Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43

    Anyone here own a HKSUB 12 or JBL PB12

    Does anyone here own or know anyone that owns a Harman Kardan HKSUB 12 or a JBL PB10 or PB12? I am looking to get a sub soon and don't want to spend a ton but I want something that will compliment my system (Yamaha HTR-5560 reciever and JBL ND310 II main speakers)

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Registered Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    Avoid subs that sound like "1 note"

    I've no experience with the h/k, but the JBL is pretty iffy. If you could find an Athena P400 (BestBuy.com has them, but check for local retailer) I think that is $400. Really nice for money, not muddy.

    Just play some music. If the woofer only seems to play one note well, then go on to the next one. Unfortunately, you will pass up a lot of famous name, really bad subs. Fortunately, when you find a sub this way, it's a much better sub.

    Space

  3. #3
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    What about the HKSUB 12

  4. #4
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759

    look i dont think any will cut it

    If you buy a $200 subwoofer, when calibrated right, it will probably hold back your main speakers. It won't seem like your main speakers are that loud, but the sub is distorting and mainly holding back your speakers from going any louder. This is what happened to me when I bought $150 no name sub. I sold that"sub" in 3 months. I say just keep your main speakers as Large and get another $200. it shouldn't be that hard, and you'll be surprised how much more performance you could get out of the HSU VTF-2 or the Adire Rava. You'll most likely end up wasting your money buying a "sub" at this price. If you absolutely cannot spend anymore, this is the Only sub i would go with in this price range.

    http://www.dealtime.com/xKW-Bic_Amer...007143/GS.html

    BIC makes decent stuff for cheap. This still won't give you nearly as good performance as the two subs I listed, this is only if you CANNOT spend a penny more.

    -Joey

  5. #5
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    I really don't see how a JBL or HK sub could hold my system back especially since I already have JBL main speakers. I know they do quite a bit of research on their products. Rather than just saying something isn't good, can you explain why it isn't good (give me the specifics). When it all boils down, the circuitry inside these amps are very similar in design........explain to me, technically (I am studying electrical engineering so don't hold anything back) why a JBL or HK sub is no good compaired to others (and don't compare it to some outrageously expensive sub b/c that is not a fair comparison).

  6. #6
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    L.I., NY
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by bullion
    I really don't see how a JBL or HK sub could hold my system back especially since I already have JBL main speakers. I know they do quite a bit of research on their products. Rather than just saying something isn't good, can you explain why it isn't good (give me the specifics). When it all boils down, the circuitry inside these amps are very similar in design........explain to me, technically (I am studying electrical engineering so don't hold anything back) why a JBL or HK sub is no good compaired to others (and don't compare it to some outrageously expensive sub b/c that is not a fair comparison).
    In very technical terms it's about how low it goes and how clean it plays without distortion. It should play notes and not sounds. It should have impact when asked to do so. I just went from a Klipsch KSW-12 to an SVS 20-39 PCi and the differences are evident in both music and HT. Better intergration and more impact. What I think This Guy meant is that a sub not up to task will do more to distract than enhance what you hear now. If you want to enjoy the kind of wooferage people are talking about it won't be found in market entry level price points. Entry level from some compainies are a another ball game.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    Actually, I am more interested in what makes the JBL and HK sub inferior.........take it to the next step......let's talk MOSFET transistor amplifier concepts.

  8. #8
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by bullion
    I really don't see how a JBL or HK sub could hold my system back especially since I already have JBL main speakers. I know they do quite a bit of research on their products. Rather than just saying something isn't good, can you explain why it isn't good (give me the specifics). When it all boils down, the circuitry inside these amps are very similar in design........explain to me, technically (I am studying electrical engineering so don't hold anything back) why a JBL or HK sub is no good compaired to others (and don't compare it to some outrageously expensive sub b/c that is not a fair comparison).
    Look, Basically all subs in this price range are gonna sound very similar, and yes their amplifiers are very similar if not exactly the same. I wouldn't go with the JBL sub because it had some failure issues I read in some reviews. I never heard of the HK sub, I didn't even know they started making speakers, so I wouldn't by anything without much of a reputation even though HK is a connected company to JBL? I'd go with the BIC basically because they have a good repuation for building good stuff for cheap, i own one of their center channels and it performs great for the $20 i got for it. They also use the very efficient BASH amplifier, the same technology is used in much higher priced subwoofers as well. to me this just makes sense to buy this speaker from this company. I think you're a little biased to JBL just because you like the way your JBL front speakers sound. Subwoofers are a whole different type of speaker. They can make or break a system. IF you buy the JBL or HK subwoofer im afraid you will be very disapointed, hell you may even be disapointed with the BIC I reccomended. Unless you go used or DIY $200 isnt gonna get you anywhere (IMO).

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Registered Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    You are going in too deep, it's more simple

    It's due to the enclosure tuning. Most (unfortunately) subwoofers are tuned pretty high to increase the output. Not unlike a bandpass box for the car. The downside is that the laws of physics dictate a 24dB per octave rolloff from the tuning point. If you have an enclosure tuned at 50Hz, it will only have about 1/6 of the output capability at 25Hz, but it will play really loud at the store and boom really loud on movies. So with the subwoofers low pass filter (crossover) pinching in on the top, and the laws of physics on the bottom, you have one narrow band of usable bass...boomy, awful, one note bass. That is the problem with the JBL sub. I've no experience with the h/k, but it will probably be fairly similar.

    Now, the upside is that it does have a lot of output, so it will get pretty loud in a normal sized room, but will sound kind of muddy.

    Good enough?

    Space

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Windsor Ont. Canada
    Posts
    53

    As This Guy said

    JBL had a serious amp problem. I know I owned one and it lasted one year. Read the reviews and you will see how many people had problems with that particular sub. I moved up to a Mirage BPSS 210 and wow what a difference, of course the price was staggering at the time but I think it is a big part of your home theater system.Good Luck and happy hunting.
    Always check the classfieds here to see what people are selling.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    Fair enough. I figured it had to do with the enclosures. A couple people recomended a BIC subwoofer. Any model in particular and where should I get it? Also, is this sub going to be able to take a beating if I play my music loud?

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    I found a decent looking BIC 10" subwoofer on ebay.....check it out

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3275


    Is this any good?

  13. #13
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759

    ehh

    It looks so so. I still think you'd be better off with the BIC V-1215 with the 325 watt amp and 12" driver.

    http://www.nextag.com/All~bic+americ...eyszmainz5-htm

    Shop around online for a dealer that gets good reviews. Etronics.com used to have them and they are a really good dealer for electronics. You can email them for when one comes in stock. Good Luck.

    -Joey

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Registered Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    19

    I've owned the PB12 for almost 3 years now...

    And have been exceedingly pleased with it. I understand some people have had problems with the onboard amp going out, but mine runs 3-4 hours a day every day and I've not had a single problem.

    In terms of how it sounds, I love it. It's paired with 5 matching Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 speakers in my surround setup and the sub integrates with them wonderfully. I use it for music and home theater and it does both well. For home theater the power and punch it delivers are impressive. It'll shake the walls and sent the dog running for the basement. For music it provides tight, clean bass and I love it. I've listened to all sorts of systems in all sorts of price ranges and I've got no intention of upgrading.

    Lots of people feel the need to bash JBL because they market through the big box stores, but notice that none of these people have actually owned the sub or heard it hooked up to decent components in an acoustically friendly environment. I've lived with the thing for 3 years and love it. I recommend it highly and suggest you give it a try. For the price I don't think you'll find anything better and I know you can spend significantly more for less.

  15. #15
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    Rhino.....what sub are you recomending, the BIC?

  16. #16
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    I think as of right now I am considering the following three models of subwoofers:

    Polk Audio PSW303

    or

    BIC V-1215

    or

    JBL E150P (new model....front firing woofer....supposed to be much better than older models)


    What would your pick be? Thanks

  17. #17
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    Hey, I just came across another BIC subwoofer....

    How does the BIC D-1210R compare to the BIC V-1215

  18. #18
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759

    looks alright

    the V1215 does have a better amp, but both of them should sound very similar. You can find the v1215 for the same price or cheaper then that. But then you mentioned that JBL and that retails for $350. If you could add another 50 for $400 you could get the Adire Rava and you'll never have to worry about the sub again.

    http://adireaudio.com/home_audio/lou...eries/rava.htm

    You see, all the "subwoofers" around $200 are very questionable, I don't even know if the BIC will sound good, Im just judging it by the specs, and the same thing with most of the other subwoofers. With the Rava there's no question you'll be happy with it, it not only has great specs, but rave reviews from many people. I'm sorry if Im pressuring you into paying more, but it's just a fact in todays world you really can't get a good subwoofer for $200. Good luck with the search man.

    -Joey

  19. #19
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    43
    Where can you buy one of these Adire Rava subwoofers. Also, maybe I should mention that this subwoofer will be mainly used for music and I am also in college so I don'r expect to have the best of the best at this point.

  20. #20
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759

    go to the link...

    that I provided. You buy it right off their website. The Rava is best suited for music due to it's sealed design making it much tighter then cheaper ported subs. This subwoofer sounds perfect for you.

    -Joey

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest AudioReview Articles

Hot Deals

Latest News

AudioReview on Facebook