Turntable Advice for cheapskate

[Lo-Fi]

Howdy Folks,

I am getting back into the groove with vinyl after 18 years of only CD's. I'm wondering if its worth fixing an old turntable I got or get a new one.

I recently inherited a Dual 1019 stacker, I like it but the quick release headshell needs repair that I'm too inept to do (one of the contacts is faulty as sound cuts in & out of right channel), it needs a new cartridge, needs single play spindle, otherwise all features seem to work fine. Its from 1967 and I'm sure its hasn't been serviced since the early 70's if ever and its been sitting completely unused since the late 80's. I could easily get the headshell fixed and put a new cartridge in but I'm worried (actually my wallets worried) that it would just become a machine that something new would go wrong every few months meaning it would be better to get a complete overhaul now but that would cost over $200 with shipping considered plus some more for the cartridge and spindle.

I've also been eyeballin an Audio Technica AT-PL120 which I'm guessing is a poor mans Technics SL-1200. The AT sells for a little over $200. I'm pretty sure that if setup right it will sound "good enough" for me but I'm more curious as to its build quality and reputation. Any comments on this model from you pros?

I'm not going to be a heavy vinyl user just a semi-crazed enthusiast whose looking to spin the old collection as well pick up a few new lp's here and there. Did I mention that I'm cheap?

[nobody]

I've not heard one, but I do have my eye on this as a possible econo second table to toss in my bedroom...

Denon DP-300F

Won't cost you much more than what it would be to refurb what you've got and it includes a cartridge and a phono output if you need that as well.

Just something to think about.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not familiar with that model of Dual but if you can get the headshell for not much expense, just do that. I had an old Pioneer PL25 that quit working in the 80's. I bought a new fancy Technics quartz locked etc., I took the cartridge off the Pioneer and put it on the Technics and realized that those who say the sound of the turntable is all in the cartridge is full of crap. I returned the Technics and put the Pioneer in the repair shop. Here's the point of this story, after getting the Pioneer fixed it worked for several more years without any problems and that included several moves. It was still working up to the point I sold it around 2000 after upgrading to a Rega Planar 3. The PL25 was a manual table though, yours has few more moving parts. Still, being the cheapster you are, I'd say getting the headshell is a smart way to go. If you have problems later, then, cut bait, but if everything else is working, don't give up now.

[squeegy200]

Nobody brings up a good point.

Does your current system have a phono input?

If not --you will also have to consider the cost of a phono stage into your budget.

[Lo-Fi]

I'm using a Pioneer SX-525 which does have phono input. The Dual makes a humming noise which I guess is due to the direct drive, doesn't seem to be the Pioneer as other inputs don't do that. Hmmm, maybe I should look at belt drive only.

Thanks nobody, I'll take a closer look at the Denon.

[Mr Peabody]

Did you connect the ground wire? The turntable should be only plugged into the "phono input" and you should have 2 RCA connectors and a ground wire from the table. Close to the phono input you should see a screw that says "grnd", connect the wire there. If you haven't done this, doing so, should eliminate the noise. If you have already done this, my guess, is that it is caused by the problem headshell. Direct Drive should not cause the audible noise you describe. The wiring to the cartridge is very sensitive and not difficult to cause noise there.

[Lo-Fi]

Yep, the ground wire is in. I'm heading out the door now but I'll check to see if maybe it slipped out or something when I get back.

The stacker spindle makes me chuckle. It works but damn do those records slam down hard. Anyone know where I can get a single play spindle?

[Mr Peabody]

You might try needledoctor.com or amusicdirect.com

[Lo-Fi]

The ground wire was fine, its got to be the faulty contact in the headshell, the hum turns into a loud buzz when you touch the tonearm. I think I'll fiddle with the Dual as time permits and get a new turntable to use now without hassle.

[Mr Peabody]

If you can stretch your budget, Rega, ProJect & Music Hall all offer turntables starting at $299.00 with cartridge. I think any of these would provide some good vinyl sound.

[SlumpBuster]

I'm not going to be a heavy vinyl user just a semi-crazed enthusiast whose looking to spin the old collection as well pick up a few new lp's here and there. Did I mention that I'm cheap?

I can recommend the AT deck precisely for the reason stated above. I won't call it a giant killer, but its getting right up there. It is a monster deck. Heavy as hell with a boatload of features. IMHO the only thing holding it back is the supplied cartridge. But get a Sumiko Oyster or Grado Black for $50 bucks and you'll be happy as a clam. I think it is an underrated deck.

My fear is that if you get a minimalist deck like the Music Halls, Goldrings, and Regas you will be turned off by the sometimes fussy tinkering required. For alot a newbies (or returnies in your case) those minimalist decks can sometimes make you remember why you gave up LPs in the first place. However, the AT or its Technics grand daddy are feature rich convienent. They can make you say "Why did we ever give up LPs in the first place." The AT even has a built in phono preamp.

Make no mistake though. For overall "audiophile" sound quality, there are simple rules I follow:
1. The less parts the better.
2. The heavier the platter the better.
3. The heavier the plinth, the better.
4. The simpler the tone arm the better.
5. Don't fear using an outboard phono preamp (advise I admittedly don't follow myself)
6. Finally, you can't put too much of your budget into the cart. i.e.the Music hall MMF 5 comes with $250 Goldring cart, but the whole deck retails for $650. That is a good cost ratio, IMHO.

Good luck and let us know what you end up deciding.

[Lo-Fi]

Thanks for the advice Mr Peabody and Slumpbuster!!

It looks like the AT is an ok deck to get restarted with.

[Mr Peabody]

There is a DVD available on setting up turntables for about $29.00. I think it was done by Michael Fremer. I know www.amusicdirect.com carries it.

That's good info on the AT, I wasn't aware of this table before. Especially, the low set up factor and built in preamp. Do you know if sound quality is comparable to the other tables I mentioned? I'll keep the AT in my file for future references to friends for consideration.

[SlumpBuster]

That's good info on the AT, I wasn't aware of this table before. Especially, the low set up factor and built in preamp. Do you know if sound quality is comparable to the other tables I mentioned?

It even has this neato little light that pops out of the plinth when you queue the record.

I don't think the sound quality is probably comparable to Rega, Project or Music Hall. To me the table is the least important link in the chain. Cart, stylus, arm, preamp all come before to the table. But, conversely the table is the foundation, and if its noisey, the cart, arm and preamp won't save you. And to be perfectly honest, when I did get to use that AT I did not check for noise and rumble from the deck. I don't actually have much a a golden ear for that sort of thing and need to use headphones to determine if a deck is rumbly.

But as far as I could determine the AT is in fact a Technics 1200 clone at a fraction of the price.

[Feanor]

Howdy Folks,

I am getting back into the groove with vinyl after 18 years of only CD's. I'm wondering if its worth fixing an old turntable I got or get a new one.
...

If you're a hardcore cheapskate like me, checkout used Technics TTs on eBay. I recently bought an SL-D2 direct drive with standard mount, detachable headshell. I slightly over paid at $86, but I'm well pleased with the performance.

Technics probably made more TTs than anyone else back in the day, and knew how to deliver a high value product. I'd suggest looking for a quartz-controlled direct drive model with S-shaped tonearm and the 1/2" mount, detachable headshell. Most later models had a straight tonearm utilizing a P-mount (T4P) cartridge; these are much easier to set up, but I prefer the greater choice of standard, 1/2" cartridges.

Check out these sources of vintage Technics info:

• http://www.vinylengine.com/library.php?make=Technics
• http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables.htm

[Robb]

I have had one of those ATs for about 2 years and have enjoyed it very much. At Mr. Slump's suggestion, I upgraded the factory DJ cart and experienced a big improvement in clarity, detail and frequency response. I have isolated it with vibrapods, added a thick rubber mat from KAB, and recently added an inexpensive outboard preamp from NAD, all of which improved sound in varying degrees for relatively little added investment. Though I can't attest to the sound of the other tables mentioned in this thread, I would highly reccomend the AT for the budget minded, as I am. Good Listening and Happy New Year to all!

[Lo-Fi]

I bought the AT yesterday, I'll let you guys know how it goes after it arrives next week.

Robb, glad to hear you like your AT! I'll make a list of the added extras you got for future upgrading.

Now its time look for new sleeves and get to cleaning the records that need it.

[Mr Peabody]

You sound like you aren't a complete newbie at this but keep in mind the AT has a built in phono preamp. It probably has a bypass or on/off switch, if the built in phono stage is on you must use a regular AUX input. If you can bypass it, then you can use your receivers phono stage. It would be interesting to compare the two paths to see which sounds better. Have fun!

[hifitommy]

even though you went for the AT table, you can refurb your 1019 and then have two good TTs. here is a site useful for dual users:

http://dual-reference.com/

lots of info and help available here. good luck and have fun.

[royphil345]

Congrats Lo-Fi!!! I haven't heard the AT table, but I've Had my eye on it for awhile as a very strong value, especially for those who wish to play 78s without restoring an old table or spending a fortune. Many satified buyers.

A heavy rubber mat is a must when using a direct drive as a home hi-fi table. I have a couple extras from old tables that are about the same size and weight as my Technics SL-1200 MKII mat. I'd be happy to send you one if you send your address in a private message or e-mail royphil345@yahoo.com

[Mr Peabody]

Hey, what website shows this AT table and remind me again the model number, please. I didn't realize it played 78's. I know a guy who may be looking for a table for 78's and the ones I've found so far have been preety high. I could show him this as a less expensive option. Do you think the AT would still need 2 carts, one for 78 and the other for 33? What type of mount is the AT? Thanks

[jrhymeammo]

Hey, what website shows this AT table and remind me again the model number, please. I didn't realize it played 78's. I know a guy who may be looking for a table for 78's and the ones I've found so far have been preety high. I could show him this as a less expensive option. Do you think the AT would still need 2 carts, one for 78 and the other for 33? What type of mount is the AT? Thanks

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/tu...297/index.html

[royphil345]

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B00012E...267590-1345501

It takes a standard 1/2" mount cart. Takes standard removable headshells for a S-shaped tonearm. (Technics 1200 style included).

As far as I can tell, there is no 78 stylus available for the cart that comes with it. A separate headshell with a dedicated 78 cart would give the best results. You could also just go with any cartridge 78 styli are available for (Ortofon, Shure, lpgear.com sells a 78 stylus for the AT95E, but it's not made by AT http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...ct_Code=ATC95E).... and simply change the stylus for 78 play.

There are no strobe markings for the 78 speeds. There was a program for printing out strobe disks on the web that I tried and it worked well.

[Lo-Fi]

even though you went for the AT table, you can refurb your 1019 and then have two good TTs. here is a site useful for dual users:

http://dual-reference.com/

lots of info and help available here. good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the link. I would like to get the Dual in full operation as being able to flip a switch and not having to worry about picking up the needle would be nice sometimes.

[hifitommy]

my sota/mmt and kd500/707 but the pio PLL1000a is a blessing sometimes because it lifts and returns.

i didnt look at your profile to see where you live but if it were here in LA, the repair would be easy. i hope you can get the headshell you need andget the 1019 working. i lusted after one and only eded up with a 1215, a much lesser dual. i then went in different directions.

suggestion: if you can get more headshells, buy a few, then you can mount a number of different cartridges for different moods/needs. that goes for the at as well. i enjoy being able to quickly switch carts for differnt capabilites or to put on a lesser cart when company is coming with kids or something.