B&W 804's, any thoughts on them?

[musicguy04]

I'm finally graduating college this December. Anyway, I was told I could get a graduation gift of speakers and a 2-channel amp to match. I have perfect pitch and appreciate good music. Since I'm in college, I cannot afford much, so this would be my very first jump into I guess entry level hi-end.

The system I can get for graduation is a pair of B&W 804s with a Parasound Halo A23 amp to match.

Is this a good match? I think B&W's are pretty good. I like all kinds of music, including high energy techno, rap, rock, acoustic, country, and classical. I play piano, so I enjoy a good piano sonata, something my current system couldn't dream of producing properly. I already have a decent receiver, so I just am planning to add the speaker amp combo, as that's what I'm able to get as a gift.

Also, I've never heard B&W 804s, only the 603's, which I thought outclassed my current system with flying colors. But that's the price range I'm able to get as a gift, so I'll take it! :-)

[topspeed]

Good lord, I'll I got was a pat on the back!

You could definitely do worse than a pair of N803's and the A23. B&W's are very well respected and quite frankly, if you liked the 603's...well as the saying goes, "You ain't seen nothin' yet." Prepare to be floored. The difference between the 603 and 803 is akin to a Honda Civic Si vs. the NSX. You simply can't compare them. 80% of all classical recordings worldwide are mastered with B&W's which is a testament to their accuracy with acoustic music, something you might appreciate. You can't go wrong with the Nauts, period.

That said, you have 5 months to audition speakers so why not enjoy it? At this price point, your selection is enormous. Speakers are so subjective that only you can figure out what sounds best. Other highly regarded speakers in this price range are JM Lab, Von Schweikert, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Spendor, Revel, Dynaudio, Vandersteen and probably a ton of others I'm leaving out. They are all competent so get out there and choose for yourself.

Geez, what a problem to have!

[92135011]

I'm finally graduating college this December. Anyway, I was told I could get a graduation gift of speakers and a 2-channel amp to match. I have perfect pitch and appreciate good music. Since I'm in college, I cannot afford much, so this would be my very first jump into I guess entry level hi-end.

The system I can get for graduation is a pair of B&W 804s with a Parasound Halo A23 amp to match.

Your so-called "entry level hi-end" isnt really that entry level. The 804s are quite the pricey speaker and the Halo isnt something too cheap either. When I grad next year in spring, I'll be lucky to receive a Bic pen. You are quite the lucky chap. Please dont take your present for granted as many of us will receive lovely plastic bic pens rather than nice audio gear.

[Pededrengen]

The system I can get for graduation is a pair of B&W 804s with a Parasound Halo A23 amp to match.


Hello

Havent been listening close to the B & W 800 series resently, but here goes:
Earlier on the 805 was imho the best one in the series. Fast, precise,and the one in the family that was best at letting go of the music (you know, when you listen to a musical stage, rather than two points in the room (the speakers).

I know absolutely nothing about the amp.

regards.

[RGA]

You say that that is the system you can get? Are you getting money and this is what you can afford to get?

The N804 is not really much of an improvement over the CDM 9NT and I think you can do a bit better for less money than the N804.

I'd keep listening - B&W is a safe choice entry ticket to the high end world - nice speakers better than most - but I would keep hunting to make sure.

[musicguy04]

RGA, I'm not getting money and that is what I can afford, it's more like the B&W N804's and the Halo A23 amp are in the price range of the gift I'm getting. Basically, after I graduate, my dad will take me out to some stores and we'll pick it out together. Anyway, I've heard that the N804's are much better than the CDM series, which doesn't exist anymore. The CDM's evolved into the 700 series, I think, which are supposed to be comparable, if not better than the CDM's, and the N804 isn't much different in price than the 703s. I thought the 603's were pretty good, so the N804's should kick!

Anyway, my dad will not buy used,so don't suggest it, unless he knows the person, since he got scammed REALLY bad a few years back from advice on a forum like this and doesn't trust people like that plus you don't even the warranty with that.

[RGA]

Well I'm not suggesting used - certainly not internet buying used. Nevertheless High end stores do carry used speakers and you might say get the N802's a few years old for the same as new N804's and there is no copmparison to which is better. The N804 is better but not a blow you away better model over the CDM 9NT - and given the price I expect a blow you away better speaker - the point is moot now that the CDM's have stopped being made.

The B&W's are a very good speaker maker that mix good looks with good sound (one of the few who do both). Nevertheless, there are others out there other than B&W - who don't have the marketing might but which you may like better. That is what I found. I think B&W is a good starting place - I had a pair - but listen to a lot of stuff over the next months and try and stay from being pre-sold. I use pre-sold to mean that people, myself included, read a bunch of reviews, we see the beautiful LOOKS of products and the big marketing companies like B&W can put famous names as supporters of their products - some use George Lucas others use Floyd Toole - others use research facilities like the NRC - and every company has a long list of the technical reasons their speakers are best. Some will talk about measurments, Tweeter technology, Woofer material, Time alignment, phase coherence and on and on.

The best thing is to simply listen to stuff versus eachother at the stores in your town - find the BEST sounding ones to your ear - and THEN go look them up to make sure they're reputable and built well etc. I almost bought the CDM 1NT and then N805 - and had it not been for a dealer saying listen to a couple of to me unknown brands in relatively plain Jane looking boxes I would have missed out on much better speakers for less money. Neither of the brands look as good though.

I'll tell you also that what is the best for $600-$1000.00 from a company isn't necessarily the best from the same company at $3,000-$10,000.00. Ie; While my choice for a Standmount is the B&W 602S3 in the $600.00 Range, which I recommend a lot to people, my recommendation at $2,000.00 probably won't be B&W - though one great thing about B&W is that I usually have them in the running at most price points.

[Pat D]

I'm finally graduating college this December. Anyway, I was told I could get a graduation gift of speakers and a 2-channel amp to match. I have perfect pitch and appreciate good music. Since I'm in college, I cannot afford much, so this would be my very first jump into I guess entry level hi-end.

The system I can get for graduation is a pair of B&W 804s with a Parasound Halo A23 amp to match.

Is this a good match? I think B&W's are pretty good. I like all kinds of music, including high energy techno, rap, rock, acoustic, country, and classical. I play piano, so I enjoy a good piano sonata, something my current system couldn't dream of producing properly. I already have a decent receiver, so I just am planning to add the speaker amp combo, as that's what I'm able to get as a gift.

Also, I've never heard B&W 804s, only the 603's, which I thought outclassed my current system with flying colors. But that's the price range I'm able to get as a gift, so I'll take it! :-)

The Parasound A23 power amplifier looks to be a very good product. There are quite a number of other good manufacturers but if you like this one, it should drive most speakers quite well. I'll mention Bryston because they have a 20 year guarantee on their electronics, and the Bryston 3B is quite powerful.

Speakers are more personal and you need to listen. I haven't heard the B & W 804. I did hear the 802 Nautilus some time ago and considering the price I was not impressed as the midrange seemed rather colored. I much preferred the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 2, which was the current model at the time, which was in the same room. RGA and I seem to have rather different tastes in speakers. RGA and I do agree that you should listen to a number of different speakers to see what you like.

When we were traveling, although that was not the purpose of the trip, I was able to hear some good speakers. As we have a big subwoofer, we looked mostly at smaller speakers, though also at some floorstanders.

I heard the B & W 705, which is a smallish standmount speaker and it is excellent. You could mate it with a subwoofer to get the deep bass and stay within your price range.

I have been favorably impressed with the PSB Stratus series speakers and own the PSB Stratus Minis. These seemed to me to compare very favorably with much more expensive speakers.

Both Paradigm and PSB have come out with new high end lines. I have heard the Paradigm Signature Series 2 and 8, and both seem excellent. I haven't heard any of the PSB Platinum series speakers, but they look extremely interesting, too.

I heard the Sonus Faber Concerto Grand Piano, which sounded very nice, and the Revel Performa M20.

A friend of mine has the Totem Mani-2 Signature speakers, a bit above your price range, and he drives them with Bryston 7Bs. They are a fairly difficult load, but the Parasound amp should be able to drive them satisfactorily. They are very nice speakers, and perhaps some of their somewhat less expensive models would be good, too.

Kef, Energy, Quad, Mirage, and a number of others could be on your audition list, as well.

[musicguy04]

Oh I definitely plan to look into other speakers, especially with the price range I've been given to work with. What do you mean by the B&W being "colored"? I'm a little new to more advanced speaker technology, but I'd like to learn. I already have a subwoofer, and it works fairly well, I think it definitely goes deep enough for music. One feature I like a lot about the Parasound A23 is the output loops (supposed to be used to hook up an other amp) that can be used to hook up a subwoofer.

I guess in the long run, I'm using this as a starting point to build a top-notch combined stereo and home theater system, therefore being able to add matching surrounds and center later on is important. As far as B&W goes, the Signature 805 is also in the price range (same as 804) but lacks bass. This really is a tough decision the more I think about it! I have a sub, but then again I would like a full range speaker. I like practically every type of music there is.

So let's say speaker A kicks wicked a** on rap & techno and has good tight bass, but isn't clear and detailed with classical & acoustic, this is no good. Then again, say speaker B plays classical better than anything, but all other music is dull and lifeless, this is no good. I guess I'm a little confused.

I'll check out the paradigms as there seem to be a ton of dealers in my area. My dad likes B&W's and is planning to get a system for himself as well. The Signature 805s look nice, but everything else in the series is so $$$, that even just out of college it'll take me a good while to put together a system. The 800 series is much more reasonable. But no, I'm not set on B&W, but the guy in the store said he only carries B&W's, since they're the best, but that's just his opinion. There are plenty of stores around.

[92135011]

Well, its hard to say...as one man once put it, bass is cheap - but good bass is hard to come by. I used to search around for a speaker that had good frequency responses so that I could encapture the essence of any type of music. But then I realize that most music does not even go that low. Techno and that reside in mid and lower-mid bass rather than deep bass so most speakers can handle it. Plus I also found that I was willing to give some bass up to get more of something else. I compared the B&W 600 series standmounts to the floor standers and, although the floorstanders had more bass impact, the midrange wasnt as good. I would rather have good midrange than good bass since most stuff resides in the midrange. Plus, our ears are most sensitive to the midrange at around 2khz I think it is.
The speaker I'm about to buy could be split into a lower model of that speaker and a decent subwoofer. But I wouldnt do that...cuz that would take out something else I like.

Jst me own opinion of course.
Look slowly

[hertz]

Have a listen to Dynaudio contour and confidence series before you decide. I once compared the B&W DM 602 to the Dynaudio audience 42 and the dyns won hands down.The contour and confidence series are in a different league. Check them out.You are for a surprise..
I recently had the pleasure of listening to a pair of contour series bokshef speakers connected to a silverline series (pre-power combo) from NAD and they blew me away with startling realism.I don't remember the model number of the speakers though.

[musicguy04]

92, just out of curiosity, what speaker are you about to buy? Also, just wondering, has anyone heard the B&W Signature 805? From a B&W perspective (as that's all I've really known so far.. wish I could say BMW perspective :-)), from looking at the specs, the N804 definitely has enough bass for me, so I wouldn't even need to use my sub. However, how much different is the sound?

Keep in mind that I've only heard B&W 603's (in addition to the Infinitys and Polks and Klipsch's in Best Buy), which I feel are better than anything I've heard. I do have perfect pitch, so details are always fun to hear. :-) Looking at the specs, the Signature 805's seem a tad lean on the bass, but with the amp I'm getting would do fine with my sub, which I can phase out at 50Hz. I'm just wondering if anyone's heard these. How much better are they than the N804's? I

Anyway, I'm in no hurry, I won't be getting these babies until 5 months from now. I'm home now, and have much more free time to look at these before I go back to school.

I've really enjoyed all your opinions. I just thought I'd throw my current system at you and see what you have to say about it:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2400 (newest addition.. this guy rocks!)
Speakers: Polk LS f/x (not bad.. have served me well for years)
Sub: Polk PSW-650 (has A LOT of bass)
Toshiba DVD/CD player
27" TV with component video input

Not bad for a start...especially for a college kid :-)

The plan is to put the polks as surrounds when I get the new speakers, and have true surround sound. I know they don't match, etc. etc. but it'll make do.

[Pat D]

Oh I definitely plan to look into other speakers, especially with the price range I've been given to work with. What do you mean by the B&W being "colored"? I'm a little new to more advanced speaker technology, but I'd like to learn. I already have a subwoofer, and it works fairly well, I think it definitely goes deep enough for music. One feature I like a lot about the Parasound A23 is the output loops (supposed to be used to hook up an other amp) that can be used to hook up a subwoofer.

I guess in the long run, I'm using this as a starting point to build a top-notch combined stereo and home theater system, therefore being able to add matching surrounds and center later on is important. As far as B&W goes, the Signature 805 is also in the price range (same as 804) but lacks bass. This really is a tough decision the more I think about it! I have a sub, but then again I would like a full range speaker. I like practically every type of music there is.

So let's say speaker A kicks wicked a** on rap & techno and has good tight bass, but isn't clear and detailed with classical & acoustic, this is no good. Then again, say speaker B plays classical better than anything, but all other music is dull and lifeless, this is no good. I guess I'm a little confused.

I'll check out the paradigms as there seem to be a ton of dealers in my area. My dad likes B&W's and is planning to get a system for himself as well. The Signature 805s look nice, but everything else in the series is so $$$, that even just out of college it'll take me a good while to put together a system. The 800 series is much more reasonable. But no, I'm not set on B&W, but the guy in the store said he only carries B&W's, since they're the best, but that's just his opinion. There are plenty of stores around.

"Colored" sound is an optical analogy. Say you take a photograph and the reds or greens or blues are too emphasized. The colors in the photograph don't look very natural. With speakers, too, when the frequency response is not even, then the speaker will be colored, imposing whatever it does on the program material. Since no speaker has a really flat frequency response over a wide dispersion area, all of them color the sound to some degree--but there are degrees and some speakers are very colored and others relatively neutral.

Just as in photography, the things we take pictures of are usually colored, but we don't usually want the camera to impose some other colors on it. So, music has sound colors, but the function of the speaker is to reproduce them, not unduly impose its own colors on the music. Here are the measurements indicating a colored speaker:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me...ce3a_mmdecapo/

The curves don't look pretty, but the speaker probably sounds pleasant enough most of the time, but accurate it is not. And I find accurate speakers sound good with most recordings, though not everyone does.

Of course, recordings are not all done the same way by any means, so they are colored. The great speaker researcher, Dr. Floyd Toole, points out a "circle of confusion" in that recordings are made using particular monitor speakers and then the recordings are used to evaluate speakers. If you want some lengthy reads, go to the White Papers on the Harman International site.

Anyway, with good recordings, everything in the stereo image should appear in its proper place and sound reasonably natural. The B & W 802 did not sound neutral to me using my usual test material.

Now, here is a link to the measurement results of another B & W speaker, one I did like, the B & W 705. There is a minor dip about 2.5 kHz, but the off axis energy seems to help make up for this (you have to realize that what you hear from a speaker includes both direct sound and sound reflected off the walls and floor and other room surfaces and also furniture). The bass response is quite good for a small speaker. I would want a subwoofer with it, but the same is true for most speakers.

Now, the best place for the main speakers is where they image well, usually well away from the walls. The best place for the deep bass reproduction is usually somewhere else, mostly in a corner, with a crossover below 80 hz. So, having sub-sat system usually makes a lot of sense.

[gonefishin]

Hi there musicguy


Looks like most of the above posters gave you decent advice. As others have said...your the only individual who can decide what is best for you. Just take your time and listen listen listen. Also, don't put too much weight in what others around here say...me included


Some smaller speakers you may want to check out (in addition to the 804's. )

• Silverline Speakers
  
• Coincident Super Eclipse
  
• AudioNote Speakers
  
• Vmps Speakers
  

...just to name a very few. Of these choices my preference would be for the vmps.



I also like horns (and/or H.E. speakers), but I can't think of any commercial offerings that are commonly available that I'd recommend. You do have some of the older vintage models (which some have great drivers)...but without modifications to either the horn, box or crossovers...they're a bit more colored than I really want. They still sound good...but


enjoy! (Where do you live...perhaps someone has some speakers you'd like to hear that lives in your area. All speakers we would like to audition aren't always sold in a shop near us. But, sometimes you can find an owner (of said speaker) that lives near you. It's worth a try...once you narrow things down a bit


have Fun!
dan

[chimera128]

My experience with B&W speakers is very limited. When I was searching for speakers I listened to their nautilus line and wasn't very impressed by them at all. They were being driven by various amps including rotel, marantz and mcintosh products. Not everyone likes bipolar or dipolar products but to me regular speakers sound bland. In this price range you have some good bipolar/dipolar products including ones by Martin Logan, Magenpan and Definitive Technology. I would try to go and listen to as many different types of speakers (not just different manufacturers) as you can so that you can discover what types of speakers fit your listening preferences. 5 months is a good amount of time to research your speakers properly. Congrats on graduating and hope you enjoy your present whatever it may end up being.