Digital TV over the air

[02audionoob]

Does anyone here watch digital TV over the air? If so, what has been your experience with the reception? How many channels do you get? Do you live in an urban area? What kind of antenna do you use? As for myself...I live in Dallas, well inside the city limits. The major network affiliates broadcast from a high, hilly area just south of town. I can't get the local FOX, ABC or NBC affiliates with rabbit ears, a standard roof antenna or an amplified rabbit-ear antenna.

[Mr Peabody]

You didn't give a lot of info so forgive me if some of this is too basic.

You should be getting reception. First you have to have the proper tuner, ATSC. Then you have to go into your HDTV's set up menu and tell it to scan for "digital" stations. If you hook up an antenna and expect them to just show up, well forget about it, they don't, been there . After the scan you then should be able to use your up/down tuning button to find them. They will show up as for example, "5" being the analog, then next will be "5.1" the digital HD, some even offer more than one digital station. Your PBS affiliate may be your best bet to see that, mine offers 9 thru 9.4. I pick mine up with a Radio Shack rabbit ear thing, it has two telescoping adjustable poles with a triangle thing in the middle and a knob to choose something. It does alright but the stations should boom in crystal clear with an outdoor antenna. Some TV's you may even have to select in the menu "digital" tuner. My Sharp LCD in the bedroom even has separate antenna inputs for analog/digital. I think your problem may hopefully be just a set up issue. I can't imagine you not being able to get a station from an outdoor antenna. Now if it's an old antenna be sure it is made to pick up UHF, HD stations/digital are UHF.

Let me know what happens.

[02audionoob]

I appreciate the info. I'll try another scan with the antenna in different positions. I do get the local CBS affiliate on 11.1 and PBS on 13.1. My little Sony LCD in the bedroom was very easy to set up, and picks up several digital channels from the roof antenna...but never ABC, usually not NBC and sometimes not FOX. My Toshiba CRT TV on a converter gets pretty much the same from rabbit ears as the Sony does from the roof antenna, except in recent weeks the Toshiba has been worse.

[pixelthis]

When I got my first HDTV my cable company wasnt carrying the
stations from the largest city near here.
DVDs looked great but it wasnt enough.
So I got a UHF antenna and put it on a 30ft MAST,
GOT several stations in HD with a samsung standalone tuner.
The main thing you are probably doing wrong is using a VHF antenna,
HD stations are broadcast on UHF.
Also they are highly directional , so you will need a rotator.
Radio shack makes an exelent 39$ V shaped UHF antenna, that on a ten ft mast on top of your house should do it.
Rabbit ears should work, again the shack has a uhf specific model,
there are several HD models that are basically UHF labeled HD.

The pic was quite good where I was, but I kept hearing that the
channels would come in or not, either full on or nothing.
NOT TRUE! Like a digital sat, you would get a weak signal but it would
"pixelize" every once in awhile.
If your set has a QAM tuner you might be able to get some HD on cable,
my cable system has some unscrambled HD , local stations, mostly.
On Balance I pretty much gave up on broadcast, too much hassle,
but I was able to pick up several stations, most fifty miles away or further, longest was 90 miles, but that happened ONCE.
Its not worth the trouble when SAT and cable have so many options,
really, just my two cents

[02audionoob]

I didn't know the rabbit ears labeled HD were any different than the usual rabbit ears. I figured that comment on the package was just confirming what they could do all along. Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try one.

My reason for not using cable or satellite TV at these is to avoid having the cable box and extra remote at each set. The missus doesn't like too many extra gadgets around. We just use these extra sets for watching the major networks...mostly news, prime-time programs and occasional sports. They currently don't even have DVD players attached. The CRT set and converter will eventually be replaced by a small LCD...perhaps soon.

[pixelthis]

I didn't know the rabbit ears labeled HD were any different than the usual rabbit ears. I figured that comment on the package was just confirming what they could do all along. Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try one.

My reason for not using cable or satellite TV at these is to avoid having the cable box and extra remote at each set. The missus doesn't like too many extra gadgets around. We just use these extra sets for watching the major networks...mostly news, prime-time programs and occasional sports. They currently don't even have DVD players attached. The CRT set and converter will eventually be replaced by a small LCD...perhaps soon.

Like I said, a "HD" RABBIT EARS is basically a repackaged uhf antenna.
If all you want is broadcast and live in a urban area than broadcast
is fine.
But in feb 09 you will need extra gadgets if your sets are SD, basically
a converter box for each SD set.
Standard def is going "dark"
The govt is handing out discount coupons (2 per house) so you can continue watching TV on a SD set but the only alternative will be buying a new HD set.

[Mr Peabody]

I heard on the news that flat screen prices are going to drop after Thanksgiving, they said don't be surprised to see a 32" for as low as $350.00.

[02audionoob]

I got myself a UHF antenna today. Put it on the TV and got almost exactly what I get with rabbit ears. Among the digital channels...No Fox, no ABC. Occasional NBC. Good CBS and PBS. Too bad. I guess the experiment is over. I must be in some sort of weak zone.

[Woochifer]

Just got a HDTV over the weekend, and while waiting for Directv to install a new dish and HD receiver, I plugged in a pair of rabbit ears from our bedroom TV and it actually works quite well. I get the Fox, NBC, and CBS affiliates, but get nothing from the ABC and PBS affiliates. Plus, most of the other indie stations don't come in either. I've already found that most stations multicast their DTV broadcasts. For example, the local NBC affiliate has a multicast channel that does 24/7 local weather updates.

The ability to pull in digital broadcasts depends on how well your area can pull in UHF signals in general, since those are the carrier frequencies for DTV signals. There is no such thing as a "HDTV" antenna per se, since all they're doing is capturing UHF signals. At my parents' house in SoCal, they can't pull any DTV signals using rabbit ears or an amplified directional UHF antenna downstairs. Their upstairs bedroom TV can pull VHF channels, but only a handful of UHF stations.

[Woochifer]

I heard on the news that flat screen prices are going to drop after Thanksgiving, they said don't be surprised to see a 32" for as low as $350.00.

The Black Friday specials always include some rock bottom pricing on flat panel TVs. Th question is whether that pricing holds throughout the holiday season and into the new year, because that doesn't always happen. My understanding is that retailers have cut back on their orders big time, and LCD plants had already cut production back, so I don't know if this would be a permanent price drop. For one thing, the sluggish economy has already accelerated price point declines on HDTVs. The Panny HDTV I just got carried a list price of $2,000 when it came out in March, and now it's going for $1,400 at Costco.

[pixelthis]

The Black Friday specials always include some rock bottom pricing on flat panel TVs. Th question is whether that pricing holds throughout the holiday season and into the new year, because that doesn't always happen. My understanding is that retailers have cut back on their orders big time, and LCD plants had already cut production back, so I don't know if this would be a permanent price drop. For one thing, the sluggish economy has already accelerated price point declines on HDTVs. The Panny HDTV I just got carried a list price of $2,000 when it came out in March, and now it's going for $1,400 at Costco.

I have heard the 350 price rumour.
AND its a good time to buy if you have the cash.
The TV stores are empty practically.
But that price you got is good no matter what.
Dont be sad when prices drop even more, as they will, you have to get off the sidelines sometimes.
Three years ago, a VIZIO 32", 720P ----1,000
Two years ago, a VIZIO 37", 720P ------1,000 (bought that one
A month ago, a VIZIO 42, (1080P)-----899!
And last sunday, an Olevia 46" 1080p-----949!
still happy about mine tho, as you should be about yours

[Mr Peabody]

That's a bummer on your reception. It sounds like you've done what you should it must either be the stations weak signal or some kind of interference.

[02audionoob]

My wife speculates the problem is physical obstacles, such as the downtown high-rise buildings that are in the direction of the broadcast towers.

[pixelthis]

My wife speculates the problem is physical obstacles, such as the downtown high-rise buildings that are in the direction of the broadcast towers.

That could be it.
Truth is, regular ntsc wasnt always the best in the world.
And ATSC (HDTV) came about in an age of cable, sat, etc.
They wont admit it but the poor ability of ATSC to "keep lock" while moving proves it out, HDTV was created for the modern age.
If you live in an urban area then fine, you can pick up a half dozen stations, and their simulcast cohorts.
But most wont meet the citeria, or wont even try.
Truth is, with sat or cable you are looking at 50 to a 100 HD stations,
minimum, and most of the ones on a board like this arent even going to think about broadcast.
The perception of broadcast (at least in the minds of marketers) has been that of really cheap people(who dont buy much by nature) or
people who live in hotels you rent by the week, with a flashing HOTEL
sign outside the window.
That is not who marketers target , as a general rule.
Truth is, most modern media is aimed at people who buy
stuff, stuff like cable service and dish systems, not people who just hang an attenna out the window.

[02audionoob]

I suppose it's true the market is directed at cable and satellite. We do in fact have cable and HD at home...so this isn't about being too cheap to buy cable...but the digital channels require a cable receiver box and of course the wire. We have the full setup in the den. There are four more places in the house where I'd like to have a TV (if you count TV cards on the computers), and a detached garage, but I really don't want five more cable boxes and I don't want to run a wire to the garage. It would seem a little bit of overkill to have a cable box in the guest room or the kitchen or anywhere else one might put a small TV.

[Woochifer]

I suppose it's true the market is directed at cable and satellite. We do in fact have cable and HD at home...so this isn't about being too cheap to buy cable...but the digital channels require a cable receiver box and of course the wire. We have the full setup in the den. There are four more places in the house where I'd like to have a TV (if you count TV cards on the computers), and a detached garage, but I really don't want five more cable boxes and I don't want to run a wire to the garage. It would seem a little bit of overkill to have a cable box in the guest room or the kitchen or anywhere else one might put a small TV.

The need for a cable box would depend on whether your cable company sends the DTV channels unscrambled through the line. At my parents' house, none of the DTV channels are sent through their basic cable service. But, in my neighborhood, Comcast does send the DTV feeds for the local broadcast channels unscrambled and all you need is the cable and an ATSC tuner.

[Mr Peabody]

In addition to what Wooch said, some TV's have the Cable Card feature where a credit card size board is inserted into the TV and allows it to decode the signal. Also Panasonic and a few others have TV's with the cable box built into it.

Pix, I think you are a bit off base. Because one don't buy cable or satelite don't make them cheap. If I had tried my off air before getting locked int a deal with satelite I may not have it now. I really don't watch TV that much, my wife watches those network shows like ER and L.A. Law etc and the kids with their cartoons. Our PBS station has a 24 hour PBS Kids channel. If I had found that, man, I wouldn't be paying anything. When I watch TV it's usually a disc based movie in my HT system.

Anyway before I got side tracked, what makes me think you are off base is the fact that our local stations are running what can only be called mini infomercials to inform people about the switch to DTV on 2/17. In the beginning of the clip they estimate about 18% of the people in our area still use antenna. That's much higher than I would have guessed. Maybe we have a high rate of poverty or maybe people have principles and don't like paying money to a service, and I use that word loosely, to a company that for the most part don't know the meaning of. Most consumers have forgot they can choose with their pocket book. Would you say a person who gets burned on the stove would go back and do the same thing again? Yet, we keep feeding the cable company or whoever every month. Let's face it, the electric and gas companies have us in a vice and there's not much we can do about it except try to conserve but a person will actually live if they didn't have cable or satelite.

[02audionoob]

Being cheap is a matter of considerable subjectivity. After all, if people weren't cheap, there would be little or no market for those off-brand LCD TV's you see everywhere.

[Mr Peabody]

That may be budget challenged, cheap is when you buy those TV's that are still 480i but have an ATSC tuner for some where under $200.00. Or, you still have a console and you get a certificate for the converter.

Or, what about the guy who splices into his neighbors cable while the neighbors at work to run a feed to his house, then wants to call the cable company to ***** when the cables out in his area. Sounds like Rich, don't it?

[pixelthis]

The need for a cable box would depend on whether your cable company sends the DTV channels unscrambled through the line. At my parents' house, none of the DTV channels are sent through their basic cable service. But, in my neighborhood, Comcast does send the DTV feeds for the local broadcast channels unscrambled and all you need is the cable and an ATSC tuner.

This is a good point, on my sets QAM tuner I can get HD local channels over basic cable without a box.
Would come in handy if I ever had to "give up the box"