Week 4: 50 Records that Changed Music.

[SlumpBuster]

You can't talk about rap, and you definately can't talk about NWA without talking about race. White America has stolen/misappropriated every major musical format to grow out of black musical traditions. Jazz, blues, R&B, rock & roll, even funk have all been mainstreamed by white artists.

Straight Outta Compton drew a line in the sand and said "You ain't gettin' your hands on this one!" It is the album that forever made it virtually impossible to be a white rapper. Beasties, Eminem, Bubba Sparxx is all I can think of, not counting all the crappy one hit wonders. And they all made it by celebrating their "whiteness" rather than trying to push some fake azz street cred.

[3-LockBox]

You can't talk about rap, and you definately can't talk about NWA without talking about race. White America has stolen/misappropriated every major musical format to grow out of black musical traditions. Jazz, blues, R&B, rock & roll, even funk have all been mainstreamed by white artists.

zzzzzzzzz........

Straight Outta Compton drew a line in the sand and said "You ain't gettin' your hands on this one!"

and I haven't

It is the album that forever made it virtually impossible to be a white rapper.

Gawd, I wish that were true

Beasties, Eminem, Bubba Sparxx is all I can think of, not counting all the crappy one hit wonders.

You forgot rap and country music darling, Kid Rock. and don't forget Flava Flave's homey, Vanilla Ice (obescure Arsenio Hall reference). Aaron Carter (he sure sounds like a playa) and of course the latest flavor, hippety-hop artists Big & Rich with their 'gangsta style' videos.

And they all made it by celebrating their "whiteness" rather than trying to push some fake azz street cred.

Except that Kid Rock seems to have ditched his black roots for hippety hop, Aaron Carter apes gangsta rap (with a touch of Joey Lawrence thrown in), Vanilla Ice lied about being in gangs and "throwin down and shlt" and getting stabbed, Eminem rides the coattales of Dr Dre and sells more than any rap artist before him, and all he does is talk smack about other rappers now; the only whiteness he ever celebrated was his trailor trashness. And The Beastie Boyz weren't gangsta rap.

But really, Gangsta Rap isn't as scarey as it once was. Most of these gangstaz and playaz from back in tha day are TV whores; seen Flava Of Love? That show should be rated 'E', for eeewwww!!! Snoop Dog has made commercials making lite of his famed lingo.(forshizzel).

Influencial? Yes, Straight Outta Compton was indeed. Does it carry a negative legacy within its own ranks? Yes. Has it too, been co-opted by big business? I've already mentioned Big & Rich. Before you know it, you're gonna be watching a rodeo (yeah, right) and a hip-hop-a-long cowboy's gonna jump of his horse, rope-n-tie a little calf, then jump up and yell "Take that Biotch!" while making east/west fingers into the camera.

[nobody]

You can't talk about rap, and you definately can't talk about NWA without talking about race. White America has stolen/misappropriated every major musical format to grow out of black musical traditions. Jazz, blues, R&B, rock & roll, even funk have all been mainstreamed by white artists.

Straight Outta Compton drew a line in the sand and said "You ain't gettin' your hands on this one!" It is the album that forever made it virtually impossible to be a white rapper. Beasties, Eminem, Bubba Sparxx is all I can think of, not counting all the crappy one hit wonders. And they all made it by celebrating their "whiteness" rather than trying to push some fake azz street cred.

I'm of two minds about this. I certainly see shadows of this theory all over American music. However, when does this whole stealing/misappropriating thing start and legitimate artistic, cross-cultural influences stop?

I mean, yeah African slaves brought polyrhythmic exploration and other common traits to the new world and fused them into new musical forms. But, if the white folks in America had no influence...why the heck didn't any of this new music come out of Africa in the first place? There has always been cross-pollination of music.

And, I may argue that gansta rap has been just the opposite of something black musicians could keep their own as it has become one of the biggest selling genres out there today, often codified into cookie-cutter sameness by white record executives to sell to wanna-be-rebellious, suburban white kids music made by black folks still falling for the ol' do a jig for whitey thing.

Then, there’s the realization that hip hop is far from a black only thing considering most musicians of the age where you expect popular musicians to make their greatest impact, whether black or white, have grown up hearing hip hop from childhood. So, its influence certainly stretches across cultural lines.

Not really sure where I fall on this one, to be honest. I see lots of evidence on both sides of these arguments, but just thought I'd toss 'em out there...

[DariusNYC]

You can't talk about rap, and you definately can't talk about NWA without talking about race. White America has stolen/misappropriated every major musical format to grow out of black musical traditions. Jazz, blues, R&B, rock & roll, even funk have all been mainstreamed by white artists.

Straight Outta Compton drew a line in the sand and said "You ain't gettin' your hands on this one!" It is the album that forever made it virtually impossible to be a white rapper. Beasties, Eminem, Bubba Sparxx is all I can think of, not counting all the crappy one hit wonders. And they all made it by celebrating their "whiteness" rather than trying to push some fake azz street cred.

I think you can definitely talk about rap music without talking about race. I don't think it was in any event a big subject to NWA's music, nor in most rap music. However, I don't think you can intelligently discuss white people's, and white America's reaction to rap music without discussing race. (But maybe that's what you meant.)

I hear your point on your second paragraph, but would consider Pall Wall as a good contrary example. I think it comes down to not faking being part of a different culture than you are. He doesn't do that -- he's not faking his culture -- and he actually sounds black to most people with his Southern drawl. Eminem and Beasties definitely do not sound black, and they're not faking it either.

The glorification, and the vilification, of this album or ones like it as a cultural event as opposed to a piece of music -- like the arguments over the revolutionary and/or destructive potential of punk in the mid-late 70s -- has gotten a bit boring to me. It's all so exaggerated. Rebellious, purposely offensive music and lyrics and image, etc., will always rile people up -- and a large portion of the youth will always respond to that. But maybe I'm jaded but I don't see record albums any more as drawing these significant cultural lines in the sand.

Sort of a mixed, random collection of thoughts, I suppose, but what the heck.

[bobsticks]

The glorification, and the vilification, of this album or ones like it as a cultural event as opposed to a piece of music -- like the arguments over the revolutionary and/or destructive potential of punk in the mid-late 70s -- has gotten a bit boring to me. It's all so exaggerated. Rebellious, purposely offensive music and lyrics and image, etc., will always rile people up -- and a large portion of the youth will always respond to that. But maybe I'm jaded but I don't see record albums any more as drawing these significant cultural lines in the sand. .

Hey Darius,
I agreed with the majority of your post. I will, however, have to respectfully disagree with your closing sentence. I think what NWA did was different than what PE was doing simultaneously, and the output of those to follow.
The difference lying in the execution and nature of the themes. With PE you got a stream of consciousness involving an entire spectrum of thought. Violent?Occasionally, but within context. PE's violence was based largely on scenarios set within the work.For instance, "Back Steel in the Hour of Chaos" is, indeed, violent. But its violence is aimed at a specific and oppressive target.
What NWA did was to make violence the first, not the final, recourse. And when you look at "cultural lines" I don't think it's as simple as black and white. I think you may need to look in terms of socio-economic--upper, lower, and middle classes.
The message becomes, consciously or not, that it's OK to be uneducated. That mysogeny is acceptable and that each day holds kill or be killed situations. It has been said before, and I agree, that this album and its progeny have been seen not as commentary but as advocacy.
It's socially irresponsible to beat into people the idea that if you'r edisadvantaged you can never work your way above it. It's socially irresponsible to glorify self-negating behavior. And, we've seen that historically messages repeated often enough will come to fruition, for good or ill...
Cheers

[3-LockBox]

.
What NWA did was to make violence the first, not the final, recourse. And when you look at "cultural lines" I don't think it's as simple as black and white. I think you may need to look in terms of socio-economic--upper, lower, and middle classes.
The message becomes, consciously or not, that it's OK to be uneducated. That mysogeny is acceptable and that each day holds kill or be killed situations. It has been said before, and I agree, that this album and its progeny have been seen not as commentary but as advocacy.
It's socially irresponsible to beat into people the idea that if you'r edisadvantaged you can never work your way above it. It's socially irresponsible to glorify self-negating behavior. And, we've seen that historically messages repeated often enough will come to fruition, for good or ill...

That's kinda what I was getting at a few post ago. While social commentary has always been at the core of rap (as well violence) it was done in a cautionary or parable context. NWA changed that by portraying the worst the culture had to offer. I can't say whether or not they meant it to sound cautionary; maybe they were just trying to portray the life on the street senario to it's most violent conclusion. But it does seem that the audience for this brand of rap embraced and held to esteem the characters being portrayed on these albums; instead of those thugs being the bad example, they became the example.

But its like someone already mentioned, its almost become a parody of itself, much like the punk movement did, although, gangsta rap lasted a lot longer than punk ever did. And I do think fans of rap are coming around and taking these newer gangstaz with a grain of salt. Perhaps the gangsta rap era will give way to brand of rap that will eschew violence, much in the same way 'punk' eschewed the hedonistic phoniness of Disco, and the way grunge railed against the conspicuous consumption of the '80s. Let's face it, nothin glorified self-negating behavior more than the heavy metal scene of the '80s, but the rock audience got tired of it and moved on. I hope the same thing happens in rap (though pop-muzak seems unchanged since the '80s)

[MasterCylinder]

Rap is crap.

Rap sucks.

I understand this thread is about influence and this release may deserve credit.

All I can tell you is that it did not influence me.

[Resident Loser]

...little to add to the overall tone of the thread all I have to say is:

Is it time for number five yet?

jimHJJ(...huh? is it?...huh?...)

[Swish]

...little to add to the overall tone of the thread all I have to say is:

Is it time for number five yet?

jimHJJ(...huh? is it?...huh?...)

It's one per week for 50 weeks, as I mentioned when I posted the first one. Yeah, some of you have already seen the list and know what's coming, thereby spoiling some of my fun. We keep seeing a bunch of lists on this board (top 100 guitar records, top 50 of the year) and we see them all at once. I think that revealing them one at a time would work better, so we can concentrate on each one rather than the whole stinking list, diluting the effect in my opinion. So let's see if you can hold hold your horses and wait until next Monday for # 5.

Swish

[BradH]

You can't talk about rap, and you definately can't talk about NWA without talking about race.

That's arguably true about NWA but not rap in general unless you take the excruciatingly dull and narrow view that social commentary is the most important thing in music. It is possible to talk about rap in strictly musical terms regarding styles, influences, etc.

White America has stolen/misappropriated every major musical format to grow out of black musical traditions. Jazz, blues, R&B, rock & roll, even funk have all been mainstreamed by white artists.

Would it have been better for those genres to stay isolated? Dare I say, ghetto-ized? And btw, black musicians helped mainstream those genres too.

Straight Outta Compton drew a line in the sand and said "You ain't gettin' your hands on this one!" It is the album that forever made it virtually impossible to be a white rapper.

Thank GOD! It's like....a permanent ghetto!!

Beasties, Eminem, Bubba Sparxx is all I can think of, not counting all the crappy one hit wonders. And they all made it by celebrating their "whiteness" rather than trying to push some fake azz street cred.

But isn't it ironic that NWA also spawned so much fake a$$ street cred from black rappers?

There's no question that this album "changed the face of music". But I'll take the Africa Bambataa and Natives Tongues strain over Dre anyday. I don't see NWA as having more credibility than De La Soul describing arguing with the "Bitties in the BK Lounge", an experience more common to the black community than dragging them into the alley and beating the hell out of them. The fact that De La dismissed gangsta rap as being phony just lends more real credibility to them imo.

[nobody]

I don't see NWA as having more credibility than De La Soul describing arguing with the "Bitties in the BK Lounge", an experience more common to the black community than dragging them into the alley and beating the hell out of them. The fact that De La dismissed gangsta rap as being phony just lends more real credibility to them imo.

I agree with ya here.

Sure, you got some real thugs tossed in there, but I figure you've got about the same percentage of real gangstas in gangsta rap as you do satan worshippers in heavy metal.