Auditioned Paradigm Studio 100 v3 today

[RGA]

PATD

Umm we all bandy about terms of excellent or not as good etc - and there is no proof that what you like best is excellent. And AN's website tells you which States and which dealers carry Audio Note - granted their site is not the greatest in set-up(Because they don't put money into it) but the information is there nevertheless. DRCOPE on AudioAsylum I believe has the complete dealer locater list.

Geoffcin
"Actually it's VERY true, especially with the overpriced AN speaker line."

Have fun with that belief.

[Pat D]

PATD

Umm we all bandy about terms of excellent or not as good etc - and there is no proof that what you like best is excellent. And AN's website tells you which States and which dealers carry Audio Note - granted their site is not the greatest in set-up(Because they don't put money into it) but the information is there nevertheless. DRCOPE on AudioAsylum I believe has the complete dealer locater list.

Geoffcin
"Actually it's VERY true, especially with the overpriced AN speaker line."

Have fun with that belief.

Well, by the same token, there is no proof that the speakers you like best are excellent, either. I have learned that your preferences in speakers seem to be very different from mine. Of course, I have never maintained that the speakers I prefer are the best.

Some months ago, while were in travel status, I looked at the Audio Note site and I didn't find all those dealers, so I asked the US distributor where I might go No reply. Now I'm at home and now I can easily find the dealer list, but there's nothing very close.

[RGA]

Patd

Chances are you probably won't like them - precisely because you don't generally like what I like. And AN does not provide the measurements you want - they don't even tell you the watt ratings. I thought that was something you said a long time ago that without measurements you would not waste your time - they were your way to root out what you didn't like before listening - that's what you said for the De Capo if memory serves. The AN sounds nothing really like the De Capo the midrange is far more front and center than the De Capo -- err the de Capo's midrange is far more pushed back - take your pick.

Audio Note was in the process and still is in moving their company and they are being picked up slowly by US distributors as far as I know. But, some companies like Quad have also mentioned a great aversion to metal tweeters when designing speakers - I agree because that is EXACTLY what I hear when listening to such speakers - Many who don't have the aversion to such speakers will save some money no doubt.

[Pat D]

Patd

Chances are you probably won't like them - precisely because you don't generally like what I like. And AN does not provide the measurements you want - they don't even tell you the watt ratings. I thought that was something you said a long time ago that without measurements you would not waste your time - they were your way to root out what you didn't like before listening - that's what you said for the De Capo if memory serves. The AN sounds nothing really like the De Capo the midrange is far more front and center than the De Capo -- err the de Capo's midrange is far more pushed back - take your pick.

Audio Note was in the process and still is in moving their company and they are being picked up slowly by US distributors as far as I know. But, some companies like Quad have also mentioned a great aversion to metal tweeters when designing speakers - I agree because that is EXACTLY what I hear when listening to such speakers - Many who don't have the aversion to such speakers will save some money no doubt.

You certainly manage to read a whole lot of things into a few simple remarks. Let's try to get the logic straight. To set up a list of speakers for auditioning means that I will go looking for those speakers. It does not mean that I won't listen others I come across. I would even try out the De Capos if I came across them, even if just in the hope that I could tell you what I thought of them. In the second place, I can't very well use measurements as a screening tool if I don't have them, can I? Most speaker manufacturers don't supply measurements for their speakers, but a number of magazines do give useful measurements of speakers including Stereophile, the Audio Critic, Audio Ideas Guide, Soundstage (on selected ones) and Sound & Vision. Unfortunately, their methodologies are not the same, so comparisons can be tricky.

In fact, when I was traveling, I emailed the A/N distributor asking where to go, but got no reply. So I certainly did not exclude them from my audition list, except on availability. Now, I must say that so far I have not been overly impressed with the things Peter Q. says, but he may well make some very good speakers. I am not overly impressed by the things Totem says, either, but their Mani-2 is really a fine sounding speaker.

I submit that you do not have a logical basis for relating some faults you find in speakers to their having metal tweeters. One could argue the problem is how the tweeter is integrated with the woofer/midrange. The problem there is that the tweeter, being smaller, has generally a much wider dispersion in the crossover range than the woofer/midrange does, thus producing a "flare" in the power response, to use John Atkinson's terminology.

[RGA]

You certainly manage to read a whole lot of things into a few simple remarks. Let's try to get the logic straight. To set up a list of speakers for auditioning means that I will go looking for those speakers. It does not mean that I won't listen others I come across. I would even try out the De Capos if I came across them, even if just in the hope that I could tell you what I thought of them. In the second place, I can't very well use measurements as a screening tool if I don't have them, can I? Most speaker manufacturers don't supply measurements for their speakers, but a number of magazines do give useful measurements of speakers including Stereophile, the Audio Critic, Audio Ideas Guide, Soundstage (on selected ones) and Sound & Vision. Unfortunately, their methodologies are not the same, so comparisons can be tricky.

In fact, when I was traveling, I emailed the A/N distributor asking where to go, but got no reply. So I certainly did not exclude them from my audition list, except on availability. Now, I must say that so far I have not been overly impressed with the things Peter Q. says, but he may well make some very good speakers. I am not overly impressed by the things Totem says, either, but their Mani-2 is really a fine sounding speaker.

I submit that you do not have a logical basis for relating some faults you find in speakers to their having metal tweeters. One could argue the problem is how the tweeter is integrated with the woofer/midrange. The problem there is that the tweeter, being smaller, has generally a much wider dispersion in the crossover range than the woofer/midrange does, thus producing a "flare" in the power response, to use John Atkinson's terminology.

Sorry didn't mean to read anything in but you said measurements were a screening out tool so I assumed that meant a screening out of the audition list tool.

The faults I found I never said was logical - I actually go and listen with good equipment in pretty good to very good rooms...it's experiencial basis. Not all metal tweeters are bad -- and maybe they are not bad at all by themselves - maybe you are correct and it't the implementation that is poor. SO far with few exceptions I have not heard them Implemented correctly(or the tweeter is drawing too much attention to itself).

As for Peter you will not be the first nor the last to disagreewith what he says - had i read the web-site before I heard the product I would have passed them over. The problem is I've heard his inferior SET amps and his inferior CD technology and his old fashioned inferior speaker designs - non slim line non bevelled edges to reducestanding waves etc and it bested the more expensive B&W model Nautilus with 8 top of the line Musical FIdelity power amps. So it is very very hard for a layperson not to believe what he has to say - technically inferior but it does not sound that way to me.

Of course this may also sound like the tubes versus SS debate where both sides scream accuracy versus 2nd order harmonics blah blah blah.

The prolem with all of it is is that even when the measurer at Stereophile grumbled about the De Capo he was surprised that the reviewer didn't notice this or that about the sound - UHF listens first then measures and confirms what they heard. If you don't hear it then something wasn't measured correctly - and even then what stereophile shows as a weakness was and is viewed as a huge strength of the speaker??????

I chose not to get them simply because the depth of soundstage seemed a bit imposed on all recordings - that to me was better than all the speakers using metal tweeters that added detail = distortion or adding something not on the recordings but something that sounds cool ---- for a while anyway.

[Pat D]

Sorry didn't mean to read anything in but you said measurements were a screening out tool so I assumed that meant a screening out of the audition list tool.

The faults I found I never said was logical - I actually go and listen with good equipment in pretty good to very good rooms...it's experiencial basis. Not all metal tweeters are bad -- and maybe they are not bad at all by themselves - maybe you are correct and it't the implementation that is poor. SO far with few exceptions I have not heard them Implemented correctly(or the tweeter is drawing too much attention to itself).

As for Peter you will not be the first nor the last to disagreewith what he says - had i read the web-site before I heard the product I would have passed them over. The problem is I've heard his inferior SET amps and his inferior CD technology and his old fashioned inferior speaker designs - non slim line non bevelled edges to reducestanding waves etc and it bested the more expensive B&W model Nautilus with 8 top of the line Musical FIdelity power amps. So it is very very hard for a layperson not to believe what he has to say - technically inferior but it does not sound that way to me.

Of course this may also sound like the tubes versus SS debate where both sides scream accuracy versus 2nd order harmonics blah blah blah.

The prolem with all of it is is that even when the measurer at Stereophile grumbled about the De Capo he was surprised that the reviewer didn't notice this or that about the sound - UHF listens first then measures and confirms what they heard. If you don't hear it then something wasn't measured correctly - and even then what stereophile shows as a weakness was and is viewed as a huge strength of the speaker??????

I chose not to get them simply because the depth of soundstage seemed a bit imposed on all recordings - that to me was better than all the speakers using metal tweeters that added detail = distortion or adding something not on the recordings but something that sounds cool ---- for a while anyway.

The logical fault was concluding that the problems you heard were due to the fact that the tweeters were metal, that is, you assigned a cause for what you experienced. Meanwhile, the measurements offer another explanation, something that actually has something to do with the sound emanating from the speaker. Then, you turn around and point out that there have been metal tweeters which did not bother you, although without naming the speakers, so you contradict your claim about metal tweeters.

In fact, in his review of the De Capo, Art Dudley did notice the effects of the midrange humps and said so quite clearly:

"This speaker never lost every iota of that hooty coloration, though, leaving me to think of its response as very slightly lumpier than the ideal, with here a midrange boost that made violins sound a little thicker than they are, and there a notch that robbed voices of a bit of texture—that which gives keening voices their keen. "

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...3a/index1.html

John Atkinson noted that Art Dudley found much to admire about the speaker, but he remarked:

"But oh, look at the enormous ridges of resonant energy between 600Hz and 1kHz. I am surprised that AD wasn't bothered more by this behavior."

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...3a/index4.html

I, too, am surprised. Mr. Atkinson didn't say Art didn't notice them at all, because he did. But anyway, his speaker preferences seem to be different from mine, though he does like the Quads.

[RGA]

The logical fault was concluding that the problems you heard were due to the fact that the tweeters were metal, that is, you assigned a cause for what you experienced. Meanwhile, the measurements offer another explanation, something that actually has something to do with the sound emanating from the speaker. Then, you turn around and point out that there have been metal tweeters which did not bother you, although without naming the speakers, so you contradict your claim about metal tweeters.

In fact, in his review of the De Capo, Art Dudley did notice the effects of the midrange humps and said so quite clearly:

"This speaker never lost every iota of that hooty coloration, though, leaving me to think of its response as very slightly lumpier than the ideal, with here a midrange boost that made violins sound a little thicker than they are, and there a notch that robbed voices of a bit of texture—that which gives keening voices their keen. "

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...3a/index1.html

John Atkinson noted that Art Dudley found much to admire about the speaker, but he remarked:

"But oh, look at the enormous ridges of resonant energy between 600Hz and 1kHz. I am surprised that AD wasn't bothered more by this behavior."

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...3a/index4.html

I, too, am surprised. Mr. Atkinson didn't say Art didn't notice them at all, because he did. But anyway, his speaker preferences seem to be different from mine, though he does like the Quads.

First - there is not a speaker made using a metal tweeter that I would want to own. There are many that are done better than others however. I prefer the N805 to many - but it has a midrange suckout and a clearly distinct separation between drivers - it's better thant he paradigms of the world but given the huge price increases it's not better enough to justify itself to me.

Art is hearing a bit of what I hear - and most owners of the speakers hear and they like that sound. I didn't like enogh to want to own it however in the end. When I fisrt listened and on several listenings the De Capo stood out because it didn''t sound conjested thin and shrill like most speakers and all speakers below that price using a metal driver. It had balls could fill a room had a smooth non fatiguing treble had decay - and a huge front to back soundstage. When what you compare it too is veritable kaka then it stands out as best and you ignore the fact that gee voices seem to come out a bit far back on a lot of recordings and there is a touch of thickness on organ and piano - and probably Bass guitar etc. Mid range bloom is far more acceptable than brittle highs to me - the former is less egregious the latter immediately drops it off my list. And Art despite the flaws he notes loved the speakers - nothing is perfect if it were then they would not make a higher end model - jeez just like Paradigm and Audio Note and B&W etc.

In the end it's which flawed speaker do I like better and can live with more - for me the De Capo more so than N805 or Veritas 2.1 etc - but I wanted a speaker that would retain a non fatiguing tweeter (or treble response however created) had serious bass and in room dynamic power to rival a lot of good floorstanders and a voice region that was crystal clear - the De Capo was pushed back a bit and made me have to strain just a touch to make out dialog - while the N805 and standmounts from Paradigm, Energy had no such trouble some voices were pushed too far out and didn't sound "of a piece" on instrumentals or vocals. Where Peter says they sound nasal he IMO is dead right - they sound small and polite and beam.

As I say if you love that sound then no need to look for Audio Note - it's when you've owned those and or heard them for numerous hours and decide that you dislike them because the measurements and JA of the world tell you how great X is when actually X sounds like a piece of shi! that you decide to go and listen - and driver integration is mentioned a lot lately because the marketing companies know their products like B&W heve been taking a beating on forums lately - I especially noticed it on the 705 review - and Stereophile writers hang out on AA - interesting coincidence.

By the way This is not to say one would not choose the N805 over the De Capo - because obviously you are the type to find the De Capo's weakness more egregious than lack of cohesiveness in the upper midrange. I believe you own the 100 no? So I know it doesn't bother you much.