Magnepan - Still good?

[bubslewis]

Recently retired my old (ancient BOSE's) front speakers and am now looking for something new. Last time I seriously auditioned any speakers was in 1988. I recall that I really liked a pair of Magnepans (can't remember the model). They were a bit above my budget at the time, plus they were driving them with a monster high current amp which they recommended I should also purchase.

From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?

Any feedback welcomed. Always like to have as much ammunition as possible before I go stick my neck out and listen to them.

thanks,
Bill

[E-Stat]

From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

You really need to hear a current pair for yourself with familiar music. I have thought they were something special since I first heard a pair of Tympani I-Us back in '74. Like all bipolars, however, they require some "breathing" room behind them to sound their best.

rw

[Mike Anderson]

I friggin' LOVE my 1.6's, and a lot of other people here will swear by them too. It's a truly impressive speaker for the money.

For the full effect, I think they do require a fair amount of current -- but quality is more important than quantity in many ways.

I should say, however, that there is a growing contigent of people over at Audio Asylum who are going with super-cheap (but very high power) pro-quality power amps like Behringer or QSC. You'd probably want a decent pre-amp with that, though, and you need a way to silence/replace the fan.

I can't speak to the Adcom you mention, never having tried it. But be aware that watt ratings are not always comparable across different manufacturers.

[bubslewis]

Thanks for feedback. Was planning (hoping) to use the pre-amp outputs from a Yamaha RX2500 A/V receiver into the amp for the Magnepans. I don't know how the pre-amp in the Yamaha stacks up against using a stand-alone preamp for the Magnepan

[accastil]

hi bubs,
yes indeed! maggies are really good..but only for a limited type of music. light jazz, classical and all those light and mellow music are a glory when listened to at maggies. but take note that maggies are not that impressive with more aggressive and bassful music such as rock, disco, pop, etc...and yes you are right, they require more powerful amps than box speakers. your yamaha receiver may not be enought to squeeze the juice out of them. why not audition Monitor Audio, Linn Ninka, Pro Ac, Triangle...they sound as good as maggies in my opinion and they will never fail to meet your expectations given any kind of music you would want to play. cheers!

[Florian]

Get the room, electronics and setup right and they will rock, hop, beat you and astound you. There is no speaker in the same price range that will give you more sound "QUALITY"

-Flo

PS: Regarding the amp, maggies will work fine with lower powered amps, but they need tons of current (not receiver) to shine. If interested in alternatives that improve upon them, let me know via PM. I had many maggies and loved them all.

[Mike Anderson]

hi bubs,
yes indeed! maggies are really good..but only for a limited type of music. light jazz, classical and all those light and mellow music are a glory when listened to at maggies. but take note that maggies are not that impressive with more aggressive and bassful music such as rock, disco, pop, etc..

I have to disagree there. Jazz/classical/acoustic make up only a small portion of my listening. I have tons of bass-heavy music, and the 1.6's do it gloriously. They just have to be positioned properly, and driven with enough current.

Too many people are drawing this conclusion based on: 1) what they heard at a dealer's where zero attention was paid to room position; or 2) the MMGs they heard, which do indeed lack some punch.

Properly setup 1.6's will definitely rock and pump out the bass. If you want even more thump, you can always add a subwoofer.

[Florian]

I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
<o></o>
Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
<o></o>
First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planar magnetic speakers and planar magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
<o></o>
A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
<o></o>
Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
<o></o>

• Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
• Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
• Boxes can play louder<o></o>

<o></o>
But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
<o></o>
What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
<o></o>
What is a QR? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
<o></o>

Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>

<o>
</o>

The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
<o></o>
To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
<o></o>
The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
<o></o>
Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
</o><o></o>
How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
<o></o>
To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
<o></o>
A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
<o></o>
To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
<o></o>
Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
<o></o>
The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
</o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
<o></o>
As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
<o></o>
-Flo


Addon: Planars load the room more equally, which exites less room nodes and makes up for a more even in room responces. The DB drop off from a line source is far less then from a cone, dome system at 1.3m tall. You have no cabinet resonances, no driver mass, much controll and equal driver speeds and lack of coloration etc... all which make up for far MORE then if you miss the excited room nodes at 35Hz from box with cabinet resonances, high driver mass, room gain, room nodes, unequal sonic signatures etc....
<o></o>

[Florian]

I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
<o></o>
Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
<o></o>
First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planat magnetic speakers and planat magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
<o></o>
A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
<o></o>
Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
<o></o>

• Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
• Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
• Boxes can play louder<o></o>

<o></o>
But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
<o></o>
What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
<o></o>
What is a QR? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
<o></o>

Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>

<o>
</o>

The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
<o></o>
To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
<o></o>
The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
<o></o>
Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
</o><o></o>
How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
<o></o>
To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
<o></o>
A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
<o></o>
To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
<o></o>
Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
<o></o>
The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
</o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
<o></o>
As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
<o></o>
-Flo<o></o>

[GMichael]

I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
<o></o>
Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
<o></o>
First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planat magnetic speakers and planat magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
<o></o>
A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
<o></o>
Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
<o></o>

• Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
• Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
• Boxes can play louder<o></o>

<o></o>
But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
<o></o>
What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
<o></o>
What is a QR? <o></o>
<o></o>
A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
<o></o>

Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>

<o>
</o>

The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
<o></o>
The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
<o></o>
To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
<o></o>
The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
<o></o>
Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
</o><o></o>
How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
<o></o>
To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
<o></o>
A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
<o></o>
To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
<o></o>
If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
<o></o>
Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
<o></o>
The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
</o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
<o></o>
As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
<o></o>
-Flo<o></o>

But will they play hip hop?

[Kaboom]

LOOOOOOOOOL
what about nu-metal?

[Feanor]

[quote=bubslewis]
....
From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
...
/quote]

No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.

[bubslewis]

[QUOTE=Feanor]

....
From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
...
/quote]

No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.

Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.

[Woochifer]

Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.

Your room seems like a good size for the Maggies. Hopefully, they'll pass aesthetic muster with the wife, because the 1.6s are fairly large and sound optimal with a fair amount of space behind them.

But, definitely try the 1.6 with your amp before you decide. If you can't borrow the speakers for home audition, you should bring your amp to the dealer and hook it up to their demo rig. I heard the 1.6 with an Adcom amp (I believe it was the GFA-5500), and the sound started to audibly compress when it reached moderately high levels. Whether limitations with the amp or the speaker were the culprit, that combination did not work well once I turned the volume above my normal listening levels. At normal listening levels and with acoustic music, the 1.6s sounded quite good. With amplified instruments and at higher than normal levels, the results were less than ideal IMO.

[RGA]

I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels -- but for lower volumes to mid volumes the 1.6 is tough to beat --- it does many very intriguing things in this price range. The Adcom should easily have enough power to drive any of the maggies you are discussing. As usual the best thing to do is listen -- what I find a necessity in volume level you may find loud and unecessary then again if you like trance a small scale club levels then chances are you will be looking for soemthing else -- but the 1.6 is one of the better speakers in this price range -- and that is worth a listen.

[Florian]

Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy

[Bernd]

If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang.(Quote)

I thought I put my 2ct in.

I do like the example given by Florian. There is however one important factor missing from it.The cone (soccerball) and the feather (ribbon,foil,etc) are all attached to the speaker.You would have to attach the soccerball to a rubber line and the feather to some sort of frame. A correctly designed cone will stop dead when the signal demands it. Again it's quality that dictates the outcome here.

Just as a quick footnote. I experienced a superbly sounding speaker ( Soundlab A-1, driven by Musical Fidelity X-A200 mono blocks and a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista pre) yesterday at a clients house. I spotted it through a small gap in a room opposite from where we sat. And he was ever so pleased to let me listen.
Let me say from the begining -Bass- no problem. Plenty,articulate and tight. I really enjoyed my time listening to the Soundlabs.We had Deep Purple-Made in Japan, Bob Marley-Exodus,etc. The most important thing for me was that I enjoyed the music as much as I do through my ART Emotions. True the presentation is slightly different, maybe a bit more airy but also a little less natural, but those where minor facts. Could I live with them? Yes absolutly.Are they "better" then mine? That's not really the issue I believe. I loved the music being played through them. Would I swap them for mine? No, I like mine better.
So I am pleased I am not a full range planar virgin anymore. I can honestly see the attraction in them now.
So if you have the room and are on the upgrade trail I would seriously consider a panel speaker. But as was said before "No speaker is created equal".Auditioning is the key.

Peace

Bernd

[Florian]

Mmmh, now wait till you hear the A1's with a good amp. The XA-200 is good, but not good enough for the A1. You should suggest some Einstein OTL's for them and literraly see the magic and warthm. Like i said, bass is not an issue, neither is chamber resonance or driver curving, integration etc.....

Bernd has speakers costing over 10K, now let me ask you this. Name me one speaker below 10K that has the resoution, speed, integration, lack of coloration, lack of chamber resonance like the 1.6 Maggie?

Thats right...

Keep on rocking!

PS: Why does Bernd get the integration? Simple, ONLY TWO DRIVERS, DEAD chassy etc...with tubes. You wont find any box in the 1.6 range and a few thousands on top of that which more realitically produces music.

[GMichael]

Bernd has speakers costing over 10K, now let me ask you this. Name me one speaker below 10K that has the resoution, speed, integration, lack of coloration, lack of chamber resonance like the 1.6 Maggie?

.

Oooh oooh oooh, I know, I know. Let me guess. Could it be the 3.6's? Ha! Didn't think I knew did ya?

I like the Totems too though. Sure, they may be colored. But I liked their color.

[Florian]

Oooh oooh oooh, I know, I know. Let me guess. Could it be the 3.6's? Ha! Didn't think I knew did ya?

I like the Totems too though. Sure, they may be colored. But I liked their color.

But the 3.6 aint a box ;-)

Its perfectly normal to like box speakers, i have some too in my place. I am fighting against the idiots who spread lies and non-facts about my prefered type of speaker. I get just as angry at them for telling crap about planars then they get angry at me for telling them that B&W, Paradigm etc...is all junk. I'd rather listen to a transistor radio

[GMichael]

But the 3.6 aint a box ;-)

Its perfectly normal to like box speakers, i have some too in my place. I am fighting against the idiots who spread lies and non-facts about my prefered type of speaker. I get just as angry at them for telling crap about planars then they get angry at me for telling them that B&W, Paradigm etc...is all junk. I'd rather listen to a transistor radio

Oh, sorry Flo. Didn't mean to rev you up. I was just joking with ya man.

You do know that the others are not really idiots right? They just disagree with you. And they like yanking your chain.

[Florian]

Oh, sorry Flo. Didn't mean to rev you up. I was just joking with ya man.

You do know that the others are not really idiots right? They just disagree with you. And they like yanking your chain.

I know that :-)

I know that some are not idiots, but i am serious about the transistor radio

[Woochifer]

Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy

Right, relaying my own first-hand listening experiences with a Maggie 1.6/Adcom combination, praising them for normal-level acoustic music, and telling somebody to listen to that combination before they buy is "factless, non-experienced, planar bashing."

[Florian]

Sorry, dont read your replys. I told you that MONTH ago, but i am sure someday you will understand. People are already ignoring your idiotic planar and high end bashing posts. Its a good start to get more people to hunt the musical joy instead of the best buy of the week.

[Mike Anderson]

I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels

In the interests of accuracy, Woochifer said this about the Adcom driving the 1.6s.

I've never tried driving mine with an Adcom, but with my amp they do very well at high volumes.