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Thread: Bose? BOSE?

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    Bose? BOSE?

    I just saw that the Bose 301 has been added to the Best Speakers Under $500 thread. I also saw that Bose computer speakers have rated a Editorial Review. What the he!!? Until now, Bose speakers have been in the "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" category...and justifiably so. What's changed? I don't suppose that having some of the deepest pockets in the audio industry would have anything to do with it...would it?
    Last edited by RoyY51; 08-22-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Do you have any experience with the 301 speakers or you just going by the brand?

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    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Of all the Bose speakers I've heard, the 301's were the best for the bang IMO. I have no problem with them making the list.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Unfortunately no money made it into my pocket from Bose to add those to the list.

    But on another note - thanks for looking at the list - just curious why you don't put your comments on that page versus back here in the forums?

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    I have heard the 301's on several occasions, and my impressions have always been the same: passable mid-range, mushy bass and non-existent highs. I can think of several under-$500 speakers, including my own Monitor Audio B2's, that blow them out of the water, and yet, none of them made the list. I also question the timing: the 301's, which have been on the market for many years and never made ANYONE'S "Best Of" list, all of a sudden appear on AR's "Under $500" list at exactly the same time that the Bose computer speakers are given an Editorial Review on the same coveted side panel. Are we suppose to think that the Bose's 3.6 AR review score suddenly qualifies for inclusion in "Best Of" features? There are dozens and dozens of bookshelf speakers in your "Reviews" section with better scores, that were not included. Why didn't they make the list?

    I ask again: is there another game afoot?

    aA: I didn't realize that there WAS a "comments" section in the "Best Of" threads.

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    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Roy - no game - I swear. Just trying to make sure we keep in line with the trending market and what is e-commerce related. What currently available and able to purchase online or direct from manufacturer online bookshelf would you replace it with?

    I'm honestly surprised, and very delighted that you are paying attention to other parts of the site. I feel so often that folks in the forums don't bother to read anything else except what is in the forum post. Well I'm glad to say I have your attention.

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    aA: Excellent tap dancer though you may be, you still have not answered my questions. I asked you why the dozens of bookshelf speakers that are ranked higher than Bose 301's are not on the "Best Of" list , and you respond: "What currently available and able to purchase on-line or direct from manufacturer online bookshelf speakers would you replace it with?" On line? Direct from manufacturer? When did this become a criterion for your "Best Of" products? If it were, Bose would definitely not qualify. They are in any store that is willing to give them an exclusive (non-comparable) retail environment.

    The answer to your question is the same as I have already asked: "Why are the dozens of speakers that are ranked higher than Bose 301's, not on the "Best Of" list?

    P.S. If you cannot respond honestly, I understand. You work for the people who own this site, and you are paid to do what they tell you to do. I work for Home Depot...it's the same thing.
    Last edited by RoyY51; 08-23-2011 at 06:34 PM.

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    Your silence speaks volumes...

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    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Why are you so worked up over speakers that are very popular with the masses? I wish I had a dollar for every pair of Bose 301's sold in a year. I used to sell Bose when I was an audio salesman. I did not sell them they sold themselves. I think they have decent bass and the two tweeters do a nice job with creating an open sound. Not to my liking for all music but I could enjoy a pair of 901's for some recordings. I would rather have 301's over some other speakers I can think of that I have heard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Why are you so worked up over speakers that are very popular with the masses? I wish I had a dollar for every pair of Bose 301's sold in a year. I used to sell Bose when I was an audio salesman. I did not sell them they sold themselves. I think they have decent bass and the two tweeters do a nice job with creating an open sound. Not to my liking for all music but I could enjoy a pair of 901's for some recordings. I would rather have 301's over some other speakers I can think of that I have heard.
    My concerns are not directed at the Bose 301's, or any other particular speaker. My concerns are for the credibility of Audio Review itself. I'm sure that 100's, if not 1000's of buying decisions have been influenced by the AR "Best of" reviews. I, myself, have referenced the "Best Floorstanders Under a $1000" to recommend speakers to a friend. Now, I can no longer do so. If a 3.6 rated speaker can make it into a "Best of" category, it casts suspicion on the rest of the inclusions as well.

    If Bose (or any other manufacturer) wants to run an ad on AR, then all well and good. But please don't try to disguise it as a fair and impartial review. It cheapens what so many of us have tried to accomplish here: the dissemination of truthful, factual information.

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    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Actually Roy I've been swamped and had family in town. I'll have a response for you shortly. But this past week I've had to finish up two reviews, review and address product data feed issues, import tools, a new design and layout for a new navigation and header, so frankly I've been busy.

    Not to mention I started two classes for pre-recs for grad school and just general life issues. You'll have to forgive me for not being so prompt in responding to someone who is getting rather worked up.

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    Worked up? No. Just saddened and disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyY51 View Post
    Worked up? No. Just saddened and disappointed.
    I just looked at the Top 100 link for the first time after reading this post.

    Roy, did you notice all the other Bose gear in the Top 100 list, some with lower scores than the 301s?

    My big chuckle came as the Wave Radio at 3.12 points, is directly above a Parasound A21 Amp at 4.9 points.


    But then I realized it's a top 100 list of searches over the last week, not a top 100 list as it says at the top of the page.

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    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Hyfi -

    That is a good point. It is search related - not by rating. That is fine because a high search volume is almost more of an indicator of popularity and/or quality than just a rating. For instance, I can rate the Melody AN211 as a 5 - but that would like 1 vote vs maybe the 296 votes and 4.71 rating of the MMG. And I know there are a lot of folks on this forum that would rate the MMG's lower.

    Roy -

    Fact of the matter is that AudioReview is going in a new direction. We are going to be focusing more and more on consumer level products that can be purchased on line. On line is where we are at and as much as I might like some niche off brand that isn't what the majority of folks are searching for or reading reviews on. So even if you and many other might consider the 301 to not be worthy of being on the list, one can't deny their sales volume and the fact that many people do honestly like them very much and consider them the best from what they've heard, in this price point.

    Sure they aren't 'audiophile' speakers, but frankly no speaker at that price point is. Some do a lot of things right, but $500 is a consumer price point.

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    Now I understand...

    Just remember..."change of direction" is usually followed by "change in staffing".

    Watch your backside, Adam.

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    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyY51 View Post
    Just remember..."change of direction" is usually followed by "change in staffing".

    Watch your backside, Adam.


    Only if you are rigid and cannot flow with the change.
    JohnMichael
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    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Roy -

    Good point - but like JM said - only if you can't flow. And I can flow my friend, I can flow.

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    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Roy, I share your sentiments. I found the 301's to sound awful. As you described, mushy bass, no treble and no musicality at all, a very boring and flat sound. I thought that they were one of the worst sounding speakers that I have heard. My daughters infinity Primus 160's at 1/2 the cost sound much better. We listened to both at the store when I bought the Infinity's.
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    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Roy, I share your sentiments. I found the 301's to sound awful. As you described, mushy bass, no treble and no musicality at all, a very boring and flat sound. I thought that they were one of the worst sounding speakers that I have heard. My daughters infinity Primus 160's at 1/2 the cost sound much better. We listened to both at the store when I bought the Infinity's.
    I have two pair of the Primus 150's. They are one heck of a bang for the buck set of speakers. I assume that they made the list too.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael View Post
    I have two pair of the Primus 150's. They are one heck of a bang for the buck set of speakers. I assume that they made the list too.
    Then you would assume incorrectly.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Stereophile magazine rated the infinity 150's a best budget speaker.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
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  22. #22
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I had a pair of Bose 4.2 once when I was a kid and liked them then but I had yet to hear a real high end speaker until a year or so later. They were ok for the mass market of people out there that just want descent sound without worrying about sweet spots or how much power they need and can just set them up and go. I am not a Bose fan by any means but they do have a market which is people that don't want to shop very long for audio and want good sound without the time to look around at what else it out there. And by the way the 4.2's were the some as the 301's

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  23. #23
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I think that people that buy bose speakers really dont know about good sound and just go with a brand that they associate with good sound because of Bose's exceptional marketing. The other problem is that there are very few mom and pop shops left and people just go to BB and the like which carries dreck for the most part except for the Magnolia stores. Just walk through one of the Giant retail stores and they all carry JBL, Polk, Sony, Pioneer and Yamaha speakers. There is not much to choose from. Its very easy to see how people would gravitate to Bose given the choices. I would like to see them carry some of the lower end speaks from PSB, Monitor Audio, NHT etc.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
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    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

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    I always thought of Bose home audio in the..well, it;s small and convenient category. Portable audio, though, I thought was in a different league.

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    3LB
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    No, Bose isn't hi-end, yes they're overpriced, but,

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    I think that people that buy bose speakers really dont know about good sound and just go with a brand that they associate with good sound because of Bose's exceptional marketing.
    People don't care about sound quality. Most peoples' music listening is limited to computer, car, or MP3 player. Most people eye's glaze over when you start talking bitrates to them. Same with audiophilia. Its not that the Bose are good - they're good enough. And they're cute too! But that's the way mass consumerism is. Look at pop music. Just look at what passes for musical talent. Does it matter what speaker you hear Katy Perry on?

    Let's face it, audiophilia was never good at reaching out to the masses. Its always been an exclusive club that's hard to break into, and hard to keep up once you do. Its not just about Bose either. I've read disparaging commets about Polk Audio, Genesis, Boston Acoustics, etc, speakers that were considred the higher end of the mass market at one time but now draw derision... people can't and won't keep up with that kind of stuff, "factual" based biases or not. It just smacks of effort.

    Audiophilia is high maintenance of the highest order. You can't tell people what kind of music they should like. You can't tell them what is suppose to sound good to them. You can't use terms like soundstaging and accuracy with regards to studio manipulated music. You can't tell them their super expensive esoteric gear needs replacing every two years. (guess what, just about every stand-alone home stereo is esoteric nowadays) If you want to beat the Boses of the world, you have to play in their arena. Hundreds of audiophile speaker companies have come and gone in the last 40 years. Bose is still around.

    But, keep fighting that good fight guys.
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