FCC fines retailers over TV labeling

[Smokey]

Federal regulators yesterday fined Sears, Wal-Mart, Best Buy and other retailers a combined $3.9 million for not properly using labels indicating that analog-only televisions will need to be retrofitted after the switch to digital-TV broadcasts next year.

An FCC rule, adopted last May, requires retailers to display or affix to analog-only TV equipment a "consumer alert" label that says it will not receive signals after the nationwide transition to digital broadcasts without a special converter box. The rule is meant to keep consumers from buying equipment that will not work after the digital switch on Feb. 17 next year.

The actions included a fine of $992,000 against Wal-Mart; about $1.1 million against Sears; $712,000 against Circuit City Stores; $296,000 against Target and $280,000 against Best Buy Co.

The FCC, which conducted numerous inspections last June, said it initially issued warnings to companies whose Web sites and stores across the country were in violation of the rule. The agency said it gave each company "a reasonable opportunity" to respond.

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3756

[Rich-n-Texas]

Good going FCC. Strike one against short sighted greed mongers.

[pixelthis]

I havent seen too much of this.
I have seen analog sets, true, but they are always clearly labeled.
You buy a TV, you need to do a little research.
I have no sympathy for someone who doesnt get , in the blizzard of tv ADS,
newspaper articles, internet info, that a analog set is a bad idea.
not to mention that a analog only set exceeding 20 inches is really a dinosaur
these days.
wallfart has several SD tv sets, true, but I have seen that they have digital tuners

[hermanv]

Good going FCC. Strike one against short sighted greed mongers.

Greed, yes, but I'm guessing they were using underpaid and under trained labor. Temporary workers with no benefits. Most of these kinds of workers can't make change, much less differentiate between analog and digital TV.

I just don't know why otherwise smart companies refuse to see the total costs of short sighted policies. Save some money on salaries, pay fines to the FCC. There are other hidden costs, returned goods because you were sold a MAC compatible computer gizmo for your PC, etc, etc. Once you burn a few customers it gets harder and harder to recover. I guess you just blame the economy and ask for corporate welfare.

Remember Comp USA? All the computer skills their workers had were anecdotal mostly from their friends. There was no training, 'course no one worked there longer than 6 months, so there was no cumulative on the job experience. See how well these policies worked for them?

As an EE I watched the rise of outsourcing electronic design. Not one project I was involved in (3 to China, 1 to India and 1 to Germany) met schedule or performance goals. Then at the last minute endless air travel in an attempt to fix the chaos.

One company flew all 30 Chinese engineers on their project to the US, put them up in hotels for 30 days while experienced US engineers redesigned, recovered and made their hopeless design work (the beauty of no overtime salaried US employees). None of those costs were budgeted to the engineering department who happily reported that development costs were down. Lying as a business model. That Co. is out of business, wonder why?

Please excuse the rant, but I think our country is suffering from a massive stupidity infection.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...As an EE I watched the rise of outsourcing electronic design. Not one project I was involved in (3 to China, 1 to India and 1 to Germany) met schedule or performance goals. Then at the last minute endless air travel in an attempt to fix the chaos...

Jeeezus! Mister, you must be psychic!

-OR-

You work for the same company I do.

-OR-

This country's Electronics manufacturing industry is in bigger trouble than I thought.

[hermanv]

Jeeezus! Mister, you must be psychic!

This country's Electronics manufacturing industry is in bigger trouble than I thought.

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it were just electronics. A country just like a family has to sell something to generate income. Some countries sell labor, some sell resources and others sell products.

Once upon a time the US made some of the most sought after cars in the world, sadly that's no longer true. In order to increase short term profit, you teach a country with low labor costs how to make cars. Then, guess what? They use the knowledge you accumulated over several decades to make their own cars.

Now Detroit is in trouble - duh. Of course the brilliant MBA graduates decided that they should not just make cars, they should handle their own credit to help sell cars. Since there was no corporate financial culture they got themselves in deep trouble. Decide what it is you want to do, get good at it, and thrive. How hard is that to understand?

No one could touch us for our electronic expertise. So what do we do, use our own talent to train others, now I can't think of any major electronic device made by the USA. Our dollar keeps getting devalued, largely because we have nothing to sell. We keep buying foreign goods that we used to make here. Those foreign countries end up with stacks and stacks of American dollars, this pretty much forces them to buy up either American real estate or American corporations, what else are they going to do with all those dollars? After all no one else wants those dollars either.

The Russian economy collapsed because they couldn't afford the cold war. Our economy might collapse because a few short sighted already rich and powerful families want even more. My home lost over 100 thousand in value the last couple of years, I see this as money stolen from me to enrich a few banks or Wall street firms.

How that for staying "on topic"?

[Feanor]

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it were just electronics. A country just like a family has to sell something to generate income. Some countries sell labor, some sell resources and others sell products.
...

No one could touch us for our electronic expertise. So what do we do, use our own talent to train others, now I can't think of any major electronic device made by the USA. Our dollar keeps getting devalued, largely because we have nothing to sell. We keep buying foreign goods that we used to make here. Those foreign countries end up with stacks and stacks of American dollars, this pretty much forces them to buy up either American real estate or American corporations, what else are they going to do with all those dollars? After all no one else wants those dollars either.
...

How that for staying "on topic"?

The other factor, one might add, are the foreign wars that US is fighting. They cost gigantic amounts of money, causing the US Fed to run huge deficits which require huge borrowing (a lot of it from ... China) which drives up interest rates up which precipitated the sub-prime fiasco. Life is so complicated.

The US economy would have been in trouble anyway, but that fool, GWB, hugely exacerbated and hastened the problem. Two big lies were (1) that Saddam's Iraq had something to do with Al-Queda, and (2) that he had WMD. Smart people doubted these things back in '02, (guess that leaves out HIlary), but Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld had to have their way despite all rationality.

[hermanv]

Weapons may be the last US growth industry. We outsell all others. Maybe the wars had more than one hidden motive?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it were just electronics. A country just like a family has to sell something to generate income. Some countries sell labor, some sell resources and others sell products.

Once upon a time the US made some of the most sought after cars in the world, sadly that's no longer true. In order to increase short term profit, you teach a country with low labor costs how to make cars. Then, guess what? They use the knowledge you accumulated over several decades to make their own cars.

Now Detroit is in trouble - duh. Of course the brilliant MBA graduates decided that they should not just make cars, they should handle their own credit to help sell cars. Since there was no corporate financial culture they got themselves in deep trouble. Decide what it is you want to do, get good at it, and thrive. How hard is that to understand?

No one could touch us for our electronic expertise. So what do we do, use our own talent to train others, now I can't think of any major electronic device made by the USA. Our dollar keeps getting devalued, largely because we have nothing to sell. We keep buying foreign goods that we used to make here. Those foreign countries end up with stacks and stacks of American dollars, this pretty much forces them to buy up either American real estate or American corporations, what else are they going to do with all those dollars? After all no one else wants those dollars either.

The Russian economy collapsed because they couldn't afford the cold war. Our economy might collapse because a few short sighted already rich and powerful families want even more. My home lost over 100 thousand in value the last couple of years, I see this as money stolen from me to enrich a few banks or Wall street firms.

How that for staying "on topic"?

Every single syllable to typed hermanv. X10!!! You nailed it to the cross!

[Rich-n-Texas]

How did I know you'd try to turn this into f***ing republican bashing BILL? Left wing jerk. And the US wars don't cost you habs any money now do they? Another thing, when McCain gets elected, I hope he sticks to his promise about re-thinking NAFTA.

[hermanv]

Getting back to our friends, the FCC: It used to be that to use "public" spectrum you had to do public service announcements, news was considered a public service announcement. Once that rule was eliminated, the corporations that owned the TV stations quickly converted news departments into a profit sector. Now it doesn't matter if it's in the public interest, it only matters that that time segment makes money. They sort of made it into a moving picture version of the Enquirer.

It's my personal opinion that this was one of the powerful forces that started the decline of our great nation. Privatization (giving things that the taxpayer owns to corporations) sucks.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sorry hermanv. I lost composure there for a minute. (I'm still an hour away from my first Tequilla shot of the weekend.)

And now a word from our for-profit sponsor: Blue Cross Blue Shield NA.

[Feanor]

How did I know you'd try to turn this into f***ing republican bashing BILL? Left wing jerk. And the US wars don't cost you habs any money now do they? Another thing, when McCain gets elected, I hope he sticks to his promise about re-thinking NAFTA.

'Fraid they do: Canadian troops are fighting in Afganistan. Did you not know that? Yes, and I do mean fighting, unlike other NATO members with cushy duties in the north of the country, etc. Thank goodness we aren't also in Iraq: guess that's why the Canadian dollar has risen for 66 cents US to parity.

What's wrong with bashing the "f***ing Republicans"? It's not like they don't deserve it. I'm not unduly worried about McCain being elected, but of course Barack and Hilary are at least as likely to reopen NAFTA as he is. After all, they're the ones more concerned about the Amerian workers. McCain's a Repulican remember? They're for the rich and the Christion Right; (there's an oxymoron if ever there was one).

[Mr Peabody]

Now if the FCC would start laying fines on those behind HDMI. Man, talking about misguiding the public. The same companies behind it, put out the gear that isn't compatible or only partially compatible.

This is from a conservative, the Republicans need a good kick in the rump. GWB is one of our countries worst presidents. Look at the party, they didn't even have a decent candidate. McCain once had my respect about 8 years ago when he was a maverick talking about campaign reform and blood on the Senate floor. It wasn't about a week or so after Bush got elected they stuffed a sock in McCain's mouth and taught him to march in line. For months we heard hype from the media about the golden boy Fred Thompson, wow, was there egg on faces a plenty, he was stupider than any 5th grader. TN should have impeached him, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone not know so much about their job. He's getting paid to keep a seat warm. He probably couldn't find the U.S. on a map. If the Republicans have any good men waiting in the wings they are laying low as to not get Bush stink on them, they want to preserve what may be left of a political career. Aside from what has already been mentioned Bush is trying to contract out the entire federal government to his buddies who bought his presidency, he is an aggressive union buster and virtually eliminated the "middle class" with the poor, poorer and the rich, richer. Now we are seeing what happens when you give a Bush too much rope.

[StevenSurprenant]

Does anyone know why the goverment made digital mandatory?

Why the rush?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Because they want the OTA frequency spectrum back. I think the military is going to use it to brain-zap the Talibon in Afganistan so all our troops can get out of there.

[StevenSurprenant]

Because they want the OTA frequency spectrum back. I think the military is going to use it to brain-zap the Talibon in Afganistan so all our troops can get out of there.

VERY Funny!

Okay, it is clear to me now. Why didn't I think of that. It was right there in front of me all the time.

[hermanv]

I used to work for a company called Conrac making high performance video monitors for industry and government. Back in the late 1960's we made a set with 1215 scan lines and 35MHz video bandwidth. As you night guess the picture was stunning compared to the NTSC 525 scan lines and ~5 MHz bandwidth. The set was vacuum tube based, so the idea of a rush to a better technology is somewhat exaggerated.

The big problem is that for an analog signal doubling either the scan rate (like up to 1080i) or the bandwidth also doubles the radio frequency spectrum space required. For todays best HDTV signals (1080p) about 10 times the radio spectrum space would be needed if the signal was sent in straight analog format.

MPEG is a lossless compression algorithm that allows this 10 to 1 improvement to be sent digitally over a bandwidth very similar to the old NTSC TV signal bandwidth. Since TV signals are basically line of sight and since the HDTV signal in not compatible in any way with an old analog set, the entire spectrum was moved higher in frequency to some of the older UHF spectrum.

The channel 2 to 13 VHF spectrum is in high demand for portable, personal and government services. VHF (very high frequency) was a difficult technology in the early days of television. It's hardly difficult with todays devices and we would not describe it as very high frequency today. In fact small battery operated handheld devices are easily built for those frequencies today.

The mandatory switchover to digital TV was first planned for 2007 it was delayed to allow the industry and the consumer more time to prepare for the transition.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You're so technical hermanv.

I like my explanation better... Hey, it's the thought that counts right?

Oh, I forgot. You're a double E aren't ya?

[hermanv]

Double E, trophy wife?.

Damn, wrong kind of double E.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Every single syllable to typed hermanv. X10!!! You nailed it to the cross!

Get down off that cross, somebody needs the wood

[Rich-n-Texas]

It's MY wood. I'm using it for my new fence.

[pixelthis]

I used to work for a company called Conrac making high performance video monitors for industry and government. Back in the late 1960's we made a set with 1215 scan lines and 35MHz video bandwidth. As you night guess the picture was stunning compared to the NTSC 525 scan lines and ~5 MHz bandwidth. The set was vacuum tube based, so the idea of a rush to a better technology is somewhat exaggerated.

The big problem is that for an analog signal doubling either the scan rate (like up to 1080i) or the bandwidth also doubles the radio frequency spectrum space required. For todays best HDTV signals (1080p) about 10 times the radio spectrum space would be needed if the signal was sent in straight analog format.

MPEG is a lossless compression algorithm that allows this 10 to 1 improvement to be sent digitally over a bandwidth very similar to the old NTSC TV signal bandwidth. Since TV signals are basically line of sight and since the HDTV signal in not compatible in any way with an old analog set, the entire spectrum was moved higher in frequency to some of the older UHF spectrum.

The channel 2 to 13 VHF spectrum is in high demand for portable, personal and government services. VHF (very high frequency) was a difficult technology in the early days of television. It's hardly difficult with todays devices and we would not describe it as very high frequency today. In fact small battery operated handheld devices are easily built for those frequencies today.

The mandatory switchover to digital TV was first planned for 2007 it was delayed to allow the industry and the consumer more time to prepare for the transition.

Probably where the japanese got the idea for their HD system.
A lot of the sets I worked on in Electronics class still had tubes in some of the high power sections, so I can appreciate this feat.
But I beleive you misspoke, isnt MPEG a lossy codec?
Also we still have to send a signal via 1080i, which is then deinterlaced.
Which is probably the most efficent way to send 1080p right now

[Rich-n-Texas]

I may be wrong ( ) but I think MPEG 4 is lossless. Or is it uncompressed?

[hermanv]

pixelthis is right (it was bound to happen eventually) MPEG is usually configured as a lossy compressor, if significant data reduction is the goal..

From Media Matters LLC
Two complementary image compression schemes are in widespread use: JPEG and MPEG, along with some other, less standardized options. The original JPEG has been used for many years in compressing full color images. JPEG-2000 uses wavelet compression as adopted for the Digital Cinema Initiative (DCI), and enables true lossless compression. MPEG-4 is being adopted rapidly for transmission of audio, video and other data at lower bit-rates for similar quality compared to previous MPEG standards. MPEG-4 part 10 Advanced Video Coding, also known as ITU H.264 typically achieves file sizes and data rates half the rates used in MPEG-2. For MPEG-4, in two very specific instances, known as PCM-I, and Transform bypass, the MPEG-4 toolset allows for lossless encoding of finite picture regions or macroblocks. However, when taken as a whole, the MPEG-4 tool set is not designed to support lossless encoding of entire picture sequences, with any significant degree of data reduction. JPEG-2000 is a technically better solution for this requirement.

So MPEG-4 falls between lossy and lossless, (i.e. loses are zero for small picture areas and not zero for full screens) The amount of loss can be adjusted in the formatting/setup frames.

The only consumer source of pure 1080p I'm aware of is BlueRay, all others do top out at 1080i which in worst case equals one half the information content of 1080p. In most cases the difference between 1080i and 1080p is small. The difference is visible when the camera is panning or sweeping quickly left to right or visa versa., 1080p will have less picture stutter due to a full screen update rate that's twice as fast.