For all you B&W fans...

[theaudiohobby]

Twisting your words..you are so funny...enjoy the halo of your rig..

[RGA]

You most certainly can tell if something sounds good or not within three tracks --

Flo -- you hate Bose right most of us do -- Did you need to listen for 4000 hours before you could TELL it was not very good -- it should take a person one song to tell if it's going to fall into the good camp or the camp you don't want. That does not mean you can tell every subtle iss with the speaker in 3 tracks but if it's three good tracks of piano instrumental/orchestral and vocal it can say much. I have heard a few speakers do these very well incidentally and fall apart at other things and have heard speakers do far better at amplified rock - there is vocal thoughout though.

As for the idiotic notion of speakers lasting a long time -- well yes panels have been around 35 years -- cone speakers have been around what since 1925? And while you try to imply that Panels are better because they;ve been around for a long time -- have the SAME panels been around that long? The K-horn has been around close to 50 years and it's basically the exact same speaker it always was and it CONTINUES to sell. I like the K-horn but it's not PERFECT and neither is a panel and neither is Audio Note (because I know it will be addressed from you so I'll head it off first).

The K-horn to this day that many other speakers just don;t accomplish and it is a royal pain to set up and drive properly -- it can sound shouty and highly uneven --soemthing that can with a significant amount of effort largely be resolved to the point where it's a rather smooth quite well balanced sounding speaker. I've heard it in just two set-ups in my time.

All of the big panel makers either went belly-up or changed and improved their panels (or from what I understand from many Quad owners) the new Quads have went to appearances over substance which is why the ESL 57 is widely considered the very best sounding Quad ever built. And it interests me largely because the original Sugden A21a 10 watt class A amp was a very popular match for this panel - so that means it's not a power pig. Quad is now not a one man vision operation though so that may be why many of the old Quad owners are less than pleased with the new ones.

Perfect sound? Please

[Woochifer]

Instead of quoting me and twisting the points why dont you contact me over MSN (overture3@hotmail.com) and we can chat about it. I can even call you and i can tell you exactly why this box vs. planars is senseless. You are welcome to come on over like many have before and experience a world reference and what the definition of "real" is. :-)
Even if you choose not to, it wont hurt since you dont know what your missing ;-)

"Real" is what's actually real -- i.e. the actual instrument, voice, or sound event. Everything else is a reproduction, and my own experiences with the Apogee Full Range and Duettas did not bring to mind the terms "world reference" or "real" whenever I heard them.

[theaudiohobby]

I will admit it, I have never head one but will not bother, there are other panel speakers that suit my taste and have less onerous operating requirements. Strikes me as odd a speaker (the top models I think) whose claim to fame is that it deeps below 1 ohm, a masochistic streak, yikes , I can sidestep that with zero penalty. .

[Florian]

I have never imlpied that they are better because they have been around for a long time. Fact is, and you can read the reviews that the big Apogees where always tested as the worlds best. And they are only as good as the electronics. If you heard a Fullrange (which is very rare) and didnt like it than its either the electronics or you like a colored sound. Which if you have Maggies or boxes, like. Easy as that.

What sounds real. That shouldnt be a question. Its easy. If i play a Violin (my friends GF plays a 4 Million Dollar Stradovari in the Zurich Symphoni Prchestra and if she plays in the room and we record that and play it on the system and it sounds the same than that is REAL. Something boxes will never reach.

But nevermind, i tried to help you all. But go ahead and dumpb 1000's into worthless boxes. I dont really care anymore. Same as the comment from RGA that they are soo cheap to make Just no clue.

Its not difficult to drive a 1ohm load and there are many amps that can do it.

[Florian]

As for my closing words, you guys mix up "quantity" and "quality".

[theaudiohobby]

As for my closing words, you guys mix up "quantity" and "quality".

ha..ha...from the AR purveyor of quality sound.

[theaudiohobby]

I have never imlpied that they are better because they have been around for a long time. Fact is, and you can read the reviews that the big Apogees where always tested as the worlds best. And they are only as good as the electronics. If you heard a Fullrange (which is very rare) and didnt like it than its either the electronics or you like a colored sound. Which if you have Maggies or boxes, like. Easy as that.

A reality check from Apogeespeakers.com. Even back then, there was no consensus.

[topspeed]

Fact is, and you can read the reviews that the big Apogees where always tested as the worlds best. And they are only as good as the electronics. If you heard a Fullrange (which is very rare) and didnt like it than its either the electronics or you like a colored sound. Which if you have Maggies or boxes, like. Easy as that.

I remember when I was your age...my ego was out of control too. I think it's natural for kids in their early 20's to be cocky as hell. I have to remind myself of this whenever I read your posts, although you're pushing my (and apparently others) patience.

What sounds real. That shouldnt be a question. Its easy. If i play a Violin (my friends GF plays a 4 Million Dollar Stradovari in the Zurich Symphoni Prchestra and if she plays in the room and we record that and play it on the system and it sounds the same than that is REAL. Something boxes will never reach.

Interesting. This article on Von Schweikert's famous VR11 demo at CES begs to differ. I'm curious, when you play back your friend's uber violin on your rig, did you use equal equipment to Albert's? The gear utilized for the recording and playback of his demo was absolutely SOTA. If you didn't, you have no idea what you heard. Reality is perception. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no global reality. Someday you'll realize this.

But nevermind, i tried to help you all. But go ahead and dumpb 1000's into worthless boxes. I dont really care anymore. Same as the comment from RGA that they are soo cheap to make Just no clue.

Its not difficult to drive a 1ohm load and there are many amps that can do it.

You're idea of "help" is to slam anybody that doesn't own what you deem "worthy." Thank God you're not a doctor.

[Woochifer]

I have never imlpied that they are better because they have been around for a long time. Fact is, and you can read the reviews that the big Apogees where always tested as the worlds best. And they are only as good as the electronics. If you heard a Fullrange (which is very rare) and didnt like it than its either the electronics or you like a colored sound. Which if you have Maggies or boxes, like. Easy as that.

"Fact is"? Citing reviews now constitutes "fact"? You mean those very magazines reviews that you say are "supported by advertising"?

You can make the electronics argument all you want, but the Apogees I've heard never sounded all that special, and that was listening through several different front end rigs. The tonal characteristics were consistent, with their own coloration.

What sounds real. That shouldnt be a question. Its easy. If i play a Violin (my friends GF plays a 4 Million Dollar Stradovari in the Zurich Symphoni Prchestra and if she plays in the room and we record that and play it on the system and it sounds the same than that is REAL. Something boxes will never reach.

And "real" is something I've never heard from a planar speaker either. Then again, no reproduction of a sound event can fully recreate it, no matter what you're using.

But nevermind, i tried to help you all. But go ahead and dumpb 1000's into worthless boxes. I dont really care anymore. Same as the comment from RGA that they are soo cheap to make Just no clue.

You did not "help" anybody -- you simply presumed that your OPINION constitutes universal FACT, and that we are unqualified to differ from that perspective with our own ears because your ears and your reviewers are about FACT and ours are not. It does not "help" anybody when you tell us that we don't prefer planars because we don't know better or that the electronics we've heard planars playing through aren't good enough or that we prefer coloration or that we only know "quantity" and not "quality." The only person with "no clue" seems to be you because of your persistent intolerance of viewpoints and interpretations that don't square with your own, and all of these incessant presumptions that you know why we hear what we hear better than we do.

[StanleyMuso]

evangelists. By God, they have seen the light, and will do everything to convert everyone else to their point of view. And if you don't, you are not worthy of being saved. According to him, we are all in audio hell.

[RGA]

"we are all in audio hell"

Hey that's Audio Note's Line -- but at least they say "IF" you are..then...."