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Thread: OT: Haiti

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    OT: Haiti

    Damn. Just... damn.

    Every time I see or read anything on this still-unfolding story, it takes a turn for the worse. The word "tragedy" isn't even covering it anymore.

    MSNBC has a comprehensive list of reputable relief organizations who are active in Haiti. All are clickable. Pick a winner (I'm partial to AmeriCares, but there are other good ones). If'n you can.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34835478...ti_earthquake/
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    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    I just heard on the radio that the Canadian Government has announced that they will match, dollar for dollar, donations to made to registered charitable groups for the Haitian disaster from Jan. 12 to Feb. 12, up to a maximum of $50 million.
    Last edited by ForeverAutumn; 01-14-2010 at 11:07 AM.

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    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Excellent post Mr MidFi. This will make it easy to help.

    Clicking on AmeriCares site I was pleased to see the high percentage of money actually going to those in need. They are very quick to respond with a thank you and all you need for a tax deductible contribution.
    Last edited by JohnMichael; 01-14-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    I just heard on the radio that the Canadian Government has announced that they will match, dollar for dollar, donations to made to registered charitable groups for the Haitian disaster from Jan. 12 to Feb. 12, up to a maximum of $50 million.

    Oh, Canada !

    Very good.

    Will the Iranians, Saudi, or North Koreans chip in ?

    And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCylinder
    Will the Iranians, Saudi, or North Koreans chip in ?

    And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?
    No kiddin'.

    Thanks for the reminder. I looked in my email inbox & MoveOn had a couple of suggestions for donors, I chose to send Oxfam what I could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte
    I chose to send Oxfam what I could.
    Good on you. They're a real good org.
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    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I am only working part time now but I sent a $50 donation through AmeriCares and I hope my fellow members who are able to can do the same. I am sure donations will be needed for a long time.
    JohnMichael
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCylinder
    And what about that a-hole in Venezuela ?
    Dude, probably. I mean he did offer us a ton of aid after Hurricane Katrina.

    Thanks for the links, MidFi.

    I don't know a ton about Haiti and its people, but I did pick up this from the library a few months ago:



    Anyone else heard it?

    ~Rae

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    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I am only working part time now but I sent a $50 donation through AmeriCares and I hope my fellow members who are able to can do the same. I am sure donations will be needed for a long time.
    Good for you John.

    I already make an automatic monthly contribution from my credit card to The Red Cross. They do such an incredible job every single day. But I did bump it up this month with an additional donation to the Haiti fund.

  10. #10
    nightflier
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    Ahem, a lot of these countries "pledge" b/m/zillions, but having worked with a couple of relief organizations, I can tell you that what is pledged is seldom received. It makes great news buzz, but when the bill needs to be paid, you can hear crickets chirping. Additionally, much of the government aid that is typically pledged is backed by corporate sponsorship and this has it's own set of strings attached.

    I'm a bit cynical because these things happened when the 2004 Tsunami hit. I don't know if this is what will happen in Haiti, so this is just a cautionary post. From what I'm seeing in the news, it looks like there is still considerable attention on Haiti, so I hope the focus remains. By the way, both Venezuella and Cuba where the first on the scene with assistance and people "on the ground" in Haiti. Interestingly, both these countries also offered assistance in the aftermath of Katrina and were promptly turned away. And as before... I just read a report that the Dominicans have closed their border.

    More to the point, the real misery happens well after the actual catastrophe hits, when hunger, disease and unrest set in, the media looses focus chasing the next big story and forgets about the suffering. Haiti is one of the poorest nations on earth with appalling inequality so my guess is that not all the aid will go to the right places. Let's hope we've learned a bit from our recent history.

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    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    More to the point, the real misery happens well after the actual catastrophe hits, when hunger, disease and unrest set in, the media looses focus chasing the next big story and forgets about the suffering. Haiti is one of the poorest nations on earth with appalling inequality so my guess is that not all the aid will go to the right places. Let's hope we've learned a bit from our recent history.
    Let's not confuse the media losing interest with the relief efforts ending. The Red Cross (and other charitible groups, I'm sure) is still working in the tsunami damaged areas.

    My niece is travelling to New Orleans in the spring with her school choir to perform at the Jazz Fest. One of the things that she will be doing there is working with Habitat for Humanity.

    Many of the agencies helping out in Haiti will be there for many years now.

    Yes, it's possible that not all the aid will go to the right places. But I hope that most of it will.

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    AmeriCares has been doing excellent work in Haiti since the 1980s, and continue to do so today.

    An interesting read about their efforts:
    http://www.americares.org/wherewewor...ical-care.html
    Mr. MidFi
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    What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.

    Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it. Why can't they ever pledge 100 million to feed our own starving people?

    Clearly I am not trying to take anything away from those who have contributed, including myself, but I always find myself questioning the situation that could have been prevented if we all cared before a tragedy happens. Everyone in the world know that these poor countries build massive buildings out of paper mache but does anyone care to help them before they are all crushed? The majority of deaths there could probably have been prevented if all these contributions were sent 20 years ago and not after the fact.

    Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.

    Sorry for the rant, but this crap always gets to me because the world only cares after it's too late!

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    Well, I look at it this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.

    Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it. Why can't they ever pledge 100 million to feed our own starving people?

    Clearly I am not trying to take anything away from those who have contributed, including myself, but I always find myself questioning the situation that could have been prevented if we all cared before a tragedy happens. Everyone in the world know that these poor countries build massive buildings out of paper mache but does anyone care to help them before they are all crushed? The majority of deaths there could probably have been prevented if all these contributions were sent 20 years ago and not after the fact.

    Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.

    Sorry for the rant, but this crap always gets to me because the world only cares after it's too late!
    'People starving' here in the US isn't a 'disaster', but a social problem. I would bet much more than $100 Million is spent on our homeless/starving people each year, but as in the biblical passage 'give a man fish and feed him for one day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime' . I have no problem helping someone down and out, but we need to help them get back on their feet so they can be self-sufficient. Haiti has way too many problems for us to solve their on-going struggles (ruthless dictators who steal all the money meant for its starving people) and we really don't want to end up running another country. Iraq is/was bad enough.

    As for some of your other comments, regarding birth control and what not, that's a slippery slope my friend. Third World countries will always have these issues until they are no longer a Third World Country.
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  15. #15
    nightflier
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    $100 million is a meaningless figure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    What boggles my mind is that we can always drum up money and send it after a disaster, but knowing the people there were starving and living in filth prompted nothing.
    Yep, but when we're busy spending $600-800B a year on catching a guy wandering the caves of Tora-bora with a dialysis machine, it makes you wonder where our priorities really lie. Would $1B of that budget really be missed if we decided to give it to the starving poor in Haiti, or our own Indian reservations for that matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Also, how can the US government pledge 100 million dollars it clearly does not have, unless they will tax us to pay for it.
    Actually, that figure includes an estimate of the donations that you and millions of other Americans have already made as well as corporate sponsorships. These corporate "gifts," are typically for goods and services, not cash, that they have "left over" in surplus warehouses and that these companies will get handsome tax write-offs for. But they also come with strings attached, in that the Haitians will now need to drink Aquafina rather than getting money to build their own water treatment plant. They will be getting oil from Texaco rather than Citgo, even though it will cost them twice as much. Likewise, medicines will be from Pfizer instead of a generic company, Police forces will be from private security firms such as All Pro Legal Investigations out of Florida, rather than their own, and computers will be from HP instead of Hyundai. The list goes on.

    If you really want to know how this system works, you should pick up a copy of Confessions of an Economic Hitman, where the author goes into quite a bit of detail on how this happens. Of particular interest is the part where Perkins describes at what point these economic hitmen are sent in. You guessed it: right after a "disaster" and if one does not occur, it is "created." The book has been attacked by a number of people for having some incorrect details and sources, but that does not detract from the overall message, which is quite revolting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Also, I guess that the people there are mostly catholic so pumping out babies they can't afford is the norm since birth control is so taboo. It's about time people start realizing that Sex leads to Children and some form of birth control should be tought to these poor countries as we convert them to Christianity and cram our western ways down their throats.
    Wow, OK, but for the sake of argument, let's address the biggest factor in this issue: safe and fair access to reproductive health services. The truth is that the largest source of funding for these services had traditionally come from the US, but over the last 20 years, this has been curtailed considerably. Most recently, the fact that these services did not have abstinence as a primary focus and did not include a religious component, was used repeatedly as a reason for cutting funding. Whether that was the reason or not, the fact is that these services are now severely underfunded. Finally, of whatever funds remained, there is no telling how much was siphoned off by the Haitian elite. My wife has worked with Doctors w/o Borders, and she can tell you some stories.

    Politics aside, I am actually quite amazed at the similarities between the aftermath of this disaster and the horrible events that followed Katrina. Racism especially, is playing a much larger role in these events, and it is a travesty of our civilization that in the face of so much suffering we still can't get past our own petty prejudices.

    More to the point, one thing that has puzzled me for some time, is the US's heavy-handed approach to anything related to Haiti. What is it about this poorest of nations that requires our government to be so disparagingly cruel and indifferent, a political/military position quite unlike that which we have towards any other Caribbean nation? What's going on today, is the same thing that's been happening for decades - I distinctly remember the fall of Baby Doc and his Tonton Macoutes - we "rescued" the whole lot of them - Duvalier robbed and abused his own people in ways that would make Stalin blush, and now he's living in Southern France like honored royalty. In contrast, Aristide was the only democratically elected president of Haiti ever, and we kidnapped him and placed him under house arrest in South Africa - what did he do that warranted that? You tell me.

    Maybe the real question here is why do we continue to abuse Haiti unlike any other nation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Yep, but when we're busy spending $600-800B a year on catching a guy wandering the caves of Tora-bora with a dialysis machine, it makes you wonder where our priorities really lie. Would $1B of that budget really be missed if we decided to give it to the starving poor in Haiti, or our own Indian reservations for that matter?
    Yeah, that's more of what I am talking about. We could have been helping poorer nations learn to build a little better so this does not keep happening. If we helped people build things right in the first place, it would be a whole lot cheaper than rebuilding later after events like this.

    I have wanted for years to start a campaign to have everyone in the world give up Fireworks for 1 year. Yeah I know the MFGs need to stay in business so that could be worked out.

    Do you realize just how much money is wasted on fireworks every year just so the Have's can oooh and ahhh over it. So while we all sit comfy with our drinks and stupid hats, people all over the world are dropping dead of hunger, disease and disaster while we waste Billions on fireworks displays. Just the recent Sydney display could have fed the people of Haiti.

    It's a real shame this is what the human spirituality has come to. Where the F are peoples priorities anymore? I would much rather feed someone than piss money into the air.

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    Stainmaster Finch Platte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Do you realize just how much money is wasted on fireworks every year just so the Have's can oooh and ahhh over it.
    Just a minor quibble, but at least in my town, it's the Have-nots that get to see the fireworks. The city doesn't charge for it (not yet!), and it's held at a park where entry/parking is free.

    I really think that your attention (however well-intended) could be focused better elsewhere than fireworks.

    And hey, the Chinese invented fireworks, which led to rockets/NASA, which led to millions of dollars spent towards finding out if there's water on Mars! There's a boondoggle for you to rant over!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte
    Just a minor quibble, but at least in my town, it's the Have-nots that get to see the fireworks. The city doesn't charge for it (not yet!), and it's held at a park where entry/parking is free.

    I really think that your attention (however well-intended) could be focused better elsewhere than fireworks.

    And hey, the Chinese invented fireworks, which led to rockets/NASA, which led to millions of dollars spent towards finding out if there's water on Mars! There's a boondoggle for you to rant over!
    By Have's, I meant all the countries that have fireworks, where the have nots have nothing.

    Fireworks is just one example of wasted money that could be better spent and not have any adverse affect on the people who did not get to see them for a year, unless they suffer from Fireworks Withdraw.

    Your right, who cares if there is/was water on mars, nobody is going to be living there. That and all the other things governments waste money on instead of things that really matter.

  19. #19
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Every cent counts. Give up buying music and gear for a year and donate the money you save to charity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Every cent counts. Give up buying music and gear for a year and donate the money you save to charity.
    I do both. But, I actually only buy about 3 CDs a year and gear only when it breaks. I probably donate much more than I spend on Audio hobbies.

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    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    I do both. But, I actually only buy about 3 CDs a year and gear only when it breaks. I probably donate much more than I spend on Audio hobbies.
    And I'm willing to bet that both of our countries provide more support to third world countries than they spend on fireworks.

    It's not that I think that your idea is a bad one. I'm just not sure that the money would get to where it's supposed to go. I think that the bigger issue is the corrupt governments who run many of these third world countries. Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    And I'm willing to bet that both of our countries provide more support to third world countries than they spend on fireworks.

    It's not that I think that your idea is a bad one. I'm just not sure that the money would get to where it's supposed to go. I think that the bigger issue is the corrupt governments who run many of these third world countries. Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?
    We are doing it now right? What is the difference except for the fact that we have to help 200,000 less people now that before.

    Whether we help other countries or our own, we waste way too much money on meaningless things like Fireworks.

    Sure like Finch said, it's usually free.....to the eyes of the mis-informed. The towns or cities then have to subsidize it as well as pay out a bunch of overtime to the cops, the cleanup crews and so on. So now what you thought was free is the reason your taxes just got raised or your city is in a huge deficit, like most city budgets already are.
    Last edited by Hyfi; 01-20-2010 at 11:13 AM.

  23. #23
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Sure like Finch said, it's usually free.....to the eyes of the stupid.
    Hey Finchy, I think that Hyfi just called you stupid!

    I don't have time for this discussion right now. I shouldn't have started. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Hey Finchy, I think that Hyfi just called you stupid!

    I don't have time for this discussion right now. I shouldn't have started. Sorry.
    but my post says mis-informed

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    Stainmaster Finch Platte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    but my post says mis-informed
    Lol.

    But anyhoo, I don't think taking away entertainment is the answer. When do you stop?

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