same volume position. I have 2 identical cd's of test music some of which I listen to a lot and other stuff that I think is good for testing; although, I'm listening to that alot now!
    ...many things 'round these parts, but a crustacean ain't one of 'em...My tips were really aimed at the shopping experience...if you have the luxury of doin' it in the comfort and privacy of your own home, more power to you...

    And yes, perception of build quality is a legitimate reason to deep-six any candidate...having said that, in reality it may not make a big difference performance-wise.

    Perhaps the Infinity's are more neutral...Neutrality or a "flat"-er response doesn't necessarily grab you...We all get acclimated to what we hear every day, so something that may perhaps measure better seems to be substandard to our listening experience...as said earlier auditioning loudspeakers is a very subjective matter. Sometimes we have to teach our ears how to listen and learn what to listen for.

    jimHJJ(...your ears, your wallet...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...many things 'round these parts, but a crustacean ain't one of 'em...
    opps! sorry, sometimes it's so obvious that our consious minds are not in direct contact with reality and we see the world a massive filter of what we expect to see. Don't ask me why I expected to see 'lobster'
    -m

  8. #8
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    Don't worry...

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    opps! sorry, sometimes it's so obvious that our consious minds are not in direct contact with reality and we see the world a massive filter of what we expect to see. Don't ask me why I expected to see 'lobster'
    -m
    ...no offense taken...in fact I found it amusing and a perfect straight line for my response...

    jimHJJ(...rarely get to use the word crustacean at an audio site...'ceptin' the time we were all laughin' at GMs story about the case of the crabs...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  9. #9
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    speaker and coffee auditioning

    I have two sets of coffee beans in the house and my first cup wasn't great so I got up and made myself a cup with the other beans to compare side-by-side. I didn't get the funniness of it until I saw the two cups next to me as I compare the two sets of speakers. Do we always need to test side-by-side or can some things be good enough in isolation?

    The difference is I just have to pour out the first cup. Why can't speakers be so easy?
    -m

    p.s. would the sounds from the Epos or the Warfedales make me easily give up the others?

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...

    jimHJJ(...rarely get to use the word crustacean at an audio site...'ceptin' the time we were all laughin' at GMs story about the case of the crabs...)
    How did I get in the middle of this?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  11. #11
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    crustaceans welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    How did I get in the middle of this?
    I believe that was my fault, but glad to have you! From a distance ...

    -m

  12. #12
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    I have two sets of coffee beans in the house and my first cup wasn't great so I got up and made myself a cup with the other beans to compare side-by-side. I didn't get the funniness of it until I saw the two cups next to me as I compare the two sets of speakers. Do we always need to test side-by-side or can some things be good enough in isolation?

    The difference is I just have to pour out the first cup. Why can't speakers be so easy?
    -m

    p.s. would the sounds from the Epos or the Warfedales make me easily give up the others?
    Because a bad cup of coffee is easy to pick out. It can taste like someone used soapy water to make it. (or someone's dirty undies as a filter) But even cheap speakers can sound OK to some. Many times I have gotten up in the morning and turned on my bedroom system. "This sounds great to me." I think. " Why would anyone need better?" Then I go into the main room and turn that system on. "Wow, this is better." Then I go back to the bedroom and think, "What was I thinking? this isn't even close."
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  13. #13
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    Hmmmm...just lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    How did I get in the middle of this?
    ...wasn't it you who told the story about the crabshack on the Chesapeake Bay...the wooden mallets and the garbage cans...?

    Never mind...

    jimHJJ(...well I'll be dipped...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  14. #14
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    Ohhh! I was thinking a completely different type of crabs! Hey in that case you're welcome in person with the crustaceans.

  15. #15
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...wasn't it you who told the story about the crabshack on the Chesapeake Bay...the wooden mallets and the garbage cans...?

    Never mind...

    jimHJJ(...well I'll be dipped...)

    You trying to kill me? I'm allergic to shell fish. No dippin here.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  16. #16
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    Ohhh! I was thinking a completely different type of crabs! Hey in that case you're welcome in person with the crustaceans.
    Our resident lobster can bring the crabs. I could bring a steak though.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  17. #17
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    Senses can be fooled...

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousburke
    I have two sets of coffee beans in the house and my first cup wasn't great so I got up and made myself a cup with the other beans to compare side-by-side. I didn't get the funniness of it until I saw the two cups next to me as I compare the two sets of speakers. Do we always need to test side-by-side or can some things be good enough in isolation?

    The difference is I just have to pour out the first cup. Why can't speakers be so easy?
    -m

    p.s. would the sounds from the Epos or the Warfedales make me easily give up the others?
    ...along with memory...long term...short term...gotta' cleanse the palate or subject yourself to rapid switching...ABXs...or DBTs...remove biases...internal faults...

    Re: the mentioned speakers...again, and it's not meant to be a cop-out...we all have preferences...one might even prefer a lesser loudspeaker simply because it has a higher WAF...or has more or better dealers...not a simple as it may seem...

    jimHJJ(...very little really is...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  18. #18
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    You should try...

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    You trying to kill me? I'm allergic to shell fish. No dippin here.
    ...surimi..a blend of various fish, like pollock, with egg whites and flavorings...with a good cocktail sauce it isn't a bad substitute for the real thing...of course nothing really comes close to the raw carnivore experience of tearin' one of God's tasty morsels limb from limb and dippin' into the drawn butter...

    jimHJJ(...interesting fact: lobster used to be considered on par with offal...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  19. #19
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    I hope you're not disappointed, but I'm bringing the tofu burgers; although I do eat seafood.

    So, what do you think, would a speaker like the Diamond 9.1 really blow away the Infinities even for the untrained ears of a newbie? It;s not a trivial thing to get a listen of these. Budget for me is very difficul to determine, by that I mean that my credit cards are not maxed out, but I also didn't think I would spend $350 on speakers when I could spend $100 for a decent pair.

    I'm also still curious if other people would either describe the Infinities as somewhat flat or the Bose as crisp or whatever the opposite of flat is.

    -m

  20. #20
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I like my Infinities very much. They do a great job for very little cash IMO. There are many out there that are better. But how much better, and are they worth the extra $$'s is only up to you. There are many people who will say that the extra $$ is worth it. Just as many will say no. I know it sounds (no punn) like a cop-out, but you really do have to listen for yourself. What stores are near you? Even a Best Buy will have Klipsh and other choices to try out. CC has a few others. Don't buy anything because someone else said that they are better. They may not hear things the same way you do.
    Most speakers will last many years. So go with the ones that sound best to you and work with your system.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Registered Member paul_pci's Avatar
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    I could be wrong about this but perhaps you need to audition a greater variety of speakers to further clarify what you like and dislike about the sonic qualities different speakers can offer. Consider listening to Polk, Energy, Paradigm, B&W, Epos, PSB, and other speaker brands which ren the gamut of price ranges. Auditions are of course imperfect as the acoustics, set up, and calibration will vary from a store to the listening conditions of your caffienated living room, but it's far better than rolling the dice and crossing your fingers, unless of course it's because your in Vegas trying to augment your audio budget.

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