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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    News Flash: Flyers get screwed in Montreal.

    WTF did I just witness? First the gutless replay booth doesn't overturn a phony goal that was obviously hit with a high stick, then they call a 'tripping' penalty with less than 2 minutes to go that wasn't anywhere close to tripping, and Montreal miraculously ties the game about 30 seconds to play, then 'wins it' in overtime. They didn't win it, they were handed it. This is what makes me get totally sick of sports when officiating changes the outcome. I just want to put a hatchet through the frikin' door.

    Think I'm bitter. You're damned right I'm bitter. Total ripoff. Watch the replay and see for yourself. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll hunt you down and kick your scrawny ass. If you disagree, you don't know squat about hockey.

    Swish - one pissed-off Flyers fan. We got screwed.
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  2. #2
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Welcome to the new, obstruction-free NHL. I know an old timer like you who probably played a few games sans headgear doesn't think much of the new rules, but the reduction of clutching and grabbing and tripping is good for the game...

    ...and let's set the record straight on the "highstick".It's a measure of safety as well as height---the height of the guy holding the stick not the delicate character between the pipes or the svelte figure skating d-man. It's not the Habs' fault they're so much more physically imposing than the "Broad Street Ballerinas".

    Don't worry though, word is they're about to give Eric Lindros 17 mil a year to come out of retirement and center the new "Legion of Poon" line with Mayor Nutter and Rosie O'Donnell.

    I'll meet ya down at the corner of Market and 61st for my asskicking. I'll be the one with the facepaint and the midgets.
    So, I broke into the palace
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  3. #3
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Easy big guy..The goal was fair and clean, below the shoulder and not above the crossbar. Has been that way since the dawn of time, Brian Propp scored a few like that in his day.

    And let's not forget the Flyers only exist because of the worst non-call in the history of not just hockey, but sport! on their second goal in Game 7 vs Washington. Directly hitting a player into an opposing goaling is either incidental contact (whistle play blown dead - see Washington vs Tampa Bay's last game of the regular season for example of the right call) OR goaltender interference if the ref chooses to use his discretion and determine the call was deliberate (which he could have done in this case).

    The game should never have gone to overtime. Didn't see Flyers fans crying about that one.

    The Flyers will have to be a lot better. They can't count on Patrice Briseboise scoring goals for them in every game, or the slow Montreal clock-keeper letting time run after icing and thus sparing the Flyers of another sure bet goal against...

    I need them to win this series or at least take it 7 - I got Briere and Lupul on my pool team.

  4. #4
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    The goal was fair and clean? What were you watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Easy big guy..The goal was fair and clean, below the shoulder and not above the crossbar. Has been that way since the dawn of time, Brian Propp scored a few like that in his day.

    And let's not forget the Flyers only exist because of the worst non-call in the history of not just hockey, but sport! on their second goal in Game 7 vs Washington. Directly hitting a player into an opposing goaling is either incidental contact (whistle play blown dead - see Washington vs Tampa Bay's last game of the regular season for example of the right call) OR goaltender interference if the ref chooses to use his discretion and determine the call was deliberate (which he could have done in this case).

    The game should never have gone to overtime. Didn't see Flyers fans crying about that one.

    The Flyers will have to be a lot better. They can't count on Patrice Briseboise scoring goals for them in every game, or the slow Montreal clock-keeper letting time run after icing and thus sparing the Flyers of another sure bet goal against...

    I need them to win this series or at least take it 7 - I got Briere and Lupul on my pool team.
    Probably a biased Montreal station. I saw the replay from behind the net and the stick was clearly above the cross-bar, which is the gauge for a high-stick. How they can say it wasn't is beyond me.

    Then the 'tripping' call that wasn't tripping, but a shoulder to shoulder hit that was clean, and the get a power play at the end of the game, pull the goalie for a two-man advantage and get the tying goal.

    Yes, the Flyers got lucky on that call against the Caps, but the Flyers were called for the same type of penalty in an earlier game and the replay showed the same thing; the player was pushed into the goalie. The ruling was that the player didn't make and attempt to stop and, therefore, was partly responsible, so if it works one way, it should work the other.
    Sorry dude, no sale.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  5. #5
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    I actually like the new rules, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Welcome to the new, obstruction-free NHL. I know an old timer like you who probably played a few games sans headgear doesn't think much of the new rules, but the reduction of clutching and grabbing and tripping is good for the game...

    ...and let's set the record straight on the "highstick".It's a measure of safety as well as height---the height of the guy holding the stick not the delicate character between the pipes or the svelte figure skating d-man. It's not the Habs' fault they're so much more physically imposing than the "Broad Street Ballerinas".

    Don't worry though, word is they're about to give Eric Lindros 17 mil a year to come out of retirement and center the new "Legion of Poon" line with Mayor Nutter and Rosie O'Donnell.

    I'll meet ya down at the corner of Market and 61st for my asskicking. I'll be the one with the facepaint and the midgets.
    ...when the zebra is standing right near the play and your shoulder hits the player with the puck, that's not tripping. Sorry.

    The Habs are more physically imposing? Nah, I don't buy it. You're a funny guy, but those two calls were even funnier...and contain a certain stench that smells like 'we can't let the #1 seed lose at home'. High sticking is now considered anything above 4 feet, which is the height of the cross-bar. Replays from behind the net show the stick making contact with the puck above the cross-bar. No goal. Period.

    Swish
    Last edited by Swish; 04-25-2008 at 04:10 AM.
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  6. #6
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    I can't stand watching a hockey game in Montreal. The soccer chant the crowd does is just plain sickening.

    I'm fed up with the inconsistent calls that have been made in the playoffs so far too. I'm a Ranger fan, so I am guessing that the refs are goign to play a big part in the series against the Pens. God forbid you blow on the NHL poster child, Cindy Crosby, too hard and he falls over flailing away like a child.

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    I feel for ya Swish. It sounds to me like the reputation they got 30 some years ago as the "Broad Street Bullies" lives on. But really, you can't expect officiating to be any different now than it was, say, 30 some years ago.

    Geez, that's how long it's been since they last won the Cup?

  8. #8
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Yes, the chants are getting old already, along with the boos...

    Quote Originally Posted by Duds
    I can't stand watching a hockey game in Montreal. The soccer chant the crowd does is just plain sickening.

    I'm fed up with the inconsistent calls that have been made in the playoffs so far too. I'm a Ranger fan, so I am guessing that the refs are goign to play a big part in the series against the Pens. God forbid you blow on the NHL poster child, Cindy Crosby, too hard and he falls over flailing away like a child.
    ...every time Brier has the puck. How annoying. As for Crosby, he has become the biggest diver in the league and I hope the zebras start calling him on it. Ovetchkin is getting nearly as bad too. Wussies. Both great players but diving takes some of the shine off of them.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Ex Lion Tamer's Avatar
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    Warning - Biased *(yet ulitimately correct) opinion to follow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    WTF did I just witness? First the gutless replay booth doesn't overturn a phony goal that was obviously hit with a high stick, then they call a 'tripping' penalty with less than 2 minutes to go that wasn't anywhere close to tripping, and Montreal miraculously ties the game about 30 seconds to play, then 'wins it' in overtime. They didn't win it, they were handed it. This is what makes me get totally sick of sports when officiating changes the outcome. I just want to put a hatchet through the frikin' door.

    Think I'm bitter. You're damned right I'm bitter. Total ripoff. Watch the replay and see for yourself. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll hunt you down and kick your scrawny ass. If you disagree, you don't know squat about hockey.

    Swish - one pissed-off Flyers fan. We got screwed.
    The stick's heel made contact with the puck at just about crossbar level - at best, inconclusive evidence - and since the ref signalled a goal, not enough evidence to overturn it. Every opinion on the matter I've seen - albeit only Canadian channels, but even Mike Milbury on TSN, said they got the call right. Remember Swish, you have to look at the part of the stick that made contact with the puck and where that part of the stick was in relation to the crossbar.

    The penalty was questionnable, but what hockey penalty isn't? He clearly stuck out his knee when he realized he wasn't going to get a big enough piece of Kovalev.

    All-in-all I thought it was a very well refereed game - 2 penalties called against each team - 1 power play goal each. It was a badly-played game overall, passes were not very crisp, some questionnable decision making on both ends and both teams got breaks on lucky bounces resulting in goals - Flyers actually got two. I think the better team, the team that created more chances, won.

    And I agree with Kexodusc - for a Flyer fan to complain about referees after being handed Game 7 against the Caps - bad kharma dude. Anyway you should worry more about the lack of offense created by your team in general, and how your slow defence is going to handle the Montreal forwards, especially the Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Plekanec line, who won't be facing Timonen / Coburn, instead of throwing out red herring arguments about bad referee calls.
    "I don't know. A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." The Right Honourable JC.

  10. #10
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    .. High sticking is now considered anything above 4 feet, which is the height of the cross-bar. Replays from behind the net show the stick making contact with the puck above the cross-bar. No goal. Period.

    Swish
    Flyers have never bothered to play within the rules, so I'm not surprised their fans don't know them...there is no 4 foot rule and never has been - it's always been height of shoulder for high stick, and point of contact where the puck hits the stick for goals.
    http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule61.html

    Pay careful attention to (C)
    "An apparent goal scored by an attacking player when any part of his stick makes contact with the puck above the height of the crossbar of the goal frame shall not be allowed. The determining factor is where the puck makes contact with the stick. If the puck makes contact with the stick below the level of the crossbar and enters the goal, this goal shall be allowed".

    You're allowed to swing your stick from overhead as long as the contact is made at or below the bar.
    ...and look at the replay again. No evidence that the stick was higher than the crossbar at the point the puck makes contact. It is therefore either at bar level or below. The best angle I've seen is behind the net - we see the top of the blade is above the bar during the swing motion, the bottom of the blade where the stick and puck make contact is clearly below. Even the Montreal hating brass in Toronto reviewed the call (for quite some time) and couldn't find any evidence the stick wasn't below the bar. Good call.

    Yes, the Flyers got lucky on that call against the Caps, but the Flyers were called for the same type of penalty in an earlier game and the replay showed the same thing; the player was pushed into the goalie. The ruling was that the player didn't make and attempt to stop and, therefore, was partly responsible, so if it works one way, it should work the other.
    Sorry dude, no sale.
    I don't recall seeing a goal disputed/disallowed earlier in the series because of the incidental contact rule, and at any rate two wrongs don't make a right. But if a penalty call was made againt the Flyers as you mention in that earlier case, then the two plays are completley different - in Game 7 the defender was facing forward and had no chance to react to avoid the goalie - so no penalty on the defender could be called. It shouldn't have been a penalty anyway unless the ref deemed the hit to be interference on the defender (but he puck was approaching the goal so I can't see that - we let them battle), but the play should have been blown dead via the incidental contact rule. Now, if they called a penalty for the hit, I'd be equally disappointed in the call - it was a clean hit, but probably not interference because of the puck passing through the area.

    Anyway, one resulted in a goal that directly influenced the result of the series, the other one did not and certainly never made headlines...

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ...every time Brier has the puck. How annoying. As for Crosby, he has become the biggest diver in the league and I hope the zebras start calling him on it. Ovetchkin is getting nearly as bad too. Wussies. Both great players but diving takes some of the shine off of them.

    Swish
    Crosby yes, Ovechkin yes. Nobody will ever top the Sabre's trio of Briere and JP Dumont and Afinegenov for diving though. I was surprised the Flyers went after Briere after all the comments they made about him in previous years, but I think they struck out with Drury and settled.

    As for habs fans...they're sorryest bunch of band-wagoners I've ever met. When the going's good they are unquestionably the loudest in the league, but when times are tough they'll eat their own like a praying mantis. Last year Kovalev was synonymous with Satan and this year he's selling cheeseball hockey DVD's. I live in Habs country - next to the Leafs winning the Cup, the Habs winning would rank up there as worst things to ever happen to me...

    I dunno what the Flyers are missing. Their not a soft team, but their not playing to their size advantage for some reason. Respecting the speed of their opponents a bit too much. They've got to goon up Kovalev and those Kostitsyn sisters. Kovalev gets rattled and the refs just wait for him to pull off another fake diving stunt like the 94 Rangers run to give him an unsportsmanlike...


    Anyway, Biron has always rebounded from bad games throughout his career, certainly did in the last round, and should be ready for game 2. This one is going 6 at least.

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    Crosby is pathetic, i cant stand that kid. Big crybaby who isnt man enough to stick up for himself. I cant stand malkin either. The refs have to let the Rangers play their game or the Pens win the series. Rangers have to be smart though and recognize how the refs are calling the games.

    I'd like nothing more than to see the Flyers beat the Habs.

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Crosby yes, Ovechkin yes. Nobody will ever top the Sabre's trio of Briere and JP Dumont and Afinegenov for diving though. I was surprised the Flyers went after Briere after all the comments they made about him in previous years, but I think they struck out with Drury and settled.

    As for habs fans...they're sorryest bunch of band-wagoners I've ever met. When the going's good they are unquestionably the loudest in the league, but when times are tough they'll eat their own like a praying mantis. Last year Kovalev was synonymous with Satan and this year he's selling cheeseball hockey DVD's. I live in Habs country - next to the Leafs winning the Cup, the Habs winning would rank up there as worst things to ever happen to me...

    I dunno what the Flyers are missing. Their not a soft team, but their not playing to their size advantage for some reason. Respecting the speed of their opponents a bit too much. They've got to goon up Kovalev and those Kostitsyn sisters. Kovalev gets rattled and the refs just wait for him to pull off another fake diving stunt like the 94 Rangers run to give him an unsportsmanlike...


    Anyway, Biron has always rebounded from bad games throughout his career, certainly did in the last round, and should be ready for game 2. This one is going 6 at least.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Ex Lion Tamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    As for habs fans...they're sorryest bunch of band-wagoners I've ever met. When the going's good they are unquestionably the loudest in the league, but when times are tough they'll eat their own like a praying mantis.
    I hear this all the time, and don't understand it. Hab fans fill the arena every night and it is known as the best crowd in hockey - yeah if they are playing like shiite, the crowd, press, fans, community let's them know it - doesn't mean that we're "off the bandwagon". I've been a fan since I was 10 years old - never seen a bandwagon , don't know what it looks like, and have never either been on it or off it; but i have allways realistically assessed the qualitry of hockey the team on the ice is delivering. So, what's wrong with that?

    As for Kovalev and his relationship with the fans this ytear versus last - did you see him play last year? Whatever criticism he got, he deserved. This year he's a different player, and what's wrong with showing our appreciation for a guy turning his career around?
    "I don't know. A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." The Right Honourable JC.

  14. #14
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer
    I hear this all the time, and don't understand it. Hab fans fill the arena every night and it is known as the best crowd in hockey - yeah if they are playing like shiite, the crowd, press, fans, community let's them know it - doesn't mean that we're "off the bandwagon". I've been a fan since I was 10 years old - never seen a bandwagon , don't know what it looks like, and have never either been on it or off it; but i have allways realistically assessed the qualitry of hockey the team on the ice is delivering. So, what's wrong with that?

    As for Kovalev and his relationship with the fans this ytear versus last - did you see him play last year? Whatever criticism he got, he deserved. This year he's a different player, and what's wrong with showing our appreciation for a guy turning his career around?
    The best 3 crowds I've been too are Calgary, Edmonton (those two tie, and are far beyond all others) and Minnesota. I went to a Habs game this year and we were asked to sit down be quiet by the guys behind us!!!

    Well I won't call ALL Habs fans bandwagoners, but they run their own out of town like nobody else. Roy, Samsonov, Brisebois, etc. Every team has their goats, but if you're the guy in Montreal they crucify you. Maybe that's "passion" but it needs to be focused better. They have a tough time attracting free agents because of it. I think the media has a lot to do with it - far beyond cruel.
    But look at the sad sack Leafs. Every year those fans really think they're just 1 player away from the Cup and they love them, every year, unconditionally...everyone knows they have no chance of winning - except Leafs fans. They won't accept it. That's passion, in the positive sense, as much as I hate them (and at times pity them).

    I'll be honest too - being razzed daily by Habs fans the last month has soured me on them so I'm venting a bit here but I would think Montreal should always be the centre of the hockey universe, not Toronto - at least Montreal has the history and dignity to back it up. The fans only rally when the going's good though. That's only conditional support.

  15. #15
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Correction of your erroneous correction.

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Flyers have never bothered to play within the rules, so I'm not surprised their fans don't know them...there is no 4 foot rule and never has been - it's always been height of shoulder for high stick, and point of contact where the puck hits the stick for goals.
    http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule61.html

    Pay careful attention to (C)
    "An apparent goal scored by an attacking player when any part of his stick makes contact with the puck above the height of the crossbar of the goal frame shall not be allowed. The determining factor is where the puck makes contact with the stick. If the puck makes contact with the stick below the level of the crossbar and enters the goal, this goal shall be allowed".

    You're allowed to swing your stick from overhead as long as the contact is made at or below the bar.
    ...and look at the replay again. No evidence that the stick was higher than the crossbar at the point the puck makes contact. It is therefore either at bar level or below. The best angle I've seen is behind the net - we see the top of the blade is above the bar during the swing motion, the bottom of the blade where the stick and puck make contact is clearly below. Even the Montreal hating brass in Toronto reviewed the call (for quite some time) and couldn't find any evidence the stick wasn't below the bar. Good call..
    Let's just say you misunderstood my comment. The cross bar is 4 feet in height, and I was only referring to high-sticking in regard to the goal that was allowed, not high-sticking in general, so you're not exactly wrong, and neither was I, and I agree that it's only if the stick makes contact above the crossbar, and from the replays I saw, it did. Believe what you want to believe. Otherwise, the should-height is the gauge in other parts of the ice.

    I need your help with something though; what do you when you said "The Flyers have never played within the rules', I have no idea what you meant, so please give me some examples. Hard to believe that one team can play under a different set of rules, so please enlighten me.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  16. #16
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Ain't we got fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer
    The stick's heel made contact with the puck at just about crossbar level - at best, inconclusive evidence - and since the ref signalled a goal, not enough evidence to overturn it. Every opinion on the matter I've seen - albeit only Canadian channels, but even Mike Milbury on TSN, said they got the call right. Remember Swish, you have to look at the part of the stick that made contact with the puck and where that part of the stick was in relation to the crossbar.

    The penalty was questionnable, but what hockey penalty isn't? He clearly stuck out his knee when he realized he wasn't going to get a big enough piece of Kovalev.

    All-in-all I thought it was a very well refereed game - 2 penalties called against each team - 1 power play goal each. It was a badly-played game overall, passes were not very crisp, some questionnable decision making on both ends and both teams got breaks on lucky bounces resulting in goals - Flyers actually got two. I think the better team, the team that created more chances, won.

    And I agree with Kexodusc - for a Flyer fan to complain about referees after being handed Game 7 against the Caps - bad kharma dude. Anyway you should worry more about the lack of offense created by your team in general, and how your slow defence is going to handle the Montreal forwards, especially the Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Plekanec line, who won't be facing Timonen / Coburn, instead of throwing out red herring arguments about bad referee calls.
    A few pale ales and a couple of questionable calls and I got a few of you lathered up pretty well. I'm quite proud actually.

    The Flyers played 3 games in 4 nights and in three different cities, and still took the Habs into overtime, so give them credit. They went from worst in the NHL last year to a playoff team, so give them credit. Just what do you mean the Flyers need to generate more offense? They out-shot Montreal in the game, so they were right there but for a few breaks, and if not for the brutal week they've had, probably would have been a bit sharper.

    Speed is an issue, I will agree, but hey, like I told you, I don't expect the Flyers to win this series, I just thought they should have won this game and it would have made things very interesting.

    Swish - stirring up trouble
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  17. #17
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    the NBA...its FANtastic

    Go Pistons


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    Stars vs. Sharks tonite! GO STARS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Let's just say you misunderstood my comment. The cross bar is 4 feet in height, and I was only referring to high-sticking in regard to the goal that was allowed, not high-sticking in general, so you're not exactly wrong, and neither was I, and I agree that it's only if the stick makes contact above the crossbar, and from the replays I saw, it did. Believe what you want to believe. Otherwise, the should-height is the gauge in other parts of the ice.

    I need your help with something though; what do you when you said "The Flyers have never played within the rules', I have no idea what you meant, so please give me some examples. Hard to believe that one team can play under a different set of rules, so please enlighten me.

    Swish
    See Boulerice, Downie, Cote, Hartnell, Jones for the 2008 answer to your question...

    The Flyers got their nickname for their notorious toughness and willingness to break the rules. This is a philosophy that continues to exist in that organization. It's been effective in the past. Bobby Clarke is a legend in in Philadelphia (and even more so in Canada) for his willingness to break the rules when it would benefit the team in the long-run (see 72 Summit Series for more detail). I'm not criticizing the culture, I rather enjoy it. Just had a good chuckle when I "misunderstood" your comment about high sticking being defined by 4 feet (which upon review in the context of goal scoring, I admit you were correct). If you're a Flyers fan, don't insult me by pretending you don't know what I'm talking about. Ask any hockey fan what team breaks the rules the most, and the majority will say the Flyers....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    A few pale ales and a couple of questionable calls and I got a few of you lathered up pretty well. I'm quite proud actually.

    The Flyers played 3 games in 4 nights and in three different cities, and still took the Habs into overtime, so give them credit.
    The NHL really dropped the ball with the schedule for this series. San Jose got the extra day for their match against Dallas, despite advancing the same day as the Flyers. This really stuff really bugs me.. The playoffs are a marathon and so much is at stake that no team should be disadvantage by fatigue due to unreasonable scheduling. It's one thing when both teams have the same schedule, at least that's fair. But that extra day for Montreal was huge, and in a close game nobody will argue it wasn't a big factor.

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    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Well, they got punished plenty for those hits, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    See Boulerice, Downie, Cote, Hartnell, Jones for the 2008 answer to your question...

    The Flyers got their nickname for their notorious toughness and willingness to break the rules. This is a philosophy that continues to exist in that organization. It's been effective in the past. Bobby Clarke is a legend in in Philadelphia (and even more so in Canada) for his willingness to break the rules when it would benefit the team in the long-run (see 72 Summit Series for more detail). I'm not criticizing the culture, I rather enjoy it. Just had a good chuckle when I "misunderstood" your comment about high sticking being defined by 4 feet (which upon review in the context of goal scoring, I admit you were correct). If you're a Flyers fan, don't insult me by pretending you don't know what I'm talking about. Ask any hockey fan what team breaks the rules the most, and the majority will say the Flyers....
    ...a couple of them were not blatant or even intentional. Downie is a kid and screwed up, but allow him that one mistake. Hartnell is tough, not dirty, ditto Jones. There are plenty of dirty players in the league, and each team has at least one or two. The Flyers paid dearly for those mistakes, but they're history.

    But don't say they 'never play by the rules'. If that's the case, any team that commits a penalty isn't playing by the rules. Only if they're not caught or penalized, kind of like Patriots taping other teams....uh oh, I think I just opened up some more old wounds.

    Swish - have a fun day
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

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    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ...a couple of them were not blatant or even intentional. Downie is a kid and screwed up, but allow him that one mistake. Hartnell is tough, not dirty, ditto Jones. There are plenty of dirty players in the league, and each team has at least one or two. The Flyers paid dearly for those mistakes, but they're history.

    But don't say they 'never play by the rules'. If that's the case, any team that commits a penalty isn't playing by the rules. Only if they're not caught or penalized, kind of like Patriots taping other teams....uh oh, I think I just opened up some more old wounds.

    Swish - have a fun day
    Semantics. The Flyers consistently rank near the top of the league in PIM's, top 5 or better almost every year, with the odd year where they might fall in the middle. Consistency is the message here though, it reflects the philosophy and strategy of the organization.
    Now I'll be the first to admit breaking the rules can be an effective part of the game ( I even defended Hartnell, Cote, and even Chris SImon here at ar.com) and I certainly lead my team in PIM's most years...but the merits of rule breaking is another discussion, and we've spent enough time discussing a comment that was intended as a friendly rib at you, not a scathing criticism of the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I went to a Habs game this year and we were asked to sit down be quiet by the guys behind us!!!
    That's what happens when you heckle the home team.

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    But look at the sad sack Leafs. Every year those fans really think they're just 1 player away from the Cup and they love them, every year, unconditionally...everyone knows they have no chance of winning - except Leafs fans. They won't accept it. That's passion, in the positive sense, as much as I hate them (and at times pity them).
    Huh? Everyone else is just dead wrong!

    The only thing I dislike more than the Habs is the Habs fans (present company excluded ). GO FLYERS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    .Downie is a kid and screwed up, but allow him that one mistake.
    Okay, Downie may be only 21 years old, but as someone who followed his junior career, it's not just one mistake. We're getting close to a baker's dozen, each under media scrutiny, each incident more reckless than the last. Sucker punching a guy in the back of the head a la Todd Bertuzzi (minus the follow through face plant), sucker-cross-checking his own teammate in the mouth because the teammate refused to partake in his poorly conceived man-sex hazing ritual, and too many hits from behind to count to name a few. The guy is going seriously hurt someone soon.

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    you defended Chris Simon??

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Semantics. The Flyers consistently rank near the top of the league in PIM's, top 5 or better almost every year, with the odd year where they might fall in the middle. Consistency is the message here though, it reflects the philosophy and strategy of the organization.
    Now I'll be the first to admit breaking the rules can be an effective part of the game ( I even defended Hartnell, Cote, and even Chris SImon here at ar.com) and I certainly lead my team in PIM's most years...but the merits of rule breaking is another discussion, and we've spent enough time discussing a comment that was intended as a friendly rib at you, not a scathing criticism of the team.

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