News Flash: Flyers get screwed in Montreal.

[Swish]

WTF did I just witness? First the gutless replay booth doesn't overturn a phony goal that was obviously hit with a high stick, then they call a 'tripping' penalty with less than 2 minutes to go that wasn't anywhere close to tripping, and Montreal miraculously ties the game about 30 seconds to play, then 'wins it' in overtime. They didn't win it, they were handed it. This is what makes me get totally sick of sports when officiating changes the outcome. I just want to put a hatchet through the frikin' door.

Think I'm bitter. You're damned right I'm bitter. Total ripoff. Watch the replay and see for yourself. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll hunt you down and kick your scrawny ass. If you disagree, you don't know squat about hockey.

Swish - one pissed-off Flyers fan. We got screwed.

[bobsticks]

Welcome to the new, obstruction-free NHL. I know an old timer like you who probably played a few games sans headgear doesn't think much of the new rules, but the reduction of clutching and grabbing and tripping is good for the game...

...and let's set the record straight on the "highstick".It's a measure of safety as well as height---the height of the guy holding the stick not the delicate character between the pipes or the svelte figure skating d-man. It's not the Habs' fault they're so much more physically imposing than the "Broad Street Ballerinas".

Don't worry though, word is they're about to give Eric Lindros 17 mil a year to come out of retirement and center the new "Legion of Poon" line with Mayor Nutter and Rosie O'Donnell.

I'll meet ya down at the corner of Market and 61st for my asskicking. I'll be the one with the facepaint and the midgets.

[Swish]

Welcome to the new, obstruction-free NHL. I know an old timer like you who probably played a few games sans headgear doesn't think much of the new rules, but the reduction of clutching and grabbing and tripping is good for the game...

...and let's set the record straight on the "highstick".It's a measure of safety as well as height---the height of the guy holding the stick not the delicate character between the pipes or the svelte figure skating d-man. It's not the Habs' fault they're so much more physically imposing than the "Broad Street Ballerinas".

Don't worry though, word is they're about to give Eric Lindros 17 mil a year to come out of retirement and center the new "Legion of Poon" line with Mayor Nutter and Rosie O'Donnell.

I'll meet ya down at the corner of Market and 61st for my asskicking. I'll be the one with the facepaint and the midgets.

...when the zebra is standing right near the play and your shoulder hits the player with the puck, that's not tripping. Sorry.

The Habs are more physically imposing? Nah, I don't buy it. You're a funny guy, but those two calls were even funnier...and contain a certain stench that smells like 'we can't let the #1 seed lose at home'. High sticking is now considered anything above 4 feet, which is the height of the cross-bar. Replays from behind the net show the stick making contact with the puck above the cross-bar. No goal. Period.

Swish

[Duds]

I can't stand watching a hockey game in Montreal. The soccer chant the crowd does is just plain sickening.

I'm fed up with the inconsistent calls that have been made in the playoffs so far too. I'm a Ranger fan, so I am guessing that the refs are goign to play a big part in the series against the Pens. God forbid you blow on the NHL poster child, Cindy Crosby, too hard and he falls over flailing away like a child.

[Swish]

I can't stand watching a hockey game in Montreal. The soccer chant the crowd does is just plain sickening.

I'm fed up with the inconsistent calls that have been made in the playoffs so far too. I'm a Ranger fan, so I am guessing that the refs are goign to play a big part in the series against the Pens. God forbid you blow on the NHL poster child, Cindy Crosby, too hard and he falls over flailing away like a child.

...every time Brier has the puck. How annoying. As for Crosby, he has become the biggest diver in the league and I hope the zebras start calling him on it. Ovetchkin is getting nearly as bad too. Wussies. Both great players but diving takes some of the shine off of them.

Swish

[kexodusc]

...every time Brier has the puck. How annoying. As for Crosby, he has become the biggest diver in the league and I hope the zebras start calling him on it. Ovetchkin is getting nearly as bad too. Wussies. Both great players but diving takes some of the shine off of them.

Swish

Crosby yes, Ovechkin yes. Nobody will ever top the Sabre's trio of Briere and JP Dumont and Afinegenov for diving though. I was surprised the Flyers went after Briere after all the comments they made about him in previous years, but I think they struck out with Drury and settled.

As for habs fans...they're sorryest bunch of band-wagoners I've ever met. When the going's good they are unquestionably the loudest in the league, but when times are tough they'll eat their own like a praying mantis. Last year Kovalev was synonymous with Satan and this year he's selling cheeseball hockey DVD's. I live in Habs country - next to the Leafs winning the Cup, the Habs winning would rank up there as worst things to ever happen to me...

I dunno what the Flyers are missing. Their not a soft team, but their not playing to their size advantage for some reason. Respecting the speed of their opponents a bit too much. They've got to goon up Kovalev and those Kostitsyn sisters. Kovalev gets rattled and the refs just wait for him to pull off another fake diving stunt like the 94 Rangers run to give him an unsportsmanlike...


Anyway, Biron has always rebounded from bad games throughout his career, certainly did in the last round, and should be ready for game 2. This one is going 6 at least.

[kexodusc]

.. High sticking is now considered anything above 4 feet, which is the height of the cross-bar. Replays from behind the net show the stick making contact with the puck above the cross-bar. No goal. Period.

Swish

Flyers have never bothered to play within the rules, so I'm not surprised their fans don't know them...there is no 4 foot rule and never has been - it's always been height of shoulder for high stick, and point of contact where the puck hits the stick for goals.
http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule61.html

Pay careful attention to (C)
"An apparent goal scored by an attacking player when any part of his stick makes contact with the puck above the height of the crossbar of the goal frame shall not be allowed. The determining factor is where the puck makes contact with the stick. If the puck makes contact with the stick below the level of the crossbar and enters the goal, this goal shall be allowed".

You're allowed to swing your stick from overhead as long as the contact is made at or below the bar.
...and look at the replay again. No evidence that the stick was higher than the crossbar at the point the puck makes contact. It is therefore either at bar level or below. The best angle I've seen is behind the net - we see the top of the blade is above the bar during the swing motion, the bottom of the blade where the stick and puck make contact is clearly below. Even the Montreal hating brass in Toronto reviewed the call (for quite some time) and couldn't find any evidence the stick wasn't below the bar. Good call.

Yes, the Flyers got lucky on that call against the Caps, but the Flyers were called for the same type of penalty in an earlier game and the replay showed the same thing; the player was pushed into the goalie. The ruling was that the player didn't make and attempt to stop and, therefore, was partly responsible, so if it works one way, it should work the other.
Sorry dude, no sale.

I don't recall seeing a goal disputed/disallowed earlier in the series because of the incidental contact rule, and at any rate two wrongs don't make a right. But if a penalty call was made againt the Flyers as you mention in that earlier case, then the two plays are completley different - in Game 7 the defender was facing forward and had no chance to react to avoid the goalie - so no penalty on the defender could be called. It shouldn't have been a penalty anyway unless the ref deemed the hit to be interference on the defender (but he puck was approaching the goal so I can't see that - we let them battle), but the play should have been blown dead via the incidental contact rule. Now, if they called a penalty for the hit, I'd be equally disappointed in the call - it was a clean hit, but probably not interference because of the puck passing through the area.

Anyway, one resulted in a goal that directly influenced the result of the series, the other one did not and certainly never made headlines...

[Swish]

Flyers have never bothered to play within the rules, so I'm not surprised their fans don't know them...there is no 4 foot rule and never has been - it's always been height of shoulder for high stick, and point of contact where the puck hits the stick for goals.
http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule61.html

Pay careful attention to (C)
"An apparent goal scored by an attacking player when any part of his stick makes contact with the puck above the height of the crossbar of the goal frame shall not be allowed. The determining factor is where the puck makes contact with the stick. If the puck makes contact with the stick below the level of the crossbar and enters the goal, this goal shall be allowed".

You're allowed to swing your stick from overhead as long as the contact is made at or below the bar.
...and look at the replay again. No evidence that the stick was higher than the crossbar at the point the puck makes contact. It is therefore either at bar level or below. The best angle I've seen is behind the net - we see the top of the blade is above the bar during the swing motion, the bottom of the blade where the stick and puck make contact is clearly below. Even the Montreal hating brass in Toronto reviewed the call (for quite some time) and couldn't find any evidence the stick wasn't below the bar. Good call..

Let's just say you misunderstood my comment. The cross bar is 4 feet in height, and I was only referring to high-sticking in regard to the goal that was allowed, not high-sticking in general, so you're not exactly wrong, and neither was I, and I agree that it's only if the stick makes contact above the crossbar, and from the replays I saw, it did. Believe what you want to believe. Otherwise, the should-height is the gauge in other parts of the ice.

I need your help with something though; what do you when you said "The Flyers have never played within the rules', I have no idea what you meant, so please give me some examples. Hard to believe that one team can play under a different set of rules, so please enlighten me.

Swish

[kexodusc]

Let's just say you misunderstood my comment. The cross bar is 4 feet in height, and I was only referring to high-sticking in regard to the goal that was allowed, not high-sticking in general, so you're not exactly wrong, and neither was I, and I agree that it's only if the stick makes contact above the crossbar, and from the replays I saw, it did. Believe what you want to believe. Otherwise, the should-height is the gauge in other parts of the ice.

I need your help with something though; what do you when you said "The Flyers have never played within the rules', I have no idea what you meant, so please give me some examples. Hard to believe that one team can play under a different set of rules, so please enlighten me.

Swish

See Boulerice, Downie, Cote, Hartnell, Jones for the 2008 answer to your question...

The Flyers got their nickname for their notorious toughness and willingness to break the rules. This is a philosophy that continues to exist in that organization. It's been effective in the past. Bobby Clarke is a legend in in Philadelphia (and even more so in Canada) for his willingness to break the rules when it would benefit the team in the long-run (see 72 Summit Series for more detail). I'm not criticizing the culture, I rather enjoy it. Just had a good chuckle when I "misunderstood" your comment about high sticking being defined by 4 feet (which upon review in the context of goal scoring, I admit you were correct). If you're a Flyers fan, don't insult me by pretending you don't know what I'm talking about. Ask any hockey fan what team breaks the rules the most, and the majority will say the Flyers....

[kexodusc]

Easy big guy..The goal was fair and clean, below the shoulder and not above the crossbar. Has been that way since the dawn of time, Brian Propp scored a few like that in his day.

And let's not forget the Flyers only exist because of the worst non-call in the history of not just hockey, but sport! on their second goal in Game 7 vs Washington. Directly hitting a player into an opposing goaling is either incidental contact (whistle play blown dead - see Washington vs Tampa Bay's last game of the regular season for example of the right call) OR goaltender interference if the ref chooses to use his discretion and determine the call was deliberate (which he could have done in this case).

The game should never have gone to overtime. Didn't see Flyers fans crying about that one.

The Flyers will have to be a lot better. They can't count on Patrice Briseboise scoring goals for them in every game, or the slow Montreal clock-keeper letting time run after icing and thus sparing the Flyers of another sure bet goal against...

I need them to win this series or at least take it 7 - I got Briere and Lupul on my pool team.

[Swish]

Easy big guy..The goal was fair and clean, below the shoulder and not above the crossbar. Has been that way since the dawn of time, Brian Propp scored a few like that in his day.

And let's not forget the Flyers only exist because of the worst non-call in the history of not just hockey, but sport! on their second goal in Game 7 vs Washington. Directly hitting a player into an opposing goaling is either incidental contact (whistle play blown dead - see Washington vs Tampa Bay's last game of the regular season for example of the right call) OR goaltender interference if the ref chooses to use his discretion and determine the call was deliberate (which he could have done in this case).

The game should never have gone to overtime. Didn't see Flyers fans crying about that one.

The Flyers will have to be a lot better. They can't count on Patrice Briseboise scoring goals for them in every game, or the slow Montreal clock-keeper letting time run after icing and thus sparing the Flyers of another sure bet goal against...

I need them to win this series or at least take it 7 - I got Briere and Lupul on my pool team.

Probably a biased Montreal station. I saw the replay from behind the net and the stick was clearly above the cross-bar, which is the gauge for a high-stick. How they can say it wasn't is beyond me.

Then the 'tripping' call that wasn't tripping, but a shoulder to shoulder hit that was clean, and the get a power play at the end of the game, pull the goalie for a two-man advantage and get the tying goal.

Yes, the Flyers got lucky on that call against the Caps, but the Flyers were called for the same type of penalty in an earlier game and the replay showed the same thing; the player was pushed into the goalie. The ruling was that the player didn't make and attempt to stop and, therefore, was partly responsible, so if it works one way, it should work the other.
Sorry dude, no sale.

Swish

[Rich-n-Texas]

I feel for ya Swish. It sounds to me like the reputation they got 30 some years ago as the "Broad Street Bullies" lives on. But really, you can't expect officiating to be any different now than it was, say, 30 some years ago.

Geez, that's how long it's been since they last won the Cup?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

WTF did I just witness? First the gutless replay booth doesn't overturn a phony goal that was obviously hit with a high stick, then they call a 'tripping' penalty with less than 2 minutes to go that wasn't anywhere close to tripping, and Montreal miraculously ties the game about 30 seconds to play, then 'wins it' in overtime. They didn't win it, they were handed it. This is what makes me get totally sick of sports when officiating changes the outcome. I just want to put a hatchet through the frikin' door.

Think I'm bitter. You're damned right I'm bitter. Total ripoff. Watch the replay and see for yourself. Tell me I'm wrong and I'll hunt you down and kick your scrawny ass. If you disagree, you don't know squat about hockey.

Swish - one pissed-off Flyers fan. We got screwed.

The stick's heel made contact with the puck at just about crossbar level - at best, inconclusive evidence - and since the ref signalled a goal, not enough evidence to overturn it. Every opinion on the matter I've seen - albeit only Canadian channels, but even Mike Milbury on TSN, said they got the call right. Remember Swish, you have to look at the part of the stick that made contact with the puck and where that part of the stick was in relation to the crossbar.

The penalty was questionnable, but what hockey penalty isn't? He clearly stuck out his knee when he realized he wasn't going to get a big enough piece of Kovalev.

All-in-all I thought it was a very well refereed game - 2 penalties called against each team - 1 power play goal each. It was a badly-played game overall, passes were not very crisp, some questionnable decision making on both ends and both teams got breaks on lucky bounces resulting in goals - Flyers actually got two. I think the better team, the team that created more chances, won.

And I agree with Kexodusc - for a Flyer fan to complain about referees after being handed Game 7 against the Caps - bad kharma dude. Anyway you should worry more about the lack of offense created by your team in general, and how your slow defence is going to handle the Montreal forwards, especially the Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Plekanec line, who won't be facing Timonen / Coburn, instead of throwing out red herring arguments about bad referee calls.

[Swish]

The stick's heel made contact with the puck at just about crossbar level - at best, inconclusive evidence - and since the ref signalled a goal, not enough evidence to overturn it. Every opinion on the matter I've seen - albeit only Canadian channels, but even Mike Milbury on TSN, said they got the call right. Remember Swish, you have to look at the part of the stick that made contact with the puck and where that part of the stick was in relation to the crossbar.

The penalty was questionnable, but what hockey penalty isn't? He clearly stuck out his knee when he realized he wasn't going to get a big enough piece of Kovalev.

All-in-all I thought it was a very well refereed game - 2 penalties called against each team - 1 power play goal each. It was a badly-played game overall, passes were not very crisp, some questionnable decision making on both ends and both teams got breaks on lucky bounces resulting in goals - Flyers actually got two. I think the better team, the team that created more chances, won.

And I agree with Kexodusc - for a Flyer fan to complain about referees after being handed Game 7 against the Caps - bad kharma dude. Anyway you should worry more about the lack of offense created by your team in general, and how your slow defence is going to handle the Montreal forwards, especially the Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Plekanec line, who won't be facing Timonen / Coburn, instead of throwing out red herring arguments about bad referee calls.

A few pale ales and a couple of questionable calls and I got a few of you lathered up pretty well. I'm quite proud actually.

The Flyers played 3 games in 4 nights and in three different cities, and still took the Habs into overtime, so give them credit. They went from worst in the NHL last year to a playoff team, so give them credit. Just what do you mean the Flyers need to generate more offense? They out-shot Montreal in the game, so they were right there but for a few breaks, and if not for the brutal week they've had, probably would have been a bit sharper.

Speed is an issue, I will agree, but hey, like I told you, I don't expect the Flyers to win this series, I just thought they should have won this game and it would have made things very interesting.

Swish - stirring up trouble

[kexodusc]

A few pale ales and a couple of questionable calls and I got a few of you lathered up pretty well. I'm quite proud actually.

The Flyers played 3 games in 4 nights and in three different cities, and still took the Habs into overtime, so give them credit.

The NHL really dropped the ball with the schedule for this series. San Jose got the extra day for their match against Dallas, despite advancing the same day as the Flyers. This really stuff really bugs me.. The playoffs are a marathon and so much is at stake that no team should be disadvantage by fatigue due to unreasonable scheduling. It's one thing when both teams have the same schedule, at least that's fair. But that extra day for Montreal was huge, and in a close game nobody will argue it wasn't a big factor.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Just what do you mean the Flyers need to generate more offense? They out-shot Montreal in the game, so they were right there but for a few breaks, and if not for the brutal week they've had, probably would have been a bit sharper.

I think the shots ended up even. Notwithstanding that fact, Biron by far had the tougher saves to make - not to mention two posts, a penalty shot, at least 2 partial breakaways. I can't think of any really tough save that Price had to make. Where was Richard's, where was Briere, where was Hartnell, even the power play was pretty anemic - even if they did score on a lucky bounce on a weak shot from the point that Price should have held on to. Overall, I didn't see much offense from The Flyers at all.

Having said that it was a MUCH tougher game than it should have been for The Habs, given the Flyers schedule. And yes, I do give the Flyers a ton of credit for the season they had, and most of it without Gagne - well done.

Speed is an issue, I will agree, but hey, like I told you, I don't expect the Flyers to win this series, I just thought they should have won this game and it would have made things very interesting.

Point well taken.

Look - looking at Montreal's season from a non-partisan perspective - they are probably not as good, long term as this season's results seem to indicate. They went the season without a major injury, they got a career year from a motivated Kovalev - next year, who knows? They found a franchise goaltender, and seem to be gelling as a group beyond their talent level. I expect them to beat the Flyers - because they match-up well, but next round I expect they'll lose.

But they do have what I think is the most underrated defence corp in the east -with more promising defencemen on the way; (Ryan McDonough, Emelin, Valentenko, David Fisher), they have that franchise goaltender for many a year to come, the Kostitsyn sisters (as somenopne called them) are actually pretty damn good, and Plekanec may be the most underrated centre in the East. So the future looks brighter than the recent past at least.

[3-LockBox]

the NBA...its FANtastic Go Pistons

[Swish]

the NBA...its FANtastic Go Pistons

Did you ever think they would paste your beloved Pistons like that, especially after losing to them so badly in the second game?

I'm not a big NBA fan, but I like the way Mo has them playing, and it's a team effort with mostly younger players. They never looked this inspired when Iverson was there.

I don't think they'll make it past the second round and the East belongs to the Celtics this year, or so it would appear, but taking the Pistons out would be huge.

Go Sixers!

Swish

[bobsticks]

Looks like yer boys showed up to play and the skipped practice let some of those characters rest up. They almost looked like a disciplined professional sports team (except for Dowd's dumbass highsticking) but we all know the truth. I love it when the goalies get chippy, look at Mar-tay

[Rich-n-Texas]

Stars vs. Sharks tonite! GO STARS!