Adventures at SoundHounds today - good times

[92135011]

After taking the 7am Spirit of BC ferry across to Swartz bay, I proceeded over to Victoria for the imfamous Soundhounds HiFi centre. Apparently I took the wrong turn so it took me over half an hour to get there. They opened at 930 anyways, so I was just on time. On the outside Soundhounds doesnt look like much. It's a cutout from an old appartment that could pass as a safehouse for druggies. The white paint was peeling and the Soundhounds sign looked as though it was from the wild wild west. Stepping inside, it didnt look at all what commercialized hifi stores were like. LPs everywhere, gear everywhere - a clutter to say the least.
Originally I was going to listen to the 3 audionotes K,J,E, B&W 805 and the paradigm studios. Then later I decided that I wouldnt listen to paradigm again since I didnt like them at all the last time I tried. I took the small room. Seemed like the room accoustics were pretty bad. High ceiling, narrow but long, and even has a TV somewhere on the side for some strange reason.

I started with the B&W 805s. Never tried these before. Nice little speaker but it wasnt like what I expected. Sounded a little small. Maybe it was the room accoustics, but as you will read later on, maybe not. Another thing that was annoying was that the tweeter was sorta on its on - kind of like its not part of the music. Sorry for my lack of technical terms, but I'm no audiophile pro. They were nice, but werent moving.

Now, the ANK/spe. These were the special price ones. Surprizingly, they look MUCH better in person than in pictures. The K didnt have the problem with the tweeter separation or whatever and definately sounded a lot bigger. It was also able to reproduce instruments a lot more realistically. I found that most speakers stuggle with a muted trumpet. The K muted trumpet sounded like the real thing. I enjoyed the Ks a lot more than the 805s.

ANJ/spe was next. Now these were something else...I thought that the Ks kicked the 805s out of the water, but these Js kick those Ks out to space. Yes, it's not just the bass. The sound is about 10x bigger than the Ks and the music seems to float around in the air and leap out in front of you. I timed my sessions as 1 hour for each speaker. At the end of the hour, I didnt wanna stop. Everything about it was better than the K.

The ANE/lexus was done in the outside room since it was all set up. I didnt get to spend very much time here though...Too noisy because the door was open. Couldnt really close it cuz it was at least 30 degrees today. I wont comment on this one - just isnt fair.

I still had some time, so I talked with my dealer Paul, who raved on about how the internal cable of the speaker made a differnce and that the "special deal" ANs came once in a lifetime. So then I decided to listen to a copper version of one of the ANs.

I think the ANJ/L was the same one RGA was auditioning. Sound was smaller, bass wasnt as tight anymore were the ones I noticed instantly. All in all, it wasnt as good of a Speaker than the ANJ/spe. Once you get there, you cant come back.

I have always liked the B&W sound...thought it was better than a lot of speakers. Now, after listening to AN, it beats B&W! Here is the dillemma. I put in a refundable deposit for an ANJ to keep it on hold - keep in mind these are the special price ones at 2500cdn. Should I buy these or make my own E from the E kit for about the same price? I will be getting someone else to make the cabinet. However, there is still that factor of risk. My carpenters little experience with speaker cabinets, but a good carpenter nonetheless vs ANs carpenters who make them all the time.

BTW, soundhounds has great hospitality. I spent a total of 6 and a half hours there straight with no lunch. They made me a tasty cappacino, offered me cookies, and later in the day gave me some pineapple with ice drink (this stuff is really good by the way)

Equipment complemented: AN OTO phono, AN CD3.1x, AN TT1, AN Sogon IC, AN spx. Yeah I know its kinda biased toward AN. Well what do you expect from the "audio note room"

Sorry for my lack of indepth analysis. I dont really know how to analyse if a speaker is good. Dont have the technical background I guess. All I know is what sounded good - and they all did, just that some were better.

Note to RGA: the Maggie was model was SMG and the CD player you used was the Rotel RCD-1072

[RGA]

Glad you had a good trip - the outside looks like a delapidated wreck - safehous for druggies LOL Stereo druggies.

The store has a used record store feel - and not the polish of other dealerships which look like Molly Maid comes through every week. Soundhounds is gear and music oriented - with extensive tube gear. If you saw the garage in back it's a repair upgrade place and the basement is loaded with stuff.

Your assessment of the 805 is the same as mine and speakers using non like non soncially matched drivers. Until you hear a better speaker the N805 sounds very good. It was my favorite speaker for a long time. But integration into a cohesive whole fails a little on them and all other speakers i have heard using totally different drivers. It does not take a golden ear to hear it. But considering the N805 is up against competition that ALSO has this problem you don't notice it - until you hear something much better and when you do then speakers like the N805 may as well be relegated to clock radio status.

Well it is frankly hard to not have a snob like attitude after you hear them because the other brands the store carries while nice simply isn't close. Lack of treble noise or false artifact ringing - the highs are every bit and more-so extended so they are not rolled off. The bass is better than anything their size matching and betterring most sub $2000.00 subwoofers - with the exception of raw volume level.

You have to consider your room size with relation to the J and E. And you have to consider the costs involved. The J/Spe is a higher level than the E/XL but the E's do have more bass response 11hz more which can't be completely ignored. But the E is designed for a larger room and could get a touch unruly in a smaller one.

But the J will still thump most speakers under 10kUS in the bass department. The difference between the K and J is very noticeable - and you probably get why adding a sub to the K is just a laughable idea.

Basically the J and the E are very very similar sounding speakers - the K has the same tone but quite a considerable step down.

On the other AA forum reading through others' experiences You can safely put the J/SPe up against speakers in the 10KUS realm. The N801 for example is doubtful to put out more bass than the J. And the J will pressurize a room better with a faster tighter midband - it simply doesn't become conjested. Add to this the ease of room placement the size and the ease of driving the speaker - it's no small wonder Soundhounds replaced the top B&W's and ML's. Big doesn't mean more bass and it doesn't mean better.

The vocal band is as strong as loudspeakers at any price can get. Yes they're expensive but in relative terms (against the competition) IMO are dirt cheap. There are reasons why people who have owned Quads and planars for 30 years and switched to AN - and why audiophiles/writers like Mr. Soo takes the AN E/D over Apogees, KHorns, and some other notables at double or triple + the price- rather than being SOTA in one given sonic area the balance comes off as real music accross the entire frequency band where your ear does not continually look for sonic attributes.

It's hard with your eyes open though because you keep saying bass should not do that from an 8 inch woofer - but beyond the visual cues my ear, anyway, does not focus on the treble or the soundstage - it is merely presented and seems right. There is a supreme delicacy on stringed and acoustic instruments as well not the dullness from other boxed speakers.

It's a tough call because the J/Spe is already made and would certainly save you a lot of time and effort(and skill level questions) - frankly if you're in a room of ~15x17 or even bigger the J would probably be enough in the way room filling bass capability. With my room of ~13-16 I can't turn the volume past 9 o'clock without hurtig my ears and it's pretty damn loud at 8. Seemingly more sensitive in this regard than my Wharfedales.

The J is a good deal yes but you need to think about the sound you will want and not just because it's a deal. On the other hand there is the upgrade wiring etc of the Spe to consider over the basic E.

You have all your colour options open to you building the E yourself. Thei opinion was that a higher J model is better than a lower E model like the J/Spe over the E/D kinda thing. Judging by the difference between the J/L and J/Spe then I would sacrifice some bass for the refinement everywhere else. How much recorded material is there that going to 16hz from ~25hz will matter much? Most music does not fall below 40hz.

If you're in doubt about the J's ability in a normal room to have serious bass depth then on Tuesday (unfortunately it's the only day I have free) you're welcome to come to my place and listen for yourself. I live about 5 minutes by bus from the Departure Bay Ferry. Because of the huge ceilings at Soundhounds - which means a HUGE room the J still musters considerable energy. There is Far more bass in my room than what you heard at Soundhounds - though my Sugden/Cambridge combo is completely outclassed by the CD3.1/Meishu or Soro SE set-ups.

Was Terry still working on the Juke Box? What kinda stuff were you listening to.

And did you see any good used stuff?

PS
Thanks for the info on the Maggie etc.

[92135011]

RGA,
thanks for the kind offer, but tuesday is the day after i finish my graveyard shift. Would be too tired. I do not doubt the J's ability at all. There were many things I heard in recordings that I simply never heard. What the! that was part of this song? However, it's true that I was expecting 30 somewhat hertz to sound lower than what I heard. Despite this, I found the sound most rewarding. I didnt want to end my hour long session with them. But to be fair to the rest of the speakers, I did. Paul said I could drop a deposit to place them on hold so then I did. One thing I like about soundhounds is that they dont have a real policy. Just like your K trade ins and my hold is flexible. They dont push any written policy of how many % of the merchandise for X number of weeks hold. He said himself that policies dont work for everyone.

I'm not sure which guy was Terry. It was a pretty relaxed day and most of the staff spent their time lounging around chatting and serving the occational customer that came in. A total of maybe 5 customers came in all day while I was there (at least I think). Didnt see the jukebox anywhere though. The used section was cluttered as usual. Paul said that all the speakers were in no terms as good as the K. Saw a tannoy and some other brands I wasnt too interested in. Dont think they got anything thing good ever since you went there last.

Because of my lack of music selection, I had to make due with any music I had at home. This is the list here.
1. Tin Tin Deo, Oscar Peterson meets Roy Hargrove and Ralph Moore
2. Fallen, Sarah Mclachlan
3. Bring me to life, Evanescence
4. Klimblim, Don Ross
5. Cole's Song, Julian Lennon
6. One O'clock Jump, Count Basie
7. All of me, Count Basie
8. Hannah Jane, Hootie and the Blowfish
9. Billy Jean, Michael Jackson
10. The song is you, Frank Sinatra
11. Some sort of canon by the Canadian Brass
12. Beethoven 6th (5-6 min worth from the start)
13. I've got a Rock'n'roll heart, Eric Clapton

9-13 on vinyl, the rest on CD. It might not be the "audiophile's choice" for audition music, but let's face it. It's stuff I like! and I think that's what really matters!

I think I might just end up going for this deal rather than making it myself. Although the grill holes make the speaker look good looking than its newer counterpart, I think it will be quite useful against dust and just in case one of my little cousins come over.

Well, looks like I'm into the Audio Note band wagon now. i first heard AN from you here on the AudioReview. Checked out their website and said to myself "what the heck...this website sux...where are the products? what's with all this level stuff? why are the speakers so plain and 70s?" Hearing more of your rant and rave, I felt that maybe they are worth trying out just for the hell of it. Shelling out that much money really gives me a heartache though. That's a lot of cash. Hell, I'm not gonna tell anyone how much I will have paid for them. Afraid of the lecture and all that. Especially the plain look will really throw them off guard. To those who dont know hifi, good looks and size count a lot. For some reason, to them, a large speaker sounds and costs more than any small ones. If they saw the plain box of AN, they would have guessed it was a DIY 200 speaker. I mean I was gonna chip in with a bunch of friends to get another friend a pair of Energy C-1s for bout 220cdn. Their response was "WHAT? that expensive?" My response was "WHAT? you should see what I have my eye out for. " A close friend also said I was wasting money on stuff that I would be leaving at home. Why not get something you could show off or something? Like a car with a nice sound system? 1) I dont feel the need to impress anyone. 2) car sound is never nice in my experience 3) the time I spend in a car is probably small fraction of the time I spend home. 20Gs for a modified used sports compact car is ok, but a few thousand on high fidelity sound reproduction isnt. Different priorities I guess, but double standards nonetheless.

[RGA]

When I was 18 I went into a high end dealer and dropped $2500.00 on a Pioneer Elite receiver and a Boston Acoustics subwoofer. At that time I had no car. My theory was that I could own a total piece of junk car or a pretty nice stereo system. The theory was sound - unfortunately what I purchased was not. But no internet back then and really only had magazines to rely on. Oops - little did I know that many companies smooze to get positive reviews nor did I pay attention to magazines that gave EVERYTHING a positive review. Both were and still are useless.

Yes they're ugly, yes they won't impress others in this regard. Most of my friends - actually all of them are not in the slightest way interested in high end audio. Though I did impress a Bose 901 owner with my lowly B&W DM 302 - he later sold the utterly inferior 901 - and I never did find out what he bought.

Soundhounds does not have the best rooms but they have a fair set-up - compare speaker X versus Y in the same room. I don't think you should be pressured into buying the J/Spe. The very fact that they are ugly and relatively unknown means that they are not going anywhere immediately.

And you should not strap yourself to do such a deal. On the other hand I look at a speaker as a 20 year+ investment if you get the right speakers. People spend more on leather seats for their car yet would whine about $2500.00 on speakers that will outlast 4-5 cars and leather options. Hell I don't even have a job.

People will think whatever they want in the end. I knew a guy who had $40,000 in a two channel rig but didn't own a car - he lived in a penthouse in Vancouver. He reasoned that he lives in his home - that's where the investment should be made not some silly car - easy when you live downtown admittedly. But $15k is a cheap car. I would much rather have a $15k Car and a $15k stereo than a $29,000.00 Car and a $1000.00 stereo. Cars to me are like toasters - you need it to make toast - you need a car to get you someplace. Music brings me pleasure - a good system enhances that pleasure. A car - is a freaking money pit - the fancier the car the bigger the money pit.

But I stress that you really should not feel rushed about this. I was looking for years until I arrived at the K. And because I was SOOO familiar with the K and after hearing the E's moving to the J was more of a confirmation than starting at the beginning - ie; I knew the sound before going in pretty much.

For you it is all very new. So make sure you have in fact listened to a variety of the competition - like ML, and other differring designs. Once you have, or if you already have heard them, if the J is still king then it's not a hard choice.

But I also knew you had your plans for building the E's. Then again there is no law that says you can't build those as well one day.

Remember this is a LOT of money to spend on a single componant. While IMO it is the most important componant - most people don't spend $1000.00 on an ENTIRE stereo system over the course of their whole life. That can put things in some perspective.

$2500.00 can buy an awful lot of other stuff - a Big Screen TV AND a lptop computer and maybe even a Digital camera - JUST for speakers. This is all stuff that I was considering - $2500.00 can buy a full very good stereo system with a tube amplifier - and also bring musical satisfaction - so be sure you think it through.

And make sure you're not being biased of what I have to say or what Paul has to say about this gear - or Peter etc. I do love the gear and I get caught up in my own liking for it but I also recognize that not everyone has the same preference that I have. SO if the music that came out impressed you more than what the competition has offerred to your ear and you have put out what I, Paul, Peter or the reviews have said - then you can feel totally comfortable buying them.

One good thing about being ugly and very retro is that if you're ever robbed they may leave the speakers LOL they would think ahh just some 70's thing not worth taking. But a B&W? WOW...look at that cool thing.

[RGA]

Forgot to ask - did you see the Kits? Or hear them?

[92135011]

When I was 18 I went into a high end dealer and dropped $2500.00 on a Pioneer Elite receiver and a Boston Acoustics subwoofer. At that time I had no car. My theory was that I could own a total piece of junk car or a pretty nice stereo system. The theory was sound - unfortunately what I purchased was not. But no internet back then and really only had magazines to rely on. Oops - little did I know that many companies smooze to get positive reviews nor did I pay attention to magazines that gave EVERYTHING a positive review. Both were and still are useless.

Yes they're ugly, yes they won't impress others in this regard. Most of my friends - actually all of them are not in the slightest way interested in high end audio. Though I did impress a Bose 901 owner with my lowly B&W DM 302 - he later sold the utterly inferior 901 - and I never did find out what he bought.

Soundhounds does not have the best rooms but they have a fair set-up - compare speaker X versus Y in the same room. I don't think you should be pressured into buying the J/Spe. The very fact that they are ugly and relatively unknown means that they are not going anywhere immediately.

And you should not strap yourself to do such a deal. On the other hand I look at a speaker as a 20 year+ investment if you get the right speakers. People spend more on leather seats for their car yet would whine about $2500.00 on speakers that will outlast 4-5 cars and leather options. Hell I don't even have a job.

People will think whatever they want in the end. I knew a guy who had $40,000 in a two channel rig but didn't own a car - he lived in a penthouse in Vancouver. He reasoned that he lives in his home - that's where the investment should be made not some silly car - easy when you live downtown admittedly. But $15k is a cheap car. I would much rather have a $15k Car and a $15k stereo than a $29,000.00 Car and a $1000.00 stereo. Cars to me are like toasters - you need it to make toast - you need a car to get you someplace. Music brings me pleasure - a good system enhances that pleasure. A car - is a freaking money pit - the fancier the car the bigger the money pit.

But I stress that you really should not feel rushed about this. I was looking for years until I arrived at the K. And because I was SOOO familiar with the K and after hearing the E's moving to the J was more of a confirmation than starting at the beginning - ie; I knew the sound before going in pretty much.

For you it is all very new. So make sure you have in fact listened to a variety of the competition - like ML, and other differring designs. Once you have, or if you already have heard them, if the J is still king then it's not a hard choice.

But I also knew you had your plans for building the E's. Then again there is no law that says you can't build those as well one day.

Remember this is a LOT of money to spend on a single componant. While IMO it is the most important componant - most people don't spend $1000.00 on an ENTIRE stereo system over the course of their whole life. That can put things in some perspective.

$2500.00 can buy an awful lot of other stuff - a Big Screen TV AND a lptop computer and maybe even a Digital camera - JUST for speakers. This is all stuff that I was considering - $2500.00 can buy a full very good stereo system with a tube amplifier - and also bring musical satisfaction - so be sure you think it through.

And make sure you're not being biased of what I have to say or what Paul has to say about this gear - or Peter etc. I do love the gear and I get caught up in my own liking for it but I also recognize that not everyone has the same preference that I have. SO if the music that came out impressed you more than what the competition has offerred to your ear and you have put out what I, Paul, Peter or the reviews have said - then you can feel totally comfortable buying them.

One good thing about being ugly and very retro is that if you're ever robbed they may leave the speakers LOL they would think ahh just some 70's thing not worth taking. But a B&W? WOW...look at that cool thing.

I am truly impressed by the ANJ sound. I was actually expecting a lot from the 805s, but something just wasnt right. That was however not the case after I heard the AN. After the numerous dealers I have visited in Vancouver, Richmond and West Van, I found that the ANJ was the only speaker that caused me to stop trying to analyse the damn thing for its highs and lows. Totally forgot about the whole analysing thing and started to enjoy. And again, that muted trumpet sound really caught my attention because it sounded so real unlike most other speakers that make it much too nazal.
I'm definately in no rush, but I thought I would drop a deposit just in case I wanted to get it and get this deal. But it's true. It's a lot of money indeed. Hard to say if it justifies, but that goes to all hobbies. In the US there is a national association of toothpick holder collectors. They spend money and time with toothpick holders - makes them happy so why not. Lots of my buddies got themselves cars, but I still take the bus (mostly because of the $20 UBC bus pass and the girlfriend is OK with it now). I'm not into cars. I have been doin music since I was 7 - thats my thing.
The kit I never got to try because Paul said something about how he didnt have a suitable preamp or something. I thnk maybe he got tired and a little lazy LOL. But he did say that if I was good with soldering and like upgrading then the kit could be the way to go. He is confident that AN will back up their products. BTW, the stands are commin in within a week or 2. The price is really steep. Maybe he can work out a better price. Afterall, accessories are marked up big time

[RGA]

Well you're right there is a hobby aspect here - and I'll take this over toothpick collecting

In the big scheme of life $2500.00Cdn is chump change - and compared to what a lot of people pay it's a relative steal.

As for stands - no law says you have to buy AN stands. The 20 inch stands i have now are quite good enough.

I'll have to determine what trade in and price I'll get. What did he say they sell for?