Emotiva tid bits from the horses mouth

[Mr Peabody]

A new front runner in the CDP search, the Creek Evolution normally $1095.00 being sold by AA $699.00. Still need to do a bit of research on it. Any one else hear it or other Creek players hit me with some feedback. I like their integrated amps a lot but haven't a great deal of experience with the CDP's.

[RoadRunner6]

RR6, not to jump on any bandwagons or anything, but you have to admit that the independent reviews aren't exactly plentiful. Speaking of looks, I'm actually not too fond of the design work that Emotiva did for it's product line. The blue & silver looks a bit kitsch to me.

I hear you, but you must remember that Emotiva is a very small company with a tiny advertising budget. The ERC-1 has only been on the market for a few months. It is getting a lot of attention considering its price. Surprisingly enough there is already a review out on the Emotiva USP-1 stereo preamp. There have been a lot of owner reviews on the ERC-1. Some sceptics complain that there are no comparisons to more expensive units and then when there is such a comparison they blast it for being a "wild claim." Sort of a damned if you don't and damned if you do, catch 22.

As far as looks, have you ever seen a Emo product in person? IMO, they look better in person where you can immediately see the superb build quality. The colors are actually black with silver trim and blue lights. I have replaced the silver end plates on my amp with black ones and I like the all black looks better. It is much more subtle than the McIntosh blue light show. My components are off to the side and the lights don't bother the video at all. My wife thinks the appearance is great and the blue lights are "wow, cool" (her own words). We both like black versus silver front panels.

Here are several comments on the ERC-1 from the Emo forum. This first one is from today.

".........I got my ERC-1 yesterday. It is the best sounding CD player I've ever heard. And I've owned many.....I just can't believe that it sounds sooooooooooo good. The ERC-1 replaced my Cambridge 650C. The Cambridge sounds a little edgy compared to the Emo......"

This is from several months back.

".....If you want to know about comparing expensive players to the ERC-1 here is my list. I have owned the following CD or SACD players and so far the ERC-1 is better player than those.

Sony SCD-1. A $5000 50lbs beast and supposed to be at the time the best SACD/CD player out there. The ERC-1 sounds more detailed and more involving than this player during redbook cd playing. Since the ERC-1 is not a SACD player I will not be able to make a comparison regarding SACD playing.

Marantz SA-1. This was Marantz first state of the art SACD player. At $7000 was supposed to be a true reference player. I think that the SA-1 was slightly better than the Sony SCD-1 in both SACD and CD playing but in Redbook CD playing the Emotiva ERC-1 is a more detailed and natural sounding CD player.

Denon 5910ci. A $3500 Universal player and while it was ok playing CDs or SACD's it does not justified the price. It is a great DVD player. No doubt about that but as a cd player it was just mediocre. The Emotiva ERC-1 will eat this unit for breakfast anytime at playing redbook cds.

Sony SCD-XA777ES. $3000 CD player. Very good player. In fact I founded to be better than the SCD-1 specially in Multichannel SACD playing. In Redbook Cd playing was much better than the Marantz but again the ERC-1 is a more detailed and involving cd player.

Sony SCD-XA9000ES . A $3500 SACD/CD player. Was supposed to be better than the SCD-XA777ES which it replaced,with better dacs but in my personal opinion the SCD-XA777ES was a better sounding unit. The SCD-XA777ES was a more neutral souding with better soundstage but not as good as the Emotiva ERC-1.

I can go on and on with the list of other cd players that I have owned previously and the ERC-1 still is a better cd player.

The only player that I have considered to be the best CD/SACD player so far is the Musical Fidelity Trivista. This player is such a detailed,natural and so involving cd player that I am yet to find a player that can sound this good. Its a $6500 CD player and I think it was worth every penny. It is also a Tube CD player so it will not be fair for me to make a fair comparison to the ERC-1. But the Emotiva ERC-1 is the closest player that has ever come to the Musical Fidelity Trivista while playing Redbook Cds.

The best way that I can described the ERC-1 is an amazing CD player that delivers enhanced linearity, dynamic range and distortion-free response in the most beautiful way possible.

The sound is so unbelievably crisp, so undeniably clear and so completely pristine, it will change the way you listen forever.

For Redbook CD playing I don't think that you will find a more involving and detailed sounding CD player under the $3000 price range.

This is the level of competition that the ERC-1 matches up to extremely well. When you stop to think that this Emotiva CDP is outperforming products that cost 15 to 20 times as much it becomes a "no brainer" as to which player offers the most BANG FOR THE BUCK!....."

Here's another posted on 9-19:

".....My Emo UPA-2 and ERC-1 arrived yesterday afternoon. When I got home I disconnected my old system—Cambridge 650A and 650C—and moved the UPA-2 and ERC-1 in. The ERC-1 is connected to an Audio Electronics AE-3 tube preamp and that in turn is connected to the UPA-2. I fired up the ERC-1. The sound is incredible! It is very detailed—so clean and clear and not too bright. I am very pleased with this tube preamp/SS combo! I am driving a pair of Polk TSi300 speakers. They’re not very expensive but the sound is fantastic with the Emo. And the bass is even deeper. It’s like I’ve got a new pair of speakers with the Emo......."

If you walked in off the street and looked at my ERC-1, (not knowing the brand or source), lifted it, looked at the remote, looked under the hood, before you even listened to it, there is no way on this planet that you would think it sold for under $1000 at the least.

[TheHills44060]

I I have replaced the silver end plates on my amp with black ones and I like the all black looks better.

That's a really good idea, i'd be interested in seeing pics.

[frenchmon]

Sony SCD-1. A $5000 50lbs beast and supposed to be at the time the best SACD/CD player out there. The ERC-1 sounds more detailed and more involving than this player during redbook cd playing. Since the ERC-1 is not a SACD player I will not be able to make a comparison regarding SACD playing.

Marantz SA-1. This was Marantz first state of the art SACD player. At $7000 was supposed to be a true reference player. I think that the SA-1 was slightly better than the Sony SCD-1 in both SACD and CD playing but in Redbook CD playing the Emotiva ERC-1 is a more detailed and natural sounding CD player.

Denon 5910ci. A $3500 Universal player and while it was ok playing CDs or SACD's it does not justified the price. It is a great DVD player. No doubt about that but as a cd player it was just mediocre. The Emotiva ERC-1 will eat this unit for breakfast anytime at playing redbook cds.

Sony SCD-XA777ES. $3000 CD player. Very good player. In fact I founded to be better than the SCD-1 specially in Multichannel SACD playing. In Redbook Cd playing was much better than the Marantz but again the ERC-1 is a more detailed and involving cd player.

Sony SCD-XA9000ES . A $3500 SACD/CD player. Was supposed to be better than the SCD-XA777ES which it replaced,with better dacs but in my personal opinion the SCD-XA777ES was a better sounding unit. The SCD-XA777ES was a more neutral souding with better soundstage but not as good as the Emotiva ERC-1.

Yeah right!. Where are the detailed reviews?

[frenchmon]

Ok...I google the guy who said it sounded better than the Marantz. the way his system looked , it was very familiar to me. I knew that I had seen that room before. So I though about where I had seen that room and found it on audiogon. So just maybe there is some credibility there. Take a look at the two systems in that same room. The first with the Marantz, the second with the Emotiva. (Sorry, dont know how to post pictures)

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1251847514.jpg


http://s618.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=DSC01721.jpg


So this guy swapped all of his Marantz gear out for the Emotiva gear? Does the midfi out perform and sound better than the Hifi....something is fish here.

[blackraven]

I agree Frenchie, why would you swap out high end Marantz gear for Emotiva unless he has 2 systems and is using the Marantz on another system or he wanted more power or a multi channel amp.

[frenchmon]

I agree Frenchie, why would you swap out high end Marantz gear for Emotiva unless he has 2 systems and is using the Marantz on another system or he wanted more power or a multi channel amp.

The system you are looking at are two systems....a hometheater and a two channel system....It just does not make sense. Here is his thread over on audiogon.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...keyw&zzmarantz

[frenchmon]

That Marantz CDP is one of the most acclaimed CDP's on the market today. It cost $7000 big ones. It aint chump change

The control amp is another fine piece at $3200 hundred and the Marantz amp is another $4500. You telling me the Emotiva is a better system? Yeah right....The repo man paid that guy a visit!


HIs new gear...XPA-2====$799. RSP-2======$699 (discontinued) ERC-!======$399


So you telling me Marantz who has been making gear for about 60 years and this system costing at about $15.000.00 is no better than Emotiva who has been around less than 10 with this system costing $1.800.00 is better? Yeah right...the repo man came a calling.

[frenchmon]

This is the only online review I could find of the guy and he does not mention Marantz at all. But he does mention some other very good gear.

03-14-09: Nypr2003
I have just purchased from Emotiva the RSP-2 Preamp,XPA-2 stereo amp and their ERT-8.3 Reference Tower Speakers and after 5 days of breakin in the whole system all I can say is "WOW", "Unbelievable","REMARKABLE".

I used to own a Parasound Halo system consisting of their famous stereophile class A rated JC1 Monoblocks,their A51 5 channel amplifier,A21 Stereo amp and their C1 processor and I used to think that after trying the FPB Krell's and other High end amps or Preamps I though that there was nothing else better than the Halos within that price range over $15K plus.

I sold my system last year because of lack of time due to my job. I felt that there was no reason to keep such a nice system in my house since I was not using it. So I sold it here on Audiogon and decided that later on I will get more or less the same system when I have more time to be able to enjoy it.

Well the time is here now and I started looking to put together a very nice system again and the first thing that came to mind was Parasound Halo Line again. That was until I came across the Emotiva Products website.

I spent quite amount of time reading about their products specially their preamps and amps. I did a side by side comparison of the Parasound Halos amps and the Emotiva amps. The Emotiva amps seem to be much better amps than the Halos exept for the fact that the Halos are THX certified and used a MOSFET driver stage and JFET input stage as opposed to Emotiva using a Triple Darlington with ON semiconductor output stages. Besides the Emotiva amps offer more power than the Halos.

I know what most of you all will say. That's just in the specs! It's the sound that matters! Yes, you are right and I will get to that in a minute.

Being quite familiar with the Halos since I owned them for almost 2 years and was very happy with their warmth and neutral sound I think that qialifies me to make a very good comparison.

Now going back to the Emotiva RSP-2 Preamp and their XPA-2 stereo amplifier. As I said before after giving them around 5 days of a good break-in period of about 16 hours a day I decided to sit down for a good listening session.

First let me say that the RSP-2 is one of the most analog sounding preamps I have ever come across. In the past have auditioned or owned many Preamps such as ,BAT tube Preamps,Classe,Proceed,Parasound Halo,Rotel,Adcom,McIntosh and Musical Fidelity and none of these Preamps have sounded as analog as the Emotiva RSP-2 Preamp. How these people at Emotiva do it its beyond me. Besides being a great sounding preamp it is a beautiful unit. It has so many features that it is hard to believe that for the price of $699 you can get features that you can only get at Preamps costing over 3 to 6 times more. The performance of the Emotiva RSP-2 Preamp is so good that you can only get this kind of performance in preamps costing way over $3K+ or more. I highly recommend this Preamp. It's really that good. in fact I had my eyes set on a Parasound JC2 Preamp and I am so glad that I didn't buy. Now I am extremely happy with my Emotiva RSP-2.

Now the XPA-2 Stereo Amplifier. What a beautiful looking unit! The Sound? Oustanding! Warmth,Neutral,Extremely Analog Sounding.Not a hint of brightness. Powerfull! Powerfull Powerfull! It has the same sound as the Halos JC1's but with more extension and more dynamics of the FPB of the Krells and still analog sounding. Between the Emotiva RSP-2 Preamp and the XPA-2 Amp it is a marriage made in heaven. It's the perfect combination.

And the ERT-8.3. Reference Speakers. Do not let the price fool you. These speakers delivered one of the most natural and clear sounds that I have only be able to hear in speakers costing over $5K+. I have owned them so I know that it will be impossible to hear a pair of $1600 speakers sound this good. But how wrong I have been. These are truly Reference Speakers.The bass extension is remarkable.I don't even need a subwoofer.Emotiva rates these speakers at Frequency response: 45hz-20Khz +/-2db byt trust me these speakers go way lower than 45hz.

Emotiva is coming out with a new Reference CD player, the ERC-1 and I have put myself on their waiting list. I know that it will be an outstanding Cd player.

Emotiva has put together a "True Reference" Line of products that proves that you can still obtain "High End Performance" without paying "High End Prices". I used to be one of the many believers that had the mentality that you needed to pay top money to get a top high end performance equipment. Guess what? Not Any more.

Emotiva has proved me wrong and.. I Stand Corrected"

Best regards to all,

Carlos Reyes
Queens, New York.

Heres the link

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...3&4&5#Nypr2003


This is unbelievable! How can they afford to sell this stuff for such a small price? I keep telling my self the wheels will come off sooner or later and we will find out the stuff only last a few years before it needs repair. It seems they are going to run every audio manufacturer out of business or force then to come down in price if this stuff catches on.

[frenchmon]

Ok..its seems as if the guy swapped out the Emotiva for the Marantz. Check out the date of this latest posting.

Marantz Marantz SA-7S1 CD Player pic
Marantz SC-11S1 Preamplifier pic
Marantz SM-11S1 Amplifier pic
Tyler Acoustics Special Custom Made Lynbrooks Speaker pic
Acoustics Zen Silver Reference II 1m. XLR Interconnect
Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference II 1m. XR Interconnect
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun 10ft. Biwired Speaker cable

Marantz Reference and Pioneer Elite Systems
This is my Marantz Reference Series Two Channel Audio System and my Pioneer Elite Home Theater System. The speakers took about 2 months to be built because everything from the cabinets to the drivers were picked by me and they were installed and the cabinets made and finished by Tyler at Tyler Acoustics. They have been terminated and wired with Cardas wire internally and finished in biwired configuration with Cardas Binding posts. These are the first pair ever made with the 10" Seas Woofers

Each Speaker weights almost 200lbs and the specifications are
Frequency- 22-25K
Sensitivity-90db
Impedance-4 ohms
30-400 watts

Now my new System consists of

Two Channel System;

Marantz Reference Series SA-7S1 SACD Player
Marantz Reference Series SC-11S1 Preamplifer
Marantz Reference Series SM-11S1 Stereo Amplifier
Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II Interconnects 1meter
Acoustic Zen Matrix Referenc II Interconnects 1 meter
Acoustic Zen 10ft. Satory Shotgun Biwired Speaker cables
RGPC 400 Pro 6,000 watts Parallel power delivery

and my Home theater consists of:

Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro 151FD 60" Plasma TV
Pioneer Elite SC-07 Receiver
Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD Blue Ray Player
Motorola Dual Tuner HD DVR DHC3416 160g Cable Box
Selah Audio Center Channel with 8" Drivers
Elan THP650LS Front Channel Speakers Wall Mounted
Elan THP650SS Surround Speakers (4) for side an back
Elan THP1200SW 12" Powered Subwoofer
Monster Signature Series AVS2000 Voltage Stabilizer
Monster Signture Series HTPS7000 MKII Power Conditioner

My Best Regards to all,

Carlos
Nypr2003 (Threads | Answers)

09-01-09


Maybe the Emotiva did not have that high end sound after all.

[frenchmon]

OK it seems this guy did in fact get rid of his Emotiva....all of it. I guess after the dust settled and cleared it had to go. Heres the thread. and the link.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/i...7&page=1#89010


*SOLD* FOR SALE EMOTIVA XPA-2 $650 SHIPPED
« Thread Started on Aug 8, 2009, 9:15pm »
I am selling my 4 months old Emotiva XPA-2 Stereo Amplifier.

AMP HAS BEEN SOLD

*THIS IS AN "A" STOCK XPA-2 PURCHASED BRAND NEW FROM EMOTIVA*

This amplifier is in "MINT" new condition since I take extremely good care of all my high end equipment. I have the original boxes and all the accessories that came with it from Emotiva.

The reason that I am selling this wonderful stereo amplifier is because I have changed my entired system and I have gone with an all Marantz Reference Series System consisting of the Marantz SA-7S1 SACD Player , the SC-11S1 Reference Control Amplifier and waiting on the SM-11S1 Stereo Power Amplifier.

I WILL SELL THE AMPLIFIER FOR $650 INCLUDING SHIPPING AND FULL INSURANCE WITHIN THE CONTINUOUS 48 STATES ONLY VIA FED EX GROUND SHIPPING.

I CAN ACCEPT A CERTIFIED CHECK OR MONEY ORDER BUT IF YOU ARE USING PAYPAL PLEASE ADD THE 3% FOR THEIR FEES. IF YOU SEND A CERTIFIED CHECK OR MONEY ORDER PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY CLEAR BEFORE SHIPPING THE AMP.

If you need to see my feedback on Audiogon as a seller and buyer of high end equipment please click on this link,

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Nypr2003


Here are pictures of the XPA-2 amp in my system ,(The RSP-2 and the ERC-1 have already being SOLD)

[Mr Peabody]

I've heard the Marantz Reference was good stuff. I haven't heard any of it except the $7k SACD, I'm talking about the very first one Marantz built when SACD was trying to get traction. I personally did not think the unit sounded like a $7k unit, a $3.5k Krell sounded better on Redbook.

I feel everyone's pain now who has tried to buy new components. We all say audition, but that is getting to be very difficult especially for those who want higher end. The only players on my list I could actually hear would be the NAD units and Rotel, if I was interested in Rotel. I like what I hear about the Creek "being musical" but I've heard it wasn't as "dynamic" as the NAD 565 or Cambridge 740/840. As much as I'd like to try a 740 or 840, I don't think I want to pay that much for a secondary player. What I might do is bring in an ERC-1 and then borrow a 565 and have a shoot out. It won't be scientific with level matching and all that but I've been doing well so far evaluating my gear in my own fashion. The 565 is getting up there in price but I like that USB feature. This could be handy if the unit ever ended up in my work out system.

[frenchmon]

I've heard the Marantz Reference was good stuff. I haven't heard any of it except the $7k SACD, I'm talking about the very first one Marantz built when SACD was trying to get traction. I personally did not think the unit sounded like a $7k unit, a $3.5k Krell sounded better on Redbook.

I feel everyone's pain now who has tried to buy new components. We all say audition, but that is getting to be very difficult especially for those who want higher end. The only players on my list I could actually hear would be the NAD units and Rotel, if I was interested in Rotel. I like what I hear about the Creek "being musical" but I've heard it wasn't as "dynamic" as the NAD 565 or Cambridge 740/840. As much as I'd like to try a 740 or 840, I don't think I want to pay that much for a secondary player. What I might do is bring in an ERC-1 and then borrow a 565 and have a shoot out. It won't be scientific with level matching and all that but I've been doing well so far evaluating my gear in my own fashion. The 565 is getting up there in price but I like that USB feature. This could be handy if the unit ever ended up in my work out system.

when was the first Marantz sacd built, 1999-2000? I think they may have come a long way sense then. There are many on the audioasylem forum who would differ from you. Then again its all subjective. Here a review on the newer units if you are intersted.

http://www.10audio.com/marantz_sa-7s1_cary_306pro.htm

http://www.10audio.com/marantz_ma-9s2.htm

Surprisingly he has not reviewed any Krell after a 138 reviews.

[Mr Peabody]

Krell hasn't made a simple CD player in quite some time and the incident where Phillips sold a bunch of bad transports really hurt some of the independent companies like Krell. I really don't know how good there SACD players are. Some may disagree but in the last ten years I feel there hasn't been huge gains in digital playback. Around 2k there were starting to appear 24 bit players and I really haven't seen any large improvements once every one got to that level. I know of some players made 10 years ago I'd still love to have. In fact, my Conrad Johnson DAC is at least that old and not 24 bit and it holds it's own very well against players from today.

If anything improved over these years to make Marantz sound better it's the SACD software. The dealer here in town doesn't seem to sell much of their disc players compared to other brands they handle. But once you get into the price range of T+A, Marantz don't have a chance. Oddly, the NAD M5 seemed to be the seller in the 8003 range. As everything else I guess it comes down to what comparisons are made and taste. This is also just one store. It would be interesting to get some sales figures from some place like Audio Advisor or Musicdirect to see which brand does better. Also, things seem to spread on forums. One person say they like something and it catches on. Blackraven did a side by side with Cambridge 840 and Marantz 8003, he preferred the 840. So regardless of fanboy rumors in the end you have to trust your ears.

Frenchmon we aren't that far in distance any more so we will have to do some listening some day. I'm not really as big of a snob as I sound

[RoadRunner6]

I've heard the Marantz Reference was good stuff. I haven't heard any of it except the $7k SACD, I'm talking about the very first one Marantz built when SACD was trying to get traction. I personally did not think the unit sounded like a $7k unit, a $3.5k Krell sounded better on Redbook.

I feel everyone's pain now who has tried to buy new components. We all say audition, but that is getting to be very difficult especially for those who want higher end. The only players on my list I could actually hear would be the NAD units and Rotel, if I was interested in Rotel. I like what I hear about the Creek "being musical" but I've heard it wasn't as "dynamic" as the NAD 565 or Cambridge 740/840. As much as I'd like to try a 740 or 840, I don't think I want to pay that much for a secondary player. What I might do is bring in an ERC-1 and then borrow a 565 and have a shoot out. It won't be scientific with level matching and all that but I've been doing well so far evaluating my gear in my own fashion. The 565 is getting up there in price but I like that USB feature. This could be handy if the unit ever ended up in my work out system.

"..........It won't be scientific with level matching and all that .........."


...And you have the nerve to criticize other's evaluations? You're going to do an A/B comparison without even bothering to level match the components, what a phony audiophile! How much credibility do you think your evaluation merits?

[RoadRunner6]

I'm not really as big of a snob as I sound

That's what you sound like to my ears!

[RoadRunner6]

Maybe the Emotiva did not have that high end sound after all.

I suggest you compare what he paid for the Emotiva equipment to what he has now.

Carlos seems like a very nice guy who just apparently has money coming out of his ears. I think he is the type of personality that changes underwear every hour and audio/HT systems almost as frequently.


He said not too long ago:

"..........Im back! After spending around 5 months with my Emotiva gear I was bitten by the "upgrade bug" and decided that it was time to go an all Marantz Reference Series assault and my New Special Custom Made Tyler Acoustics Full Range Speakers.

Please do not get me wrong. The Emotiva gear is an outstanding system considering what they cost. You will not find a better audiophile quality gear for the price. I still wonder how is it that Emotiva can make a profit considering what they ask for their products.

All I can say is that I have been very happy with the Emotiva gear while I had it and enjoyed it very much. But as it always happens in this hobby, I got bitten by upgrade bug and here is my New Marantz Reference Series with my New Special Custom Made Tyler Acoustics Lynbrook Signature Series with a pair on each speaker of 10" Seas Aluminum Cone Woofers.

These speakers took about 2 months to be built because everything from the cabinets to the drivers were picked by me and they were intalled and the cabinets made and finished by Tyler at Tyler Acoustics. They have been terminated and wired with Cardas wire internally and finished in biwired configuration with Cardas Binding posts. These are the first pair ever made with the 10" Seas Woofers,,,,,,,,,,"

[Mr Peabody]

"..........It won't be scientific with level matching and all that .........."


...And you have the nerve to criticize other's evaluations? You're going to do an A/B comparison without even bothering to level match the components, what a phony audiophile! How much credibility do you think your evaluation merits?

Well, turn me in, they can have my license. Like I said it works for me. I don't have a problem being able to tell what a CD player sounds like and whether I prefer one over another. And, any one can take what I say or leave it because in the end, which ever player, I, will be the one listening to it. And, I suppose I'm as credible as it gets until you prove me wrong. In addition, one ERC reviewer says it's not as good as a 19 year old JVC, another says it is slightly better than his DVD player, then, we have Carlos, who thinks it's almost as good as a $7k Marantz, so I feel I don't really have much of a standard I need to live up to.

The ERC is $300.00 cheaper than the other competition on my list, if you think it won't get a fair shake you give yourself too much credit. Because I won't have a probelm what so ever saying it was better, if, in fact, it is. And, if it isn't better, you'll just have to live with it while I live without it.

[frenchmon]

MrP....I will have to take ou p on that offer one day.

RoadRunner6 dont be so easily moved. MrP has an opinion like we all do. I fine it very unbelievable to think a $400 machine is as good as a $7000 machine as well. Now Krell and Maantz have two diffeent distinct characteristics. Its my opinion that Emotivia is trying to find its way...and its people like Carlos that will make or break the Emotive for a certain market. I've researched the guy and saw many postings by him that I did not post, but noticed the guy has change gear a few times but he has always used more high end stuff. This was pretty much the first time he has used midfi stuff with the Emotiva....gave it a good report, and what does he do....go back to hifi. Lets see what the audiophile community is saying about emotiva in about a couple of years. Oh and BTW...I ran across some guys who tested Rotels new stuff to Emotiva new amps...and the Emotiva while good had high THD. But for some it does not matter, while others it does...its all subjective.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, when they did the Emo vs Rotel, how did the power look? The Emo amps are supposed to be conservatively rated to say the least. Also, Kex has an Emo amp which he compared to Rotel and Adcom. He thought the Emo was some better than both.

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, when they did the Emo vs Rotel, how did the power look? The Emo amps are supposed to be conservatively rated to say the least. Also, Kex has an Emo amp which he compared to Rotel and Adcom. He thought the Emo was some better than both.

Mr Peabody, All they said was the Emotiva was good but rated high in THD and Rotel was lower in THD.

[nightflier]

Interesting discussion. A couple of quick notes:

- The USB port on that NAD is not USB-standard compliant. NAD has acknowledged this problem but it's not offering a fix. According to Stereophile, if you unplug a USB device from the player while music is playing, you could actually break the player (the reviewer actually did this). Maybe when they get a bunch of warranty returns....

- AA was selling a Creek Evo this morning for $549 (open box), but someone snapped it up pretty quick. I've been eying that one for a while, but I keep hearing positive as well as negative reviews so I'm still on the fence. For $549, though, that's a hard one to ignore. Most accounts say it is on the warm/dark side of neutral and while that's my preference, the rest of my gear is too, so it may not be the best fit for me.

- Mr. P., a quick question, how would your describe the sound of the T+A? My experience with anything German, French or Scandinavian has typically been analytical and dry, but I don't know T+A at all. I wonder how that would compare to Cairn, Primare or Bryston (a Canadian that seems to share the trait). There's a Primare CD21 on A-gon for $850, I believe, but No T+A players. There's also a Bryston for $1900, but that's too rich for my blood.

- Unless I missed it, no one mentioned any players with tube complements (Jolida, Vincent, Cayin, Cary, etc.). I wouldn't mind hearing from some of you who own or who've owned one. I had a Music Hall tube DAC for a few weeks and I didn't think it improved my player much so I returned it. Anyhow just wondering.

- While the Emotiva is just over $400, I still can't bring myself to actually buy one. The looks of it bother me a great deal and the slot-loading doesn't help either. Frankly, I'd pay an extra $200-300 for a comparable player just because of it - there's no use buying something I'm going to hate looking at and using.

- I'm also curious about what's coming out of the East these days. Brands like Dussun, Xindak, MHZS, Shengya, Roksan, Shanling, even some of the more curious names like Lite, Dugood, and Bada all have impressive specs and most of the time, the looks aren't too kitsch. Speaking of Asian-manufacturing, here's one from a brand called "Winner" who's innards look dubiously similar to Emotiva's:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ToneWinner-TY-20...d=p3286.c0.m14

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for the tip NF, I'll just look at the 545 then, supposedly the sound isn't much different just upgrade in features. Of course, one of the features is upsampling which could make a difference.

The T+A provides tons of detail but doesn't sound analytical in the way some criticize Krell, the T+A remains musical. The sound I would describe as a more robust Arcam style sound, the mentioned detail and wide frequency response with stunning bass. T+A is a difficult sound to describe because they aren't what one would call warm or analytical, they just do what they are supposed to do very well and the sound is sweet without lacking anything.

From people I've spoken to and reviews read the Creek Evo is consistently agreed "musical" but on the down side "lacks dynamics", said another way "lack of attack". I like that dark presentation as well but I still like my kick drum to have a kick.

The Primare 31.7 was an excellent preamp processor but I don't care for their CD playback. The sound stage seems comparatively smaller or more intimate which isn't always bad but there was a sound characteristic that annoyed me to the point I couldn't listen. It was like an edginess, or maybe what you said was overly dry.

Jack at Spearitsound thinks highly of the Shanling players but I have not heard one. Wasn't it Bernd who bought one of Shanling's all-in-one units? He seemed to like it pretty well. I've yet to hear any of those Chinese players yet.

I still have my Audio Note DAC if you'd be interested in trying that for tube playback. One down side to them is the lack of ample connectivity. They provide XLR & BNC digital inputs and the BNC can be adapted to coaxial which is what I do.

[Mr Peabody]

Actually, NF, you should follow the link in my sig and check out T+A's website. They do have a line of tube gear. And, other of their amps use the PWM switching. Their solid state amps are lightning fast, detailed with excellent bass. They don't have the brute force for difficult loads like Krell and I prefer the superior refinement of Krell's high end. I have not heard T+A tube amps but I have heard their $8k tube CD player and it is in the group of best players I've heard.

I was hoping maybe some one else would hear something by them so I can see if I'm the only fan boy. The guys told me I can borrow the matching "Power Station" integrated to my player but I'm about half afraid to. It could be the piece that is the compromise between tube and solid state for me. Then I'd have a delimma.

When the dealer first brought in T+A and still supported Krell they put two systems together of each in the same room. The T+A system had one of their CDP, a preamp and two amps bridged mono. Same set up with all Krell, except the krell were true monoblocks. I believe the T+A came to around $15k where the Krell was over $45K. Using the same set of Dynaudio it was an impressive comparison. As stated, typically consistent, the Krell had a more refined high end, not more extended, just refined to the point it could be extended but remain less offensive. Not that the T+A was offensive. What startled me was the bass response of the T+A was overall better. The Krell had more weight but with the T+A bass lines were a bit more defined and agile without being thin or lack punch.

T+A recently dumped their distributor and from what I hear will remain without one. This brought prices down slightly but i wonder how getting product will be. I think they only have about ten U.S. dealers. I know the markets are in the toilet but I'd like to see them with more presence here.

[kexodusc]

Frenchmon, when they did the Emo vs Rotel, how did the power look? The Emo amps are supposed to be conservatively rated to say the least. Also, Kex has an Emo amp which he compared to Rotel and Adcom. He thought the Emo was some better than both.

I have only compared it to my Adcom and Rotel amps...oh and some NAD integrateds (old 3140 and 3020). Hardly an exhaustive list, but I am very impressed.
The amps at least are very high quality, solid built, decent sounding. Serious competition for the likes of NAD, Rotel, Adcom...even if you felt one of the other brands sounded a bit better or more to your personal taste, I'm sure you'd concede it as a smart option.

I know of 1 person whose opinion I trust that has had more Emotiva gear - the person that begged me to try the amp I bought for a year because he was happy with his experience. He had one of their old pre-pros and swore it was a big step up in sound quality over his old Integra 5.1 DTS processor...but he's since forked out month's salary for a very nice Arcam unit with all the HDMI goodies...and he likes the Arcam a lot better - which isn't really a fair comparison...

I don't know about some of the Emo fan boys claims about their stuff taking on gear costing 4-10 times as much. Let's be honest, to an untrained ear, the differences between the likes of NAD and Krell might not sound that big anyway...

I think Emotiva is trying to be a quality, entry-to-mid level separates company - for the price of their processors and amps you can say good bye to $1000-$2000 receivers, integrateds, etc, and be much better off. Like Outlaw, their prices started low, but have increased moderately as the brand has grown. I don't think they'll be taking over the industry, but they're probably a decent alternative to some of the usual suspects for people on a budget. No doubt their business model offers some huge cost advantages. But having said that, if the electronics industry is like the speaker industry, there's tons of wiggle room so we shouldn't be shocked by their prices...They've been around awhile now, but I'd like to see where they are in 5 more years - my guess is they keep putting prices up.

Just my 2 cents.