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  1. #1
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    $2500 High Efficient Speakers recommendation

    I mostly listen to jazz, classic rock, classical, and a few hiphop on vinyl.

    I currently own B&W Signature 805 (sens. 88dbs) and 35-45 watts A/B Tube receiver I love so much in my 14'x14'x9' room w/ 50 sq ft of acountic foam panel. I love my speakers but I may love my tube integrated a bit more. Problem is that my sound level is a bit shy of where I want it to be. I am starting to think that every 1 watt of tube is equal to 2-3 watts of solid states is just a myth.

    I ask you guys to give me some ideas on my options. I mostly prefer Bookshelf spekaers, but if others will play well with my receiver then any advise will be greatly appreciated.

    -JRA

  2. #2
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    I would give the following a try. They work great with Valves and will improve greatly on your B&W.

    www.revolveraudio.co.uk RW45 or RW 33

    www.castle.uk.com Stirling or Harlech S2

    www.loudspeaker-art.com Stiletto or Stiletto 6

    www.zingali.it Any model that will fit your budget. Omniray horn technology designed for Valves.

    www.livingvoice.co.uk Auditorium model. Slightly above your price, but a real synergy with Valves.

    These should all fit within your price range.

    I used to own Castle Harlechs and Stirling and both are great speakers. A very safe bet. Some might find them a little too laid back.

    I also had the Zingali Overture3. A fantastic speaker and the smaller models are also very very good.

    The revolver range I have only heard at a show, but was impressed with them.

    The ART speaker range is just outstanding. Pure musical bliss and my favourite.

    Hope this helps, and with your budget you should end up with a decent speaker.

    As for the tube watt issue. I am all tube 2x40 Watts and my Volume control never needs to go past the halfway point. If it's designed right and you use speakers that compliment your tube amp you will have plenty of volume. But as with all things, there are well and not so well designed tube amps.

    Peace

    Bernd
    Last edited by Bernd; 05-17-2006 at 05:51 AM.
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  3. #3
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I mostly listen to jazz, classic rock, classical, and a few hiphop on vinyl.

    I currently own B&W Signature 805 (sens. 88dbs) and 35-45 watts A/B Tube receiver I love so much in my 14'x14'x9' room w/ 50 sq ft of acountic foam panel. I love my speakers but I may love my tube integrated a bit more. Problem is that my sound level is a bit shy of where I want it to be. I am starting to think that every 1 watt of tube is equal to 2-3 watts of solid states is just a myth.

    I ask you guys to give me some ideas on my options. I mostly prefer Bookshelf spekaers, but if others will play well with my receiver then any advise will be greatly appreciated.

    -JRA
    The new Tyler Acoustics Pro Dynamics PD-20 largish standmounts at $2800 direct from Tyler sound like they would fit your needs nicely. These puppies can be driven with as little as 1 watt and have a 101db sensitivity rating. They use high efficiency drivers from Eminence (2 12 inchers and a horn tweeter per speaker). These sound very different (not implying worse, BTW) than the other Tyler lines, and they particularly fit nicely into the classic rock and jazz listening preferences catagories.

    The link to their photo and specs in more detail is http://tyleracoustics.com/pro_dynamics.html .

    ---Dave
    Integra DHC-40.2 Pre/Pro
    Coda 2 X 200 Watt Amp
    Rotel RB-985 5 X 100 Watt Amp
    2 Tyler Acoustics 2 Piece Linbrook Signature System
    1 Tyler Linbrook Signature Center Channel
    3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors
    1 ACI Titan II Sub
    Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD
    Panasonic BDT-210 + 350 Blu-ray
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    Opera Audio Consonance CD-120
    Jolida 1301A 2 X 30 Watt Int. Amp (Sovtek Tubes)
    Opera Audio Consonance Eric-1 Speakers

  4. #4
    Suspended superpanavision70mm's Avatar
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    Well, I like all of the other suggestions, but I will also say that the PSB Platinum monitors are very sweet. They are not even $2500....more like $1500, which means you could possible save that money or put it towards something else to improve the sound.

  5. #5
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    The new Tyler Acoustics Pro Dynamics PD-20 largish standmounts at $2800 direct from Tyler sound like they would fit your needs nicely. These puppies can be driven with as little as 1 watt and have a 101db sensitivity rating. They use high efficiency drivers from Eminence (2 12 inchers and a horn tweeter per speaker). These sound very different (not implying worse, BTW) than the other Tyler lines, and they particularly fit nicely into the classic rock and jazz listening preferences catagories.

    The link to their photo and specs in more detail is http://tyleracoustics.com/pro_dynamics.html .

    ---Dave
    Is it me, or do the PD10's look a heckuva lot like Klipsch KG2's or Heresy's?

    BTW, awesome suggestions guys. I'm sure if RGA weren't in Korea, he'd suggest the AudioNote AN/K spe, which should fit within the range.

  6. #6
    Defender of Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I am starting to think that every 1 watt of tube is equal to 2-3 watts of solid states is just a myth.
    -JRA
    LOL! What was your first clue?

  7. #7
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks guys.

    Problem is that I dont think I can audition most of speakers mentioned here, so may have to take a chance on a few.

    -Zingali Overture and Prelude 2s and 3s are the most beautiful speakers I have ever seen, and prices are somewhat reasonable. Good review on Overture 3, why did you sell them?


    -Tyler Acoustics can definetly be played with my tubes. 97-101db sensitivity is just outrageous, but not sure how my amp will drive 2 12" woofers. I am willing to sell my subwoofer if my mains will play around 35-40hz.

    -AudioNote may not play to their potiential if I dont mate them with their components. but of cource I dont know this.

    -PSB Platinum M2s can be auditioned around Metro area. Their top of the line monitors are never talked about on this site. PSB's 90 db campared to 88 db on my B&W isn't too significant. But I must go listen to them in near future.

    I feel like my $2500 budget just isnt enough. Dont get me wrong this is A LOT of money for 99% of people who browse this site. But say acquiring speakers with 91 db sensitivity, that's like doubling my amp output compared to my BW. I dont think going for a new amp is a solution for me now. This hobby's gonna last me for at least 40+ years, as long as I dont do anything dumb. So, I should continue to search for next 6-12 months and up my budget to around $3500-4000. I'm finding alot of good company reference on http://www.worldtubeaudio.com/direct...tegorie_80.htm.

    If you guys have a chance to check the site and happen to see any hidden gem here, please let me know.

    Thanks
    -JRA

  8. #8
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Has anybody heard these puppys? http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/ts33.htm

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Didnt Thiel make some speakers build for the wall?
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  10. #10
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Wow, thanks guys.

    Problem is that I dont think I can audition most of speakers mentioned here, so may have to take a chance on a few.

    -Zingali Overture and Prelude 2s and 3s are the most beautiful speakers I have ever seen, and prices are somewhat reasonable. Good review on Overture 3, why did you sell them?


    Thanks
    -JRA
    Hi,

    Glad you liked the review. Thank you. The answer to your question is two-fold.
    Last year I finally managed to have a dedicated music room, and I planned to upgrade to the Zingali Home Monitor Range. However they were just a little too big for my room since I don't live in a mansion.
    And at the same time ART brought out the new Emotion range and I compared side by side over a long weekend and went for the ART Emotion. I reckon both would have been a good choice, the ART just fitted in better and had the edge to these ears. I would recommend the Zingali line without any problem. On top of that I had such a good experience with the ART Stiletto and I got a decent deal on the Emotions.
    I think you are doing right by keeping your amp and looking at the Speaker end.
    Good Luck.

    Peace

    Bernd
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  11. #11
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Is it me, or do the PD10's look a heckuva lot like Klipsch KG2's or Heresy's?
    Can't be sure, it has been a long time since I followed the Klipsch brand... I am pretty sure Klipsch does not use Eminence drivers though. The sound is very different than the Klipsch I remember (but as I said, it has been quite a while since I listened to anything in the line).

    ---Dave
    Integra DHC-40.2 Pre/Pro
    Coda 2 X 200 Watt Amp
    Rotel RB-985 5 X 100 Watt Amp
    2 Tyler Acoustics 2 Piece Linbrook Signature System
    1 Tyler Linbrook Signature Center Channel
    3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors
    1 ACI Titan II Sub
    Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD
    Panasonic BDT-210 + 350 Blu-ray
    Consonance Droplet CDP-5.0
    Sony 55NX-810 1080p 3D-LED HDTV

    Office:
    Opera Audio Consonance CD-120
    Jolida 1301A 2 X 30 Watt Int. Amp (Sovtek Tubes)
    Opera Audio Consonance Eric-1 Speakers

  12. #12
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo

    -Tyler Acoustics can definetly be played with my tubes. 97-101db sensitivity is just outrageous, but not sure how my amp will drive 2 12" woofers. I am willing to sell my subwoofer if my mains will play around 35-40hz.
    The Pro Dynamics line from Tyler was specifically designed to be driven by low power tube amps... and I don't just mean due to their sensitivity rating... They actually keep their impedence requirements as very easy loads for amps to drive. Your amp would drive any of the speakers in the Pro Dynamics part of the Tyler line with ease (including their top speaker in the line with the 15 inchers)... The other Tyler lines are another story... My main Linbrook System speakers, for example, are about 92-93 db efficient, but they love power and are a bit more demanding of amp low impedence load stability.

    ---Dave
    Integra DHC-40.2 Pre/Pro
    Coda 2 X 200 Watt Amp
    Rotel RB-985 5 X 100 Watt Amp
    2 Tyler Acoustics 2 Piece Linbrook Signature System
    1 Tyler Linbrook Signature Center Channel
    3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors
    1 ACI Titan II Sub
    Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD
    Panasonic BDT-210 + 350 Blu-ray
    Consonance Droplet CDP-5.0
    Sony 55NX-810 1080p 3D-LED HDTV

    Office:
    Opera Audio Consonance CD-120
    Jolida 1301A 2 X 30 Watt Int. Amp (Sovtek Tubes)
    Opera Audio Consonance Eric-1 Speakers

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I am starting to think that every 1 watt of tube is equal to 2-3 watts of solid states is just a myth.

    -JRA
    It's not really a myth but it is largely in the sujective listening domain. Tube amps sound more powerful perhaps than they really are for a variety of reasons but I suspect it has to do with how they get overpowered that leaves that impression. This from a higher watt SS owner to now owning a 10 watt and there is zero motivation for me to go back. Though if I had the N805 I would want more power --- or like you with the Sig 805 new speakers. It depends what you believe is the "culprit" in your stereo. The 805 is not a bad loudspeaker despite the B&W bashing that goes on and it's better than most I've heard - presumably the sig version is better.

    IMO you have a starting off point in a quality loudspeaker, which may not be your cup of tea, but at least you know what to be listening for as improvements. The last thing I would be doing in your shoes is making a speaker decision based of reviews and biased forumers. What I can say is look for speakers that are reasonably high efficient ~90db (you don't have a big room after all) but more importantly present an easy impedence load on your amplfier - which is FAR more important than whether it is 92db sensitive or 96db sensitive. The list of such speakers gets very small indeed so you won't need any advice seeking them out.

    Besides hunting for em is part of the fun. I am in the process of looking for an ultrazoom camera -- and it is a pain in the neck and I only have three I'm looking at. There are hundred if not a thousand of loudspeaker companies to wade through.

  14. #14
    Defender of Common Sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    It's not really a myth but it is largely in the sujective listening domain. Tube amps sound more powerful perhaps than they really are for a variety of reasons but I suspect it has to do with how they get overpowered that leaves that impression. This from a higher watt SS owner to now owning a 10 watt and there is zero motivation for me to go back.
    Prior to this post I had never heard such a claim before, but I can assure you that a Watt is a Watt, period. This stupid claim makes about as much sense as saying that a 10lb tube amp actually weighs the same as a 30lb SS amplifier.

  15. #15
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by njspeer
    Prior to this post I had never heard such a claim before, but I can assure you that a Watt is a Watt, period. This stupid claim makes about as much sense as saying that a 10lb tube amp actually weighs the same as a 30lb SS amplifier.
    Well you'll have to read more. A watt is a watt -- the subjective loudness however has been written about often if you look for it. I am not supporting it because I have not put it to the test. A 100 watt amplifier will give you 3db added loudness over a 50 watt amp. A 100 watt amp will provide 10 db loudness over a 10 watt amp (which effectively doubles the perceived loudness level to the ear (and only at maximum levels where the ear is very poor at discerning what is going on)) . I have run a Bryston 3B ST which is rated at 120 watts but measures as fact as 167Watts and I have a 10 watt amp. The issue I am more interested in is which can I listen to louder longer and that is by far the latter amp. Though yes the former in absolute terms will play louder. I have never heard an amplifier 100 watts or more be something I would want -- one day maybe but not yet.

    http://www.stereophile.com/features/357/

  16. #16
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I was crazy to think 45 watts werent strong enough. I am definetly keeping my current gear.

    I had 2 sets of speaker wires from each speaker outputs. One set to my main speakers and the other pair to my sub's speaker terminals. This may have been a contributor to my sound level issue. 40-45 watts are more than enough for my room and ears.

    Yeah, I know. This discussion is old, but I think it's important for members to post their findings after receiving advises.
    Thanx

  17. #17
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    Have you considered a pair of Klipsch La Scalas or Cornwalls? They could be found lightly used for well under $2500, especially Cornwalls, and are a great speaker for the money.

    I haven't heard anything else in that range that has the dynamics and punch that the Cornwalls have. Of course I could be a little biased, as I have owned a pair for 5 years, but I'm still very happy with them.

    -Jon

  18. #18
    nerd ericl's Avatar
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    I just sold my Cornwalls for $650. they're also making them new again. they're great hi efficiency speakers, awesome with low power tubes. I didn't want to sell mine, but i didn't have space in my new apt.

    eric

  19. #19
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your suggestion Vercus and Ericl.
    I would love to play with those beasts, but I do not have my own house yet with medium to large sized room. For that I must compromise of any future purchases that are more than 60-100lbs each. But if I can find out within reasonable distance, I've been know to be crazy amongst my friends. thanks

  20. #20
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    My very highest personal recommendation are these http://www.snellacoustics.com/techdocs/LCR%207.pdf you can find them on the net for about $1600 a pair. I've listened to these and if I wouldn't have built my own speakers using SEAS drivers I would've bought these. excellent, clear and highly efficient speakers. They can handle up to 300 watts at 110 db!

  21. #21
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericl
    I just sold my Cornwalls for $650. they're also making them new again. they're great hi efficiency speakers, awesome with low power tubes. I didn't want to sell mine, but i didn't have space in my new apt.

    eric
    Have you heard any of the speakers in the Heritage series recently? (La Scala, Cornwall, Heresey, etc.) What say you? The specs are certainly interesting.

  22. #22
    RGA
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    I love this under your name:

    Location: 3 meters away from my speakers.

    Don't know why but it is amusing. 45 watts should be plenty for any B&W loudspeaker except one. Assuming it's a well built 45 watt amp that can handle impedence swings well. I heard the N801 with 11 watts and it was the best sound I ever got from the N801 -- it could not play loud enough however to make it worthwhile for the money -- but 45 watts of same quality would have been.

  23. #23
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    2500? How about less than 50.00?

    These are getting a lot of attention right now. Supposedly they've been on sale for as little as 35.00 and change. I haven't listened to a pair myself but I'm tempted to pick up a pair. They couldn't possibly be competitive with a 2500.00 pair of book shelves (or could they?). Efficient, carbon fiber cone with integreated silk dome tweeter (ala KEF).

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138

  24. #24
    nerd ericl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean_martin
    Have you heard any of the speakers in the Heritage series recently? (La Scala, Cornwall, Heresey, etc.) What say you? The specs are certainly interesting.
    Those old cornwalls are my only real experience. They were great, and I never even got around to replacing the internal cabling, which they say makes a huge difference (25 year old copper cabling - icky).
    They were so great with tubes. The Cornwalls and my olf Fisher 500c were a great combo. They're both gone now though. too bad, they were classics.

  25. #25
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Wish I had money for Proac Response D38 and 80. Oh well.
    Snell looks beautiful but I require more lower extension. Maybe I should look into building my own pair for $1200-1800. That should provide great sound if I manage to do everything perfectly.

    For the Insignia speakers from BB. I might go audition it for my HT purpose. I would need a matching center doe....

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