Magnepan - Still good?

[Feanor]

[quote=bubslewis]
....
From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
...
/quote]

No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.

[bubslewis]

[QUOTE=Feanor]

....
From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
...
/quote]

No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.

Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.

[Woochifer]

Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.

Your room seems like a good size for the Maggies. Hopefully, they'll pass aesthetic muster with the wife, because the 1.6s are fairly large and sound optimal with a fair amount of space behind them.

But, definitely try the 1.6 with your amp before you decide. If you can't borrow the speakers for home audition, you should bring your amp to the dealer and hook it up to their demo rig. I heard the 1.6 with an Adcom amp (I believe it was the GFA-5500), and the sound started to audibly compress when it reached moderately high levels. Whether limitations with the amp or the speaker were the culprit, that combination did not work well once I turned the volume above my normal listening levels. At normal listening levels and with acoustic music, the 1.6s sounded quite good. With amplified instruments and at higher than normal levels, the results were less than ideal IMO.

[RGA]

I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels -- but for lower volumes to mid volumes the 1.6 is tough to beat --- it does many very intriguing things in this price range. The Adcom should easily have enough power to drive any of the maggies you are discussing. As usual the best thing to do is listen -- what I find a necessity in volume level you may find loud and unecessary then again if you like trance a small scale club levels then chances are you will be looking for soemthing else -- but the 1.6 is one of the better speakers in this price range -- and that is worth a listen.

[Florian]

Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy

[Bernd]

If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang.(Quote)

I thought I put my 2ct in.

I do like the example given by Florian. There is however one important factor missing from it.The cone (soccerball) and the feather (ribbon,foil,etc) are all attached to the speaker.You would have to attach the soccerball to a rubber line and the feather to some sort of frame. A correctly designed cone will stop dead when the signal demands it. Again it's quality that dictates the outcome here.

Just as a quick footnote. I experienced a superbly sounding speaker ( Soundlab A-1, driven by Musical Fidelity X-A200 mono blocks and a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista pre) yesterday at a clients house. I spotted it through a small gap in a room opposite from where we sat. And he was ever so pleased to let me listen.
Let me say from the begining -Bass- no problem. Plenty,articulate and tight. I really enjoyed my time listening to the Soundlabs.We had Deep Purple-Made in Japan, Bob Marley-Exodus,etc. The most important thing for me was that I enjoyed the music as much as I do through my ART Emotions. True the presentation is slightly different, maybe a bit more airy but also a little less natural, but those where minor facts. Could I live with them? Yes absolutly.Are they "better" then mine? That's not really the issue I believe. I loved the music being played through them. Would I swap them for mine? No, I like mine better.
So I am pleased I am not a full range planar virgin anymore. I can honestly see the attraction in them now.
So if you have the room and are on the upgrade trail I would seriously consider a panel speaker. But as was said before "No speaker is created equal".Auditioning is the key.

Peace

Bernd

[Florian]

Mmmh, now wait till you hear the A1's with a good amp. The XA-200 is good, but not good enough for the A1. You should suggest some Einstein OTL's for them and literraly see the magic and warthm. Like i said, bass is not an issue, neither is chamber resonance or driver curving, integration etc.....

Bernd has speakers costing over 10K, now let me ask you this. Name me one speaker below 10K that has the resoution, speed, integration, lack of coloration, lack of chamber resonance like the 1.6 Maggie?

Thats right...

Keep on rocking!

PS: Why does Bernd get the integration? Simple, ONLY TWO DRIVERS, DEAD chassy etc...with tubes. You wont find any box in the 1.6 range and a few thousands on top of that which more realitically produces music.

[Woochifer]

Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy

Right, relaying my own first-hand listening experiences with a Maggie 1.6/Adcom combination, praising them for normal-level acoustic music, and telling somebody to listen to that combination before they buy is "factless, non-experienced, planar bashing."

[Florian]

Sorry, dont read your replys. I told you that MONTH ago, but i am sure someday you will understand. People are already ignoring your idiotic planar and high end bashing posts. Its a good start to get more people to hunt the musical joy instead of the best buy of the week.

[Geoffcin]

Right, relaying my own first-hand listening experiences with a Maggie 1.6/Adcom combination, praising them for normal-level acoustic music, and telling somebody to listen to that combination before they buy is "factless, non-experienced, planar bashing."

I think the compression you've experienced with these speakers is mostly due to the amp not being able to slew enough current. If you want the 1.6's to go over 100dB then a 200 wpc+ (8 ohms) amp is a better bet. You will get compression (lose linearity) out of them past 105 dB, but that's with a kW or more going into them. At that point they become the worlds loudest radiators (heating).

[Mike Anderson]

I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels

In the interests of accuracy, Woochifer said this about the Adcom driving the 1.6s.

I've never tried driving mine with an Adcom, but with my amp they do very well at high volumes.

[Florian]

In the interests of accuracy, Woochifer said this about the Adcom driving the 1.6s.

I've never tried driving mine with an Adcom, but with my amp they do very well at high volumes.

Dont bother Mike, like i said many times before its the idiotic uninformed writing from Wooch RGA and others and their typical bashing of non-box speakers. Your amp has plenty of power and the Adcoms are OK, but not good enough for the Maggies. Bryston is also a bad match, same as McIntosh.

PS: RGA's Audio Notes will distort at a 5m distance at the max spl of the 1.6 without the room gain, which introduces a whacked frequency responce, time delay errors and unequal room loading. Wooch paradigms are ok, but nowhere close the 1.6 in absolutly no regard exept maybe that they are cuter. You have almost a line source, so much less db drop off over distance.

[bubslewis]

I would not term it "planar bashing". They were very good comments from both Mike and WOOCHIFER as far as helping me with things to watch out for. But although I can't match up to Florian's grad school level knowledge (and equipment) of planar/ribbon speaker technology, I thought his detailed essay on the subject was quite informative.

OK, enough compliments for the combatants. Let's say I do purchase a pair of 1.6's. And let's say that at some point I notice audible compression at some level of sound that may be in my listening volume range.

I would look at my ADCOM amp and say "it's you", rather than the speakers. In my limited knowledge of electronics I'm pretty sure that current does not equate with wattage. Theoretically a 50 watt amp could produce a higher current than a 200 watt amp. But I also assume that, in general, the higher the wattage is in an amp the more likely that the current delivery is also higher.

Most every amplifier lists its wattage output, such as "200 watts into 4 ohms". But I don't see any "current" specifications listed. I'm not even sure there is an applicable unit of measure for current. But that leaves me with trying to figure out what ADCOMS "large capacitors for improved current delivery" means or the fact that Behringer uses "high current toroidal transformers" This doesn't tell me anything in regard to whether the amp will produce enough to satisfy my speakers.

Seems to me that Mike would be right that a higher power amp like the Behringer EP 1500 amp (2 x 700 watts into 2 ohms) would give me a greater chance for success than my ADCOM 5400. And the Behringer is going for under $300 to boot.

[cruzin]

I use my Maggies(3.6's,MMGW's and an MMGC) for both music and HT.

Given the correct amplification,Maggies will rock with the best,and still play sweetly when required.

[bubslewis]

Feanor, Geoffcin
Thanks, that's the kind of talk I love to hear! Not sure I'm ready (either technically or financially) for Florian style upgrade just yet.

And Woocihfer, I promise to be as unbiased and neutral as possible. The first place I'm going to carries a pretty good selection of some pretty good brands. I'm willing to bet that I'll hear something as good or better than a Maggie 1.6. But I'm also not afraid to bet that they'll cost more to substantially more than the 1.6.

Not that I've heard a terrific amount of speakers in my life, but there are only 2 times that I ever remember hearing a speaker that made my heart skip: On my first speaker foray in 1973 when the guy suddenly turned on a large Altec (or Altec Lansing) that absolutely stunned me, and the other was in 1988 when I heard a Magnaplanar. But I promise to maintain an open mind.

The dealer that I'm going to is only open on Saturday and Sunday. Can't go today or tomorrow, so have to wait til next weekend. Delays, delays, delays #*&^*#!.