OT: Haiti

[nightflier]

Why should we give up anything to pad the pockets of corrupt politicians who don't give a rat's ass about helping the people that they govern?

Ahem, that applies to politicians in Haiti as much as to politicians in Canada, the US, or any other Western nation, no? I doubt Tim Geithner is very different from any other corrupt Haitian politician (Jocelyne Fethiere?), except maybe that his corruption is proportionally greater on account of our larger economy. Maybe that makes him an even bigger crook.

[ForeverAutumn]

Ahem, that applies to politicians in Haiti as much as to politicians in Canada, the US, or any other Western nation, no?

No.

Transparency International rates countries each year on perceived levels of government corruption. Where zero is the worst and 10 is the best, in 2009 Haiti ranked a 1.8. Out of 180 countries they were number 168. 180 (Somalia) was the percieved the most corrupt. Number 1 (perceived the least corrupt) is New Zealand with a rating of 9.4.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...cpi_2009_table

The Red Cross does a similar survey. They ranked Haiti as number 155 out of 159 countries.

I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

[Swish]

No.

Transparency International rates countries each year on perceived levels of government corruption. Where zero is the worst and 10 is the best, in 2009 Haiti ranked a 1.8. Out of 180 countries they were number 168. 180 (Somalia) was the percieved the most corrupt. Number 1 (perceived the least corrupt) is New Zealand with a rating of 9.4.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...cpi_2009_table

The Red Cross does a similar survey. They ranked Haiti as number 155 out of 159 countries.

I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

Donating money to the Red Cross is something that we've done in the past because we know it won't be pilfered by corrupt dictators.

[Auricauricle]

This is just terrible...beyond anything I can imagine....The first quake was a catastrophe. The second one: biblical. Good for you guys to fight the good fight.

[Mr MidFi]

...and sometimes it can seem like it's a bottomless pit of despair over there. And elsewhere. But each small candle lights a corner of the gloom. And every drop of water fills the well, eventually.

Ya does what ya can, man.

[nightflier]

I'm not suggesting that both of our countries don't have corrupt policiticians. I know they do. It's a proven fact. But we don't live in virtual poverty without electricity and clean water because our Governments don't allow us to have the necessities of life.

I don't believe that you can compare the political problems in the western world with the corruption that exists in the third world.

Not to compare, but there are many places in this country where there is no clean water or electricity. Just take a peek at some of our infamous Indian reservations. Even in the inner city where there is water, in some places you wouldn't want to drink it.

Haiti is no picknick, but my point is that human nature is what it is. If Geithner was Minister of Commerce in Haiti, he'd be just as corrupt. Likewise if whoever is the Haitian Minister of Commerce where in Geithner's shoes he'd do about the same too, as much as he could get away with here.

Additionally, that there is a tad more transparency here and in Canada, does not change the fact that the scale of the corruption is much greater. Geithner has made his friends so incredibly more rich, if you add all that up, that it would equal many times the GNP of several Haitis. The simple fact is that the disparity between Geithner's friends and the poorest people in the US, is greater than in any other country in the world in the history of mankind and most certainly an order of magnitude greater than the disparity between the rich and poor in Haiti. This inequality is perverse to the extreme. Surely we can agree that if just the CEO of oh, I dunno, AIG, was made to pay back the millions he robbed from the US tax payers, that this amount could save thousands of lives in Haiti, even now. Personally, I think that would not be a bad trade-off.

Today I read that they are amputating legs and arms from children w/o anesthesia. I can't possibly imagine what that must be like.

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm not well educated enough on the topic of corrupt governments or Tim Geithner to respond. In fact, I had to google the name after reading your original post because I didn't know who he was. But I think what it comes down to is the difference between corrupt politicians and corrupt governments.

When a politician is corrupt, you hope that he or she will be caught and brought to justice. Both of our countries have a stong justice system and Constitution to guide us. But who do you turn to when the entire government is corrupt? When the justice system is not just and the Constitution is not exercised?

But we're getting way off topic here. My original point was that I didn't want to give up anything to pad the pockets of the corrupt. I would, however, gladly make sacrifices to help poor nations if I knew that the money was going to the right places.

Surely we can agree that if just the CEO of oh, I dunno, AIG, was made to pay back the millions he robbed from the US tax payers, that this amount could save thousands of lives in Haiti, even now. Personally, I think that would not be a bad trade-off.

Yes. We can certainly agree on that.

[nightflier]

My original point was that I didn't want to give up anything to pad the pockets of the corrupt. I would, however, gladly make sacrifices to help poor nations if I knew that the money was going to the right places.

A lot of charities have been hurt by the current economy and the popular perception that charities don't use the money wisely. The fact is that most charities do use the money well, and this isn't just the big names out there. One of the charities I support is Doctors w/o Borders, who are there now, on the ground. What I think is key is that they bring skilled people to troubled areas, rather than money that can be siphoned off by corrupt people. They also put pressure on local governments to get the medicines and supplies to the places they will be, so they do help curb corruption that way.

And as someone else said, every little drop does eventually fill the well.

[Stone]

We donated a bunch of clothes through some mission, because word is the Haitians are wearing clothes for 2-3 days, then trashing or burning them because there is no way to wash the clothes. Hopefully, the stuff will get down there soon.

[ForeverAutumn]

A lot of charities have been hurt by the current economy and the popular perception that charities don't use the money wisely. The fact is that most charities do use the money well, and this isn't just the big names out there. One of the charities I support is Doctors w/o Borders, who are there now, on the ground. What I think is key is that they bring skilled people to troubled areas, rather than money that can be siphoned off by corrupt people. They also put pressure on local governments to get the medicines and supplies to the places they will be, so they do help curb corruption that way.

And as someone else said, every little drop does eventually fill the well.

Agreed, I donate on a monthly basis to The Red Cross general fund and then as needed when a tragedy like this strikes. I like The Red Cross because they work directly with the people to help the people. And they'll stay in the region for as long as their assistance is needed. They are still present in regions hit by the Tsunami several years ago.

We donated a bunch of clothes through some mission, because word is the Haitians are wearing clothes for 2-3 days, then trashing or burning them because there is no way to wash the clothes. Hopefully, the stuff will get down there soon.

That's a great idea!

[JohnMichael]

Agreed, I donate on a monthly basis to The Red Cross general fund and then as needed when a tragedy like this strikes. I like The Red Cross because they work directly with the people to help the people. And they'll stay in the region for as long as their assistance is needed. They are still present in regions hit by the Tsunami several years ago.



That's a great idea!

Donating clothes is a great ideas but mine might be a little large for a malnourished country. The Red Cross now has a text message system where by texting them you donate about $10 and it appears on your cell phone bill. That way you can defer your donation until the next bill.