Problems with moderating/moderators

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex;

i would add yourself to the list and add Wooch ontop of it also. Dont you think that we get tired of constant Paradigm and HT recommendations? Maybe this forum needs different categories with price classes. Other big audio video forums have this and its wonderfull. There are "budget recommendations" in the ten thousand dollar area too and not only in the 200 dollar area. Maybe more seperated sections are a good thing.

-Flo

I have recommended paradigm in the past in the context of certain price ranges, though I suspect if you actually looked at some of my posts in the last year or so, you'd see I generally don't like the product line much today with the exception of 2 or 3 speakers. I try to avoid bad mouthing them because of the cult-like following they have. Actually got into a minor flame war over that a few weeks ago.
I never recommend Paradigm in the $2000 plus category, never have. I don't even think Wooch recommends them that much, but I don't read all his posts.
As for HT recommendations, outside the HT forum, I don't recommend HT anything.
So I'm not sure if your post was an attack directed at me - if it was, you should go back and get your facts straight.
You will never find me taking every opportunity to claim that one brand, or one speaker design topology is better than all others.
Not sure what your point is?

[Florian]

Its not an attack, simple an addition to your "Yesterday, 07:40 AM" post.

One doesn't have to look very far or very hard to find the examples of subjectivist behavior you're looking for..

I personally consider SirT, You and Wooch to be very highly "subjectivists" and feel that you should add yourself to the list instead of pointing fingers to others.

-Flo

[kexodusc]

Its not an attack, simple an addition to your "Yesterday, 07:40 AM" post.




I personally consider SirT, You and Wooch to be very highly "subjectivists" and feel that you should add yourself to the list instead of pointing fingers to others.

-Flo

Subjectivist how? Why am I being lumped in with Sir T and Woochifer here? Please explain a bit more thoroughly, I wouldn't want to get the wrong idea about what you're trying to say.

[Florian]

Well i feel that we all are "subjectivists" in one way or the other. I am for ribbons, Wooch is generally for Paradigm boxes, SirT contests all of High End and argues MC with Bernd who is in a totally different leauge then him. E-Stat is generally quiet but is a 2Channel perfectionist, You want to be the next Wooch and recommend Paradigm up to 2K (silly in my opinion). RGA is all Audio Note in every forum on the internet, And Wooch generalises planars all the time etc...Audio_dude is a nice kid and considers him a budget expert which at the age of 14 is a bit premature. He is a nice kid !

I am simply saying that we ALL are "subjectivists" and absolutly noone is correct or better on these forums. Some members are looked up the as the holy grail and all knowing which is simply bogus.

I simply think that some big guys on here lack character, they dont stand for anything and simple agree with most people and encourage them instead of stepping up and sticking to their opinion.

--This is a friendly post

-Flo

PS: Also the moderators dont stick together. For instance, the MMG question was never moved to the planar forum. Even this small move would yield in more diversified traffic in the site and less dead spots. Designate experts in seperate areas, maybe make price ranges....i have many ideas and others do too. I think we should rethink some aspects of the forum and carry together ideas on what to improve if we want to get more traffic and more happy members.

[kexodusc]

You want to be the next Wooch and recommend Paradigm up to 2K (silly in my opinion).

First, I rarely recommend Paradigms under $2000 anymore, and haven't for awhile now - with the exception fo 2 models that I still find are good for the money.
Second, my wanting to be the Next Wooch has been grossly overexaggerated here. That's a joke - nothing more...I hope you dont' take it seriously. This isn't the first time you've lumped me into the pro-paradigm flag waving crowd. I really don't know what gives you that impression - is it the "the next woochifer" tag?

I am simply saying that we ALL are "subjectivists" and absolutly noone is correct or better on these forums. Some members are looked up the as the holy grail and all knowing which is simply bogus.

Yeah, which means you agree with my earlier post "One doesn't have to look very far or very hard to find the examples of subjectivist behavior you're looking for.." Good!
That wasn't a condemnation of the behaviour in itself, we all act like that from time to time, but rather just a means of defending the prior claim against objectivists - they really aren't so different

I simply think that some big guys on here lack character, they dont stand for anything and simple agree with most people and encourage them instead of stepping up and sticking to their opinion.

That's just a goddamn lie and very unfair accussation based on anythihng but substance. Your just bitter because of your prior arguments with the "big guys".

For a friendly post, you sure took a good swing at the character of the big guys - your definition of friendly is radically different from mine.

[Florian]

That's just a goddamn lie and very unfair accussation based on anythihng but substance. Your just bitter because of your prior arguments with the "big guys".

For a friendly post, you sure took a good swing at the character of the big guys - your definition of friendly is radically different from mine.

Ouch! Someone took that the wrong way!
I dont have problems with the big guys, only when i ask for help and have to wait 5 month for action

Check your PM

[kexodusc]

Ouch! Someone took that the wrong way!
I dont have problems with the big guys, only when i ask for help and have to wait 5 month for action

Check your PM

That's between you and them. But if you want to set an example for "standing up", the very thing you accuse them of not doing, you should take it up directly with them, not make off-hand comments on an internet thread somewhere where they aren't provided an opportunity to defend themselves.

Having strong opinions is fine - but being able to present them tactfully and respectfully is a skill everyone should have.

[Florian]

I tried that in the past, but got no response. This is a free forum, and the ones are definetly capable of adding their comments on this thread. I am beeing named in a few threads and never direct, so after my trial and errors i simply give up. I dont have a problem with them anymore, i simply ignore them. There are enough that agree with me and enough that dont, so that both sides can coexist.

Having strong opinions is fine - but being able to present them tactfully and respectfully is a skill everyone should have.

I tried that in the beginning, but got chocked with endless quotes from webpages, opinions from people with no hands on experiences and a endless beating from those who label everyone a snob with toys they cannot or do not want to afford. After me, Bernd got named a snob as soon as the opposite site had no valid arguments anymore.....and give it time, others will get named too.

[jneutron]

The issue at hand is that of the purpose of the typical Objectivist reply post. The example given by kexodusc concerned a simple correction of information [regardless of the poster's audio philosopy]. The purpose wasn't to correct THEM but the info provided. The example by jneutron instead uses that opportunity not so much to correct the info but refute the philosophy of the individual [or school of]. Their purpose isn't to provide data for any individuals asking [or not asking], their primary purpose is to condemn an opposing POV. That is the reason the "Audio Lab" was established.
MikE

Stating such hogwash with respect to my motives, while semingly making you happy, does not make it so.

I provide several examples:

1. A subjectivist poster says that by spacing their wires farther apart, the inductance is lowered. This provides some "audible change" which is much better.

The response I would provide... (don't trust what I say here, go to diyaudio, or AA, or AH, to verify that I speak the truth)..

The inductance of a wire pair increases as a result of spacing. Here's a graph showing the actual inductance of a #18 awg wire pair vs spacing. As to how it affects sound, I cannot answer.

2. An OBJECTIVIST poster says that increasing the wire guage increases inductance, thereby (yada yada)

Response: From the Terman equation, the geometric based inductive component is a log of the ratio of wire diameter to wire spacing. For wire geometries that look the same regardless of the scale, the external inductance will remain the same.. I have verified this via calculation and measurement.

3. A subjective poster claims that the velocity of propagation affects the sound (OR, AN OBJECTIVIST CLAIMS IT CANNOT!!!!!)

Response: Actually, it is more interesting. The speed of propagation is determined by the equation (yada yada), which is dependent entirely on the L and C. So, in actuality, the prop speed correlates to the L/C metrics. Whether or not that affects sound, I can't definitely say..However, differential localization certainly brings the possibility into view, as the numbers I'm getting with that fall into the realm of human capability.

If you doubt the information I have provided as examples, I can explain further.

If you doubt that this is how I would post, history is not on your side. You will find at other websites (diy favored mainly because they support jpegs), all this stuff, with graphs, pictures, equational analysis, and DEMEANOR.

This site, by definition of rules, does not allow me to do that within the cable forum.

This site requires I start a new thread, in an entirely different location.

This is good? Over at diyaudio, it works. People can simply ignore my explanations, people can learn, people can discuss.

Here, that is gone...a double edge sword..

What would you have me post at the lab? Lectures? Classes? What?

Heck, I'd fall asleep reading that..

You need to cull out people problems, not cull out content.

Cheers, John

[FLZapped]

The rules have not "hamstrung" anyone here. Far from it, they have allowed people to ask questions without the fear of being ridiculed.

Really, then why move the thread when a simple question was asked?

In this case, ridicule came in the form of dumping the thread into a well known pigeon hole here. Now called the Audio Lab, which once had a far more sinister name. The stigma lives on regardless of the name change.

Quite frankly, you've just pointed yourself out as a hypocrit.

AR is a much better place because of it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, a forum without any opposing point of view from that of the moderators, whatsoever.

-Bruce

[Geoffcin]

Really, then why move the thread when a simple question was asked?

In this case, ridicule came in the form of dumping the thread into a well known pigeon hole here. Now called the Audio Lab, which once had a far more sinister name. The stigma lives on regardless of the name change.

Quite frankly, you've just pointed yourself out as a hypocrit.

First of all the thread was NOT dumped anywhere. Go check you facts first.

Yes, a forum without any opposing point of view from that of the moderators, whatsoever.

-Bruce

I'm getting a little tired of people complaining about things that just aren't so. I'm also getting tired of being called names too.
I've never censured/castrated/cannibalized anyone for posting opposing views, especially opposite of my own. I HAVE sent people packing for being trolls & dickheads THOSE are the people that really piss me off.
In case you haven't figured it out yet _I_ started this thread so that JNeutron could air his complaints without hijacking the thread that you were having your argument in, that thread continues unaffected. Does that sound like the work of someone who casually deletes peoples posts?
I've done my best to let you guys air all your complaints, but I draw the line at being called names, or having my rep maligned.

[KaiWinters]

LOL sorry to laugh Geoffcin, not laughing at you, but even this thread has been hijacked.
It happens all too often but is part of the human equation.
If one were to be hard core all posts not on topic could be removed but what a pain in the ass that would be for the mod and the backlash would be worse than we see now.

To add to the hijacking I am a Paradigm fan because of the sound and how that sound affects my hearing experience but truth be told I have very, very few speakers to compare them to. Perhaps if I had a wider variety of speakers, B+W, etc. to compare/contrast I would choose a different brand but I don't so I chose what sounded best to me, and what I could afford, from the selection available.

[jneutron]

To add to the hijacking I am a Paradigm fan because.......

If you want to hijack a thread, you have to include the mandatory name calling.

Civil hijacking is not allowed..

Didn't anybody send you a program?? Can't tell the playas without a program..

Cheers, John

[FLZapped]

First of all the thread was NOT dumped anywhere. Go check you facts first.


I'm getting a little tired of people complaining about things that just aren't so. I'm also getting tired of being called names too.
I've never censured/castrated/cannibalized anyone for posting opposing views, especially opposite of my own. I HAVE sent people packing for being trolls & dickheads THOSE are the people that really piss me off.
In case you haven't figured it out yet _I_ started this thread so that JNeutron could air his complaints without hijacking the thread that you were having your argument in, that thread continues unaffected. Does that sound like the work of someone who casually deletes peoples posts?
I've done my best to let you guys air all your complaints, but I draw the line at being called names, or having my rep maligned.

You're right, my apologies, I mis read something and when I actually found the thread, I couldn't get back here quick enough to edit.....

Again, sorry, my fault.

-Bruce

[jneutron]

You're right, my apologies, I mis read something and when I actually found the thread, I couldn't get back here quick enough to edit.....

Again, sorry, my fault.

-Bruce

Uh oh...if he posts it a third time, then the middle one has to drop the antimatter at the right time..

John

[FLZapped]

2. An OBJECTIVIST poster says that increasing the wire guage increases inductance, thereby (yada yada)

Response: From the Terman equation, the geometric based inductive component is a log of the ratio of wire diameter to wire spacing. For wire geometries that look the same regardless of the scale, the external inductance will remain the same.. I have verified this via calculation and measurement.

Cheers, John

Man, that sounds extremely close to the definition for transmission line characterisitic impedance....

-Bruce
(Hi John)

[jneutron]

Man, that sounds extremely close to the definition for transmission line characterisitic impedance....

-Bruce
(Hi John)

Z_L = (^L/_C)^1/2

V_prop = ¹/(LC)^1/2

L_coax = length (inches) times 5.08 times 10^-9 Ln(^d2/_d1)

It's all interrelated..

Cheers, John

Edit:...uh oh, am I allowed to post technical equations in this forum, or will it be moved over to the lab?

(Yes, intended to be humorous, however, that is the crux of my point...the information I posted is "not welcome" at cables..or at least, this is how it appears to be presented to us by the rules of moderation.)

[Resident Loser]

Z_L = (^L/_C)^1/2

V_prop = ¹/(LC)^1/2

L_coax = length (inches) times 5.08 times 10^-9 Ln(^d2/_d1)

It's all interrelated..

Cheers, John

Edit:...uh oh, am I allowed to post technical equations in this forum, or will it be moved over to the lab?

(Yes, intended to be humorous, however, that is the crux of my point...the information I posted is "not welcome" at cables..or at least, this is how it appears to be presented to us by the rules of moderation.)

...when you get all exponential and subscript-y...

jimHJJ(...I joined the ladder/hammer club last weekend...sorta...double-ended nail claw...luckily I was hit with the flats...ba-da-bing...)

[jneutron]

...when you get all exponential and subscript-y...

Geeze, ya make it sound so dirty..

jimHJJ(...I joined the ladder/hammer club last weekend...sorta...double-ended nail claw...luckily I was hit with the flats...ba-da-bing...)

No, your kiddin me..I go and tell everybody about that on forum, and there are stoooopid people out there (like you) who didn't learn from the stupidity of other stooopid people (like me)????

Regardless of how stupid you get, just remember, your still not in my league..

I did it twice..

Cheers, John

[Geoffcin]

You're right, my apologies, I mis read something and when I actually found the thread, I couldn't get back here quick enough to edit.....

Again, sorry, my fault.

-Bruce

I'm really not the "bad moderator" the Jneutron paints me out to be.

[jneutron]

I'm really not the "bad moderator" the Jneutron paints me out to be.

Now you owe me an apology..

I have stated time and time again, you are following the rules laid out for the forum..

Are you reading challenged??? Are you far more experienced with hammers and ladders than I??

Curious minds want to know..

If you think that I can't reach you through that mouse, you are sadly mistaken..

I consider the rules of the FORUM as silly.....goose.

Cheers, John

[Geoffcin]

Now you owe me an apology..

I have stated time and time again, you are following the rules laid out for the forum..

You can state it "time and time again" but you do not understand them.

Here's a little education for you; The rules are guidelines for the moderators. The action I took was my own choice.

So, by challenging my actions you are calling my judgement flawed. (notice you are not debating with any other moderator)

I do not feel like indexing all your remarks, but words like "overreacting", "censure', and "castration" (if only in a literal way) were all used by you to discribe the actions I took.

Are you reading challenged??? Are you far more experienced with hammers and ladders than I??

Curious minds want to know..

I think it's you that should re-read some of the posts. If you had not spent all your time challenging everything that was written, you would see that I DID get it, and I DID removed my objection to FLZapped's post. FLZapped understood that right away. perhaps he's a bit more on-the-ball than you?

I consider the rules of the FORUM as silly.....goose. Cheers, John

And I don't. A simple difference of opinion there.

[jneutron]

You can state it "time and time again" but you do not understand them..

Umm, them being what? The rules?

Here's a little education for you; The rules are guidelines for the moderators. The action I took was my own choice..

Wow, guess I was asleep in class that day.

So, by challenging my actions you are calling my judgement flawed. (notice you are not debating with any other moderator).

Challenging your actions...sheesh, you with the violent tendencies...

What I have been saying all along, is that you have been following the rules of the forum as laid out by the "higher ups".

In reality, what I HAVE been doing all along, is giving you the benefit of the doubt, allowing you the avenue of escape that you are following the guidelines in your decisions. I have been keeping open an easy "out" for you, regardless of the popularity or lack thereof, of any moderating decisions you choose to make.

Now, you have simply decided to toss out the window, any benefit of the doubt...now you are staking ownership of any and all decisions to quash any discussion regarding actual technical stuff in the cable forum.

You will eventually learn to recognize when others are keeping doors open for you, instead of trying to box you into a corner..maybe not yet, but perhaps in the future.

Stop thinking that I am your enemy. That is a silly attitude..

I am not "debating" any other moderators simply because other moderators have not chosen to use their power to move discussion which they do not like..

I do not feel like indexing all your remarks, but words like "overreacting", "censure', and "castration" (if only in a literal way) were all used by you to discribe the actions I took. .

They were all used to show what the ramifications of enforcement of a one sided discussion is. It is censureship, disguised as protection of a fraction of the population....no more, no less.

I think it's you that should re-read some of the posts. If you had not spent all your time challenging everything that was written, you would see that I DID get it, and I DID removed my objection to FLZapped's post. FLZapped understood that right away. perhaps he's a bit more on-the-ball than you?.

Do you not read your private messages? Did I not commend you for removing your objection to flz's post? Or, was it too convienient to forget that, as it would not support your argument..

It must be noted that you posted the objection, and you moved it once it was pointed out what it looked like. Now you write it out as if it was your idea all along to move it..sheesh..

A simple difference of opinion there.

Differences of opinion are fine..it is a shame you are not allowing that in cables..

Cheers, John

[Geoffcin]

Stop thinking that I am your enemy. That is a silly attitude..

But I don't hold it against you.

Differences of opinion are fine..it is a shame you are not allowing that in cables..

Cheers, John

Back to square one with this. For the record; debate IS allowed in the cables forum. It's still going on as we speak....

[cam]

I feel for you Geoffcin, it's like you are running up hill in mashed potatoes, blindfolded, with both arms tied behind your back all while being pelted by bags of $hit. It's a thankless job but somebody has to do it.