B&W 803N's

[koven]

i also think you should look away from b&w... that's where i started first, but i soon found out there are cheaper/lesser known speakers that sound just as good, if not BETTER than B&W's.... b&w's are excellent quality, but not excellent VALUE

you can find a lot of good deals on audiogon if you check frequently.. i agree with blackraven on the older thiels, those are on the warm side and sound excellent. of course, there are many other choices. but keep in mind their sensitivity, if it's fairly low, you won't be reaching full potential with a mediocre amp.

[manlystanley]

Well, the 803N's are going back on Friday. It was *REALLY* nice to have a week long home audition. Got the BJC cables. It really mellowed out the sound, but in the end it was still too bright. I'll be looking into all your suggestions and seeing what's next.

Anyways, you guys are really good. I've learned a lot in this process.

Best Regards,
Stan

[koven]

cool, what's next?

[frenchmon]

Well, the 803N's are going back on Friday. It was *REALLY* nice to have a week long home audition. Got the BJC cables. It really mellowed out the sound, but in the end it was still too bright. I'll be looking into all your suggestions and seeing what's next.

Anyways, you guys are really good. I've learned a lot in this process.

Best Regards,
Stan

IF they where still bright with the BJC, which in my opinion is on the warm side of things, then the character of the speaker is bright.

Let me ask you...did you find the monopriced cable made them brighter with harshness, and the BJC took away the harshness but the brightness remained?

The Monoprice made my Canton speakers harsh and overly bright. When I added the Analysis interconnects the overall sound was warm with lots of detail and clearer mids, especially in vocals, and when I added the Analysis Plus speaker wire It gave it more smoothness and bottom end punch.

frenchmon

[manlystanley]

Let me ask you...did you find the monopriced cable made them brighter with harshness, and the BJC took away the harshness but the brightness remained?
frenchmon

Hey Frenchy,
Your right on. It took away the harshness, but left the brightness. So what's next? I'd like to try out the Monitor Audio RX8's, but I've heard there are bright too. But, don't know if they are as bright as the 803N's though?

Funny, as time goes on I'm kind of loosing my taste for the dark side of things though...

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

cool, what's next?

I'm thinking about trying the Monitor Audio RX8's? They seem to be well thought of. In the mean time I'll hook back up my Maggie's.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Ajani]

The RX8 should be less bright than the B&Ws... They are actually supposed to be far less bright than the old RS series.... Give it a try... at least that way you'll have gained some more Hi-Fi experience (aka having fun playing around with different speakers) which is the arguably the best part of this hobby... The worst part being paying the credit card bills...

[frenchmon]

Hey Frenchy,
Your right on. It took away the harshness, but left the brightness. So what's next? I'd like to try out the Monitor Audio RX8's, but I've heard there are bright too. But, don't know if they are as bright as the 803N's though?

Funny, as time goes on I'm kind of loosing my taste for the dark side of things though...

Best Regards,
Stan

Stan. I've not heard the RX8's but I've listened to the RS6 side by side with the Paradigm Studio 60v6 and neither speaker was bright. They where not warm either. I found both speakers about the same with the 60's neutral and the RS6 fuller in the bass. Both speakers can be warmer paired with warm audio and speaker cables like BJC or even Analysis Plus. Check this dealer out for a very good price on Paradigm and Monitor Audio, but they are not authorized dealers. They buy-out stock and sell on their site. They do give a warranty .

Checkout their warranty policy here.http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...f91&info_id=12

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

stan...take a look at these http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...ducts_id=10362

I do think that is a very good price. I've not heard them but check with Blackraven.

[manlystanley]

The RX8 should be less bright than the B&Ws... They are actually supposed to be far less bright than the old RS series.... Give it a try... at least that way you'll have gained some more Hi-Fi experience (aka having fun playing around with different speakers) which is the arguably the best part of this hobby... The worst part being paying the credit card bills...

Great advice about the RX8's. Also, you are so right teh bills is the worst part. Having he 803D's for a week was great--without having to pay for them.....

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

stan...take a look at these http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...ducts_id=10362

I do think that is a very good price. I've not heard them but check with Blackraven.

Both speakers look great. I've got to figure out how to get a system down in my listening room for a several day evaluation??? We'll see what comes up.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

I havent heard those new PSB Imagine's but the reviews on them were good. The review said there was some trickle down from the Synchrony's but that they are more suited to a smaller room.

I would bet my last dollar Stan that some of the brightness problem is that Emotiva amp and possibly the Cd player. I've read many reviews on Emotiva amps on other forums where people are saying that the Emotiva's lean on the bright side of neutral. Obviously every one does not feel that way but there are too many people claiming it for me not to believe it.

I'm sure that the Emotiva's are a good amp but they probably need careful system matching.

[manlystanley]

I havent heard those new PSB Imagine's but the reviews on them were good. The review said there was some trickle down from the Synchrony's but that they are more suited to a smaller room.

I would bet my last dollar Stan that some of the brightness problem is that Emotiva amp and possibly the Cd player. I've read many reviews on Emotiva amps on other forums where people are saying that the Emotiva's lean on the bright side of neutral. Obviously every one does not feel that way but there are too many people claiming it for me not to believe it.

I'm sure that the Emotiva's are a good amp but they probably need careful system matching.

Hello BR,
Really good point. Would the Emotiva work with the PSB Imagine or the RX8?

Thanks,
Stan

[blackraven]

Here's a review on the PSB's- http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/S...agine-T-Review

I have the Monitor Audio S1 which is 2 generations back from the RXS line. I found the tweeter to be laid back and a warmer sound, but the RS and RXS series use new drives.

I think that you will get deeper bass with the MA RX8 but the PSB may offer a more refined sound. You should give the guys at www.saturdayaudio.com a call because they sell both brands of speakers and they might be able to steer you in the right direction with these 2 speaker lines. Another line of speakers to consider is Vienna Acoustics. Very nice speaker line with a good sound. I've heard some of their really high end stuff. It looks and sounds good. Best Buy Magnolia carries some of their gear.

Stan, you should consider taking home a Marantz SA8003 SACDP and/or a tube preamp for an audition to see if it warms things up. The you will know if it is your equipment that is the problem. (my bet is that that Marantz will take care of some of the problem) That way you wont be as limited in speaker choices if you decide to get new speakers.. You might even like the 1.6's.

And I hate to bring it up again but a tube buffer may be the cheapest temporary fix.

[manlystanley]

Here's a review on the PSB's- http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/S...agine-T-Review

I have the Monitor Audio S1 which is 2 generations back from the RXS line. I found the tweeter to be laid back and a warmer sound, but the RS and RXS series use new drives.

I think that you will get deeper bass with the MA RX8 but the PSB may offer a more refined sound. You should give the guys at www.saturdayaudio.com a call because they sell both brands of speakers and they might be able to steer you in the right direction with these 2 speaker lines. Another line of speakers to consider is Vienna Acoustics. Very nice speaker line with a good sound. I've heard some of their really high end stuff. It looks and sounds good. Best Buy Magnolia carries some of their gear.

Stan, you should consider taking home a Marantz SA8003 SACDP and/or a tube preamp for an audition to see if it warms things up. The you will know if it is your equipment that is the problem. (my bet is that that Marantz will take care of some of the problem) That way you wont be as limited in speaker choices if you decide to get new speakers.. You might even like the 1.6's.

And I hate to bring it up again but a tube buffer may be the cheapest temporary fix.

Hello BR,
I'll do as your suggestion and call up the Saturday Audio folks. My situation, is that I think my $80 pre-amp is failing. Every once in a while one channel gets weak. I think I've tracked it down to the pre-amp, but am not sure. So, I'm thinking that in the next year or so a newer preamp will be in the works. Then I'll think about the warmer sound.

While I think about newer speakers, I'm going to give the Maggie another try with my new BJ cables. We'll see what I think about it. As far as speakers, I kind of like the following deals, what do you think of them? I know there sold, but I'd look for something like them:

1.) I say a PSB Synchrony Two floor standing speakers that went for $1900 (MSRP $3800)

2.) http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-8-RX-center-r

Best Regards,
Stan


BTW: My 8 year old is sitting on my lap and wants to send you a smiley face:

[blackraven]

Stan, I bought 2 pairs of BJC's in the last couple of months to replace my monster cables andI found them to have more detail, slightly less bass, but tighter bass but they are a little brighter and they bring the treble forward. Hopefully in your system it will tone down the brightness.

Stan, take a look at this Vincent Hybrid Preamp- http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

http://www.avguide.com/review/vincen...ower-amplifier

[RGA]

A speaker you may want to consider that is way way off the beaten track but IMO betters the PSB and Monitor Audio is from a company called Sonist. normally I don't like ribbon tweeters but this one works and is $2,195 called the Recital 3 and is a new floorstanding speaker from Sonist. What is interesting is that they are a Ribbon horn design and at a stupid low price for the sound on tap. While not perfect they're more perfect than probably anything I've heard in this price range.

And they can be run with very few watts which means that you have far far more options on your future amplifier choices. While not everyone will buy a 3 watt SET amplifier it is nice to have the option should in 5 years you decide to try one. They're partnering $700 or so Glow audio tube amps made very nice music. And their cabinetry was quite nice to boot. They've been getting terrific reviews and it's hard not to be impressed when you factor in the price. http://www.sonist.com/SONIST_REVIEWS_SHOWREPORTS.html

[manlystanley]

Stan, I bought 2 pairs of BJC's in the last couple of months to replace my monster cables andI found them to have more detail, slightly less bass, but tighter bass but they are a little brighter and they bring the treble forward. Hopefully in your system it will tone down the brightness.

Stan, take a look at this Vincent Hybrid Preamp- http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

http://www.avguide.com/review/vincen...ower-amplifier

Hey BR,
Great pointer. Here's a deal I wished I had not missed: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl_s...ube&1260927442

I'm thinking that I'll go for a more transparent speaker, then eventually get a warmer pre-amp.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

A speaker you may want to consider that is way way off the beaten track but IMO betters the PSB and Monitor Audio is from a company called Sonist. normally I don't like ribbon tweeters but this one works and is $2,195 called the Recital 3 and is a new floorstanding speaker from Sonist. What is interesting is that they are a Ribbon horn design and at a stupid low price for the sound on tap. While not perfect they're more perfect than probably anything I've heard in this price range.

And they can be run with very few watts which means that you have far far more options on your future amplifier choices. While not everyone will buy a 3 watt SET amplifier it is nice to have the option should in 5 years you decide to try one. They're partnering $700 or so Glow audio tube amps made very nice music. And their cabinetry was quite nice to boot. They've been getting terrific reviews and it's hard not to be impressed when you factor in the price. http://www.sonist.com/SONIST_REVIEWS_SHOWREPORTS.html

Interesting design. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[manlystanley]

So, I dropped off the 803N's. Sorry to see them go, But, at $2,300 I'd need to add a lot to my system to tame the brightness. I just cannot justify that at this time. So, I'm off looking for 'speaker nirvana' again.

But, for what it's worth, what I've learned:

1.) It's of limited help to listen to a speaker at a different location and system. Once you get it home, it sound so different.

2.) I should have considered the 'brightness' of my XPA before I bought it.

3.) My system is now bass week. I needed to put the 803's 5 inch from the wall to bring out the bass. At the owners how, he had them several feet (at least) from the wall.

4.) IT was a really positive experience to bring in a $6,000 speaker and try it out on my system. It gives me a more realistic view of what a speaker can or cannot do for my system.

5.) Finally, I'll be moving on from B&W's. I loved my 684's, but if the 803's don't meet my needs, I doubt that the 700's or CM's would either.

6.) I'm going to hook up my Maggies and give them another shot. I can tell that I'm much less sensitive to brightness. So, my taste is changing.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

Stan, consider using a sub with the Maggies. The Martin Logan Abyss and Dynamo's match up well and are very musical for 2ch music. You can find them used on audiogon for a good price. I've also seen the Abyss for about $450 on closeout, thats about a discount of $450 off.

You should try using your HT sub wtih the Maggies, crossed over at about 40-50Hz to see how it sounds with a sub and see if you like them better.

[manlystanley]

Stan, consider using a sub with the Maggies. The Martin Logan Abyss and Dynamo's match up well and are very musical for 2ch music. You can find them used on audiogon for a good price. I've also seen the Abyss for about $450 on closeout, thats about a discount of $450 off.

You should try using your HT sub wtih the Maggies, crossed over at about 40-50Hz to see how it sounds with a sub and see if you like them better.

Oh how cruel life is....... I'm teleworking today and my maggies were vibrating like crazy. I was afraid that I'd damage the Mylar so I'm listening to:

-- $50 denon receiver.
-- Klisph in wall speakers.

Now that I've gotten used to them, there not all that bad. I think I'm to picky sometimes.

Before the maggies went dark, I listened to them a long time. They sounded really good. But, I think that for my family watching movies, it will be a problem. Then also the 3 inch sweet spot is problematic. I felt funny having some of family describing the great imaging I'm hearing and they have no idea what I'm taking about.

Tomorrow I'll be trying out a RX6 at a local store (They do not have RX8's). I'll try to find a local PSB selling as well.

I've read that the RS8's were way to bright as the tweeter had problems. But that the RX8 sounds very full and real nice. The problem with the PSB's is they are narrow and my younger kids are rambunctious. So, I'd be concerns about them knocking them over.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

I use my Maggies for HT use and no one complains about the small sweet spot. In fact we have chairs to the sides and a sofa in the center. I don't really notice any drop off sitting to the sides. I guess I'm too involved in the movie to notice.

You should give some Martin Logans a listen. There are always deals on used ML's.