Week 12: 50 Albums That Changed Music

**MindGoneHaywire** · 10-02-2006, 02:04 PM

You nailed it, Troy.

From someone who doesn't seem to know that it's far from accepted that Miles was 'totally responsible for the material.' Funny how a guy who's a pro in NYC would never have become acquainted with the reason why Bill Evans disputed this, and holds co-credit on some pressings...but not others. Many familiar with the issue saw him as the sole author of a tune Miles claims sole credit on.

The guy who tells other people they have no business listening to music...doesn't seem to know this.

This is certainly among my favorite jazz albums, and one I've listened to as much if not more than any other, possibly excepting Coltrane's Blue Train. But the self-righteous 'this is brilliant' schtick that's great when it's a record you can use to accuse a non-fan of not possessing a soul, but not so great when it's pretentious NYC artiness in rock music made in the same town only 8 years later is as laughable as any of the other garbage previously posted in any of the other threads.

Beyond the use of ambient music as background as is described here, and so forth, one could also make a case that its modal properties led directly to the experimentation of Coltrane, Coleman et al, much of which, it should be noted, has been dismissed with far more disdain than our pal here objected to the recs in this thread he doesn't like, or the people the recs influenced.

If you don't like this rec, I would say, it's quite possible you won't like jazz in general. But I wouldn't inject the stupidity into that comment by rendering it an absolute, or anything close. It's a good rec. I think it deserves to be listened to again & again. It certainly was influential. But you're just as likely to put up an obstacle to someone liking jazz by saying such things. I don't see the point.

**Resident Loser** · 10-03-2006, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire

You nailed it, Troy.

From someone who doesn't seem to know that it's far from accepted that Miles was 'totally responsible for the material.' Funny how a guy who's a pro in NYC would never have become acquainted with the reason why Bill Evans disputed this, and holds co-credit on some pressings...but not others. Many familiar with the issue saw him as the sole author of a tune Miles claims sole credit on.

The guy who tells other people they have no business listening to music...doesn't seem to know this.

This is certainly among my favorite jazz albums, and one I've listened to as much if not more than any other, possibly excepting Coltrane's Blue Train. But the self-righteous 'this is brilliant' schtick that's great when it's a record you can use to accuse a non-fan of not possessing a soul, but not so great when it's pretentious NYC artiness in rock music made in the same town only 8 years later is as laughable as any of the other garbage previously posted in any of the other threads.

Beyond the use of ambient music as background as is described here, and so forth, one could also make a case that its modal properties led directly to the experimentation of Coltrane, Coleman et al, much of which, it should be noted, has been dismissed with far more disdain than our pal here objected to the recs in this thread he doesn't like, or the people the recs influenced.

If you don't like this rec, I would say, it's quite possible you won't like jazz in general. But I wouldn't inject the stupidity into that comment by rendering it an absolute, or anything close. It's a good rec. I think it deserves to be listened to again & again. It certainly was influential. But you're just as likely to put up an obstacle to someone liking jazz by saying such things. I don't see the point.

...you folks do get b!tchy don'cha...As I've said, my knowledge of the genre is sorely lacking...While I have a tenuous grasp of the periods in classical and who begat who musically, unfortunately I have little idea how WC Handy morphed into Scott Joplin into Louis Armstrong into Dizzie Gillespie and so on and so forth and shoobie-doobie-oobie...so friggin' shoot me, but I'm tryin'...And a BIG P.S. I was a rocker and jazz wasn't "...what they called rock'n'roll..." (with apologies to Mr. Knopfler)

Re: authorship...I'm goin' by some discographies who give songwriters names for Davis' other albums from Gershwin to Adderly to Cyndi Lauper et al...KOB don't...and yes, I've seen mention of some things (vamps and bridges) that were a product of others involved in the sessions...you yourself say it's hit-or-miss for proper credit...and in case you didn't get the overall gist of it, I posted most my remarks in the form of a question...or at least in an interrogative form...Don't have an answer...

Did the record influence anyone...don't know...honestly don't care...I do see a difference between Birth Of The Cool in '49-50 straddling the line of the big-band/be-bop eras...to '55-56s Relaxin' With The Miles Davis Quintet and the other titles of that last-of- Prestige series to '59s KOB with it's much more blues influenced tracks...

'Brilliant"??? Who said that? Not me baby? Obviously I failed in my little novella of sorts...This sound of this recording transports me to those dark, smokey places of the imagination and in doing that it is "near perfect"...Does it belong on this "influential" list? They (the compilers) said it, I didn't...but then again I don't think much of the list to begin with, as some of you may have gathered...

Originally Posted by MGH

...If you don't like this rec, I would say, it's quite possible you won't like jazz in general...

Originally Posted by RL

...I've given it as a gift and recommended it to strangers who were floundering, looking through Jazz selections, quite confused as to what to buy as a baby-step...I've told them "...if you don't like this, you have no soul"...and after my revisit yesterday, I'd add to that "...and you have no business listening to music..."

Notice the above quotes...exactly what's the diff? I'm not proselytizing to the uninterested...simply opening up that "green door" and revealing some of the secrets it's keeping to those who are curious...Anyone get the ref?

No it doesn't speak of pimps, pushers and disease, but once you get in the groove IMNSHO it can speak to those who do have a musical soul and are willing to think and hear beyond banal lyrics and five note melodies...

And just in case it slipped by the sound-bite conditioned mind, the list still $uck$...this recording is cool...

jimHJJ(...Don't like my postings...write a strong letter to the Times...)

**Troy** · 10-03-2006, 09:33 AM

Oh come ON Loser! You trying to tell me that "If you don't like this you probably won't like jazz." and "...if you don't like this, you have no soul / have no business listening to music." are the same? Your quotes are so far over the top as to be ridiculous. Even MGH's comment is a big stretch.

Villify me for disliking "Kinda Blue" if you must, but I MUCH prefer the fusion like Weather Report, Return to Forever, Zappa etc. that was influenced by it. MGH saying I won't like jazz if I dislike Kinda Blue is just plain wrong. Your insinuation is just plain insulting.

And thanks for not addressing me directly. Thanks also for implying that I only like musical forms that "speak of pimps, pushers and disease" or "banal lyrics and five note melodies..." because I don't dig Miles. As if music or freekin LIFE was that black and white!

**Resident Loser** · 10-03-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Troy

Oh come ON Loser! You trying to tell me that "If you don't like this you probably won't like jazz." and "...if you don't like this, you have no soul / have no business listening to music." are the same? Your quotes are so far over the top as to be ridiculous. Even MGH's comment is a big stretch.

Villify me for disliking "Kinda Blue" if you must, but I MUCH prefer the fusion like Weather Report, Return to Forever, Zappa etc. that was influenced by it. MGH saying I won't like jazz if I dislike Kinda Blue is just plain wrong. Your insinuation is just plain insulting.

And thanks for not addressing me directly. Thanks also for implying that I only like musical forms that "speak of pimps, pushers and disease" or "banal lyrics and five note melodies..." because I don't dig Miles. As if music or freekin LIFE was that black and white!

...I was responding to MGH...you can read into my response anywhichway you wanna' and I've not yet said word one to you...however since you asked sooo nice...

Originally Posted by troy

...well, how can you claim that this list wallows in a stew of misplaced hyperbole and then say stupid things like this?...

Did I ever say the underlined?

Did I say this recording belongs on the list?

Did I say it was influential?

Did I ever say you have to like it?

Might the answer be definitive "no" to all the above?

I don't have the time to diagram sentences or coach you in any sort of remedial reading exercises...Of all the things you might be villified for, disliking this recording (or anything else for that matter) is the least of them to be concerned about...

Some time back there was a 7UP ad that was running on the east coast...In it the tag line was " make 7UP yours!..." I'll allow you to disregard the word "make" and the number "7" at a convenient time and place of your choosing to decode my special response...

jimHJJ(...was that direct enough for you?...)

**Troy** · 10-03-2006, 12:34 PM