Rolling Stone Greatest 500 Albums of all time

[MindGoneHaywire]

Hey, Worf, I agree that the list is bullsh*t too, but first of all, you act like you'd expect something different, second of all...does it really matter all that much? Now...you ready for this, maf? I've got a bone to pick with a couple of things here.

>Rolling Stone wasn't even around till the late 60's and who on that rag has the perspective to put such a list togther?

Come on now, you should know better than that. Now, I don't know or care who writes for 'em now, and I don't think it really matters all that much. They took a poll of writers & musicians & you'd better believe that Wenner had his hands all over the top 10, or 25, or 50, or whatever. Since they asked people like Britney Spears...whose choices probably mean a lot to a lot of people, since she does manage to sell an awful lot of records, and whose list isn't quite as bad as one might expect (heavy on Prince & Michael Jackson, and with only one record that I'd say is completely unlistenable)...and others whose sense of history is probably, er, not fully developed, I can see the results being an awful lot worse than they actually are. The '100 Greatest Guitarists' list was FAR, far worse...as I complained long & loudly on that, Les Paul was #46, and Django Reinhardt didn't even make it. But that's not to say that RS never had decent writers. Remember that Ralph Gleason was there with 'em in the late '60s, and they've had their share of good writers--Greil Marcus, Lester Bangs, even Kurt Loder...people who knew something about music. Those days may be long gone, but that doesn't mean that they no longer have anyone decent. What it means is that what we're left with is basically Wenner's own idol worship. And he's always worshiped the people who befriended his star-struck ass.

>As far as Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper's are concerned I have to say they're definately two of the LEAST INFLUENTIAL albums I've ever heard.

I simply cannot understand the basis for this statement. Any pop or rock record that is a song cycle that concentrates on emotions that run any deeper than teenage crushes & attempts in any way to be a cohesive whole is influenced by Pet Sounds, and that's a lot of records. Any pop or rock record that is a song cycle that tries to tell a story, or tries to be what became commonly known as a 'concept' album, is influenced by Sgt. Pepper. These are undeniable, historical facts. So far as I'm concerned, they're both overhyped, overblown, & even overrated, but there's a reason why: for years afterward, artists who WERE influenced by these records weren't shy about letting the world know exactly where their inspiration lay. Rolling Stone, of course, always took this sort of thing to absurd extremes, but that doesn't mean that giving credit where it's due is not valid in these cases. But they're also influential for other reasons: both involved having outside players come in (in the case of Pet Sounds, for the entire album), and both veered into a symphonic realm, with heavy use of strings. The arrangements & the production were also ground-breaking. These were the first albums where people realized that they could be spending their time putting work into an album as an artistic statement as a whole. Simply put, they made the pop/rock album what it is--the standard by which an artist is judged, as opposed to singles. Sgt. Pepper has not aged well, but I would disagree on that count when it comes to Pet Sounds. The themes expressed are timeless, had never been explored, and for that reason have not sunk to the level of cliches--unless you heard work influenced by Pet Sounds FIRST that made Pet Sounds sound like just another introspective album dealing with personal feelings. But in the pop and rock realm, it was the first. You want to say these records are overrated, fine. You want to say they weren't influential, no way. If you'd like me to go to the trouble to name names & works, I'd be happy to.

[Worf101]

[
As for saying that neither album is "influential"... That would be a bit harsh I suppose and I apologize. I'm a musician... Although its not my main gig... I'm respected by my peers and know a bit about the subject from Louis Jordan and his Tympani Five to some of today's "artists", I don't disparrage lightly. I judge an albums importance or greatness by what I feel it accomplishes in music. Did the album change the face of music? Does it transcend it's genre? Is it's influence still felt in music today? Does it carry historical significance? These are my measuring sticks but they're only mine.

As interesting as Pet Sounds is to listen to do you hear anything like it today? Besides possibly influcencing Sgt. Pepper did it notably move anyone? I love "Wouldn't it be Nice" as much as anyone one but what speaks more to today's world, that song or "What's Going On?" Marvin Gaye's questions and spirit haunt us and that album rings true. Are either P.S. or Sgt. P. still musically or socially relevant? Did it change the face of popular music? Sure they did for a time, but that sound faded rather quickly as other fads in rock over took them.

You can make a case for Sgt. Pepper's but it's relevance today is questionable. I don't know... Perhaps I'm just more of an urban protest song lover but Marvin's words combined with the mastery of Motown's Funk Brothers has always made that album my personal greatest and I'm pleased to see it rated highly.... but when I go to see other bands I can trace what I see and hear back to Jordan, Berry, Brown and other's... but I don't hear much I can trace back to Pet Sounds or Sgt. Peppers. Lest you think I'm "hatin" on either group... I own much of both Brian Wilson and Lenon and McCartney's works... I just don't think they invented the wheel that's all.

Da Worfster

[Dusty Chalk]

Okay, after some additional review, I gotta say that I hate this list:

No Yes
No Rush
No Genesis
One Jethro Tull
(noticing a distinct anti-prog slant to this)
No Kate Bush
No Talk Talk
No Animals by Pink Floyd
One Kraftwerk album
very little electronica at all

And whoever heard of that Peter Wolf album? I'm not saying it doesn't deserve to be on the list, I'm just saying no-one's heard it.

And White Stripes' Elephant is definitely premature, as are a couple of other recent releases on that list.

I'm just saying it stinks of inbreeding (I.E. a small group of friends listening to more or less the same music), and isn't representative of the world's opinion that it pretends to be.

[bobsticks]

I'm kind of hoping that Rolling Stone will come out with a new list pretty soon...

[Swish]

I'm kind of hoping that Rolling Stone will come out with a new list pretty soon...

...calls it a day and goes away for good. That was fun though, wasn't it?

[bobsticks]

...calls it a day and goes away for good. That was fun though, wasn't it?

It was fun.

I'm trying to remember when RS was actually relevant. From both a musical/cultural and political point of view I think it's been dead and unburied for quite a while.

It's been interesting to watch Rolling Stone try to reinvent itself since the time of this thread. The pendulum has swung from flogging ancient and irrelevant acts to a kind of hack promotion of the worst of popular music and non-evidence based political diatribe.

Swerving from CC&N and E.J. Dionne to Lil' Wayne and Matt Tiabbi...I'm not sure what the bigger disservice is.

[Rael Imperial Aerosol Kid]

I'm kind of hoping that Rolling Stone will come out with a new list pretty soon...

Check your newstand, there's an updated "500 greatest albums of all time" on sale now. I have a copy here and havent compared it to the 2003 list to see what they took out. Additions seem to be, a few from Kanye, Vampire Weekend, sleater-kinney, my morning jacket, and a few others.

[Davey]

Check your newstand, there's an updated "500 greatest albums of all time" on sale now. I have a copy here and havent compared it to the 2003 list to see what they took out. Additions seem to be, a few from Kanye, Vampire Weekend, sleater-kinney, my morning jacket, and a few others.

Big discussion over at this other place ... Rolling Stone: 500 Greatest Albums of All Time - Updated in 2012 - SH Forums ... though I'd have trouble feigning enough interest to get me through more than a handful of posts about it.