Off Topic

[-Jar-]

The bigger concern is that Russia, China and Brazil (and Iran) were meeting without inviting the United States or our allies. They'd love to see the dollar go down in flames. Think things are bad now?

[Mr MidFi]

I for one think the Chinese will whack that mole before we or our European friends will have to. After all, we're their #1 customer and a Nuke from over yonder hitting our shores is just going to look like a general "Asian" attack, which certainly doesn't help the Chinese.

See, this is kind of where I was going with my previous post. A policy that assumes we (that is, the U.S.) will be able to project our considerable power into every corner of the globe and thwart the evil nuclear threat wherever and whenever it rears its head... forever and ever, amen... is doomed to fail eventually.

The only sensible solution is, as you suggest, an interconnected global alliance of interests among the leading powers. True, the U.S. and China make strange bedfellows, at least for now. But no one wants to see a mushroom cloud. It would be very bad for business.

FA: Someone will have to deal with Kim the same way Hussien was dealt with.

No. This is a very different situation, for several key reasons.

1. Kim has actual nuclear weapons and actual missiles, not vague rumors of 'nuclear development program activity' or some such.

2. With or without nukes, the NKs are poised to obliterate Seoul, a city of 10 million, within the first minutes of a shooting war. Or, ahem, 'regime change'. Or whatever we're calling it.

3. The entire nation of NK has been brainwashed to revere Kim as a living god, moreso than any other nation in modern history. Moreso than Stalin or Hitler in their respective countries. And certainly more than Saddam. The people live in abject poverty and under unprecedented mind control. All they have is their love of the Dear Leader. The level of trauma to their collective national psyche would be inconceivable to most western minds.

And...just who is this "someone" you had in mind, anyway? The Canadian Air Force?

[MasterCylinder]

1. Kim has actual nuclear weapons and actual missiles, not vague rumors of 'nuclear development program activity' or some such.

2. With or without nukes, the NKs are poised to obliterate Seoul, a city of 10 million, within the first minutes of a shooting war. Or, ahem, 'regime change'. Or whatever we're calling it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding the two points above.............we have some degree of certainty about the intelligence associated with NK nuclear capabilities...........unfortunately, the West does not have as much knowledge about NK's capabilities with chemical and biological weapons...............I have seen quotes from the CIA that suggest these threats are actually greater.
=======================

3. The entire nation of NK has been brainwashed to revere Kim as a living god, moreso than any other nation in modern history. Moreso than Stalin or Hitler in their respective countries. And certainly more than Saddam. The people live in abject poverty and under unprecedented mind control. All they have is their love of the Dear Leader. The level of trauma to their collective national psyche would be inconceivable to most western minds.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Very dangerous............and I'm tellin' ya'................the dude is a drunk !

[Luvin Da Blues]

And...just who is this "someone" you had in mind, anyway? The Canadian Air Force?

Sorry, can't help out this week. Our Cessna is in for servicing. Maybe next week, I'll keep you informed.

[Troy]

I think he's just a little bit ronery.

[thekid]

You have to be worried about a country that regularly starves/abuses its people to keep its military dictatorship in luxury and arms. Kim and the Generals could see this an "End of Days" scenerio and decide to go out in a nuclear blaze of glory. I am not sure the Chinese even has much of voice in NK anymore. With the current economic downturn it seems the world is tired of being held up for food everytime Kim's belly needs filling. This may be a game of chicken that ends badly for anyone within range of NK's missle's. I hope that someone in power over in NK sees this situation for what it is and stages a coup (maybe with a little cash and encouragement by the Chinese....) gets this headed down a different path.

[nightflier]

Everyone's talking about North Korea, but I think the more pressing issue is in Iran right now. And it's funny how little news coverage that's getting - I've read that it's another Tiananmen in the making, except there's religious extremists on one side. Even Americans have been arrested and beaten. Then again, there's no nukes in Iran so I guess it's not that important....

[ForeverAutumn]

And...just who is this "someone" you had in mind, anyway? The Canadian Air Force?

No way man. We're not going in there. Have you seen that guy? He's crazy!

[bobsticks]

I think he's just a little bit ronery.

Thus far, POY baybay...Post of the Year...

Team America - I'm So Ronery
Uploaded by Videogeezer - Watch more comedy videos and sitcoms.

[MasterCylinder]

That video is priceless...............the only thing missing was the half-gal of STOLI.

[Auricauricle]

Sniff! Poor, little disturbed cretin! Sniff! He's just...misunderstood!

[Mr MidFi]

Everyone's talking about North Korea, but I think the more pressing issue is in Iran right now. And it's funny how little news coverage that's getting - I've read that it's another Tiananmen in the making, except there's religious extremists on one side. Even Americans have been arrested and beaten. Then again, there's no nukes in Iran so I guess it's not that important....

I agree 100%...the story is only now starting to get traction in a lot of the major daily papers. But those of us following the story on news-oriented online communities have been on top of this thing since the elections. No one knows how that thing is going to play out, at this point.

[bobsticks]

And...just who is this "someone" you had in mind, anyway? The Canadian Air Force?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Furlong

[kexodusc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Furlong

Damn....I can't hit a moose at 50 yards!!!

[bobsticks]

Damn....I can't hit a moose at 50 yards!!!

That's what I'm sayin'!

Chute ol' boy in on top of some bleak factory about a mile outta wherever that lil' Elvis-coiffed muppet is doing his next wooden soldier, goose-step coronation and deep-six the SOB. We need to back in the game.

Hey, here's a completely unrelated bit of propaganda. Flame as you will...

[GMichael]

Damn....I can't hit a moose at 50 yards!!!

You can throw a snow ball 50 yards?

[nightflier]

OK, I'll light the flame-thrower - everybody duck!

Sticks, where did you find that nonsense? Gilchrist's website? Pat Buchanan's? Coulter's? Not only are the numbers way off, but it over-simplifies so many key issues to make the whole message completely flawed. There was also some evangelical dialog that was trimmed from the end of the clip - 'wonder what that was about... Even if the US muslim population does grow to 9M (a number that's pretty far off, IMO), that's still what? 3%? I'm pretty sure we'll have more Mormons than that and probably sooner, too. Perhaps we should be more scared of them, LOL.

Long-story-short, this is alarmist fear-mongering.

[3LB]

A muslim world...in 30-40 years?

they'll like the warmer temperatures then

[Auricauricle]

Come on guys, get some perspective! Our faithful and honorable governor has returned!

Iran? Korea? Iraq?

Right....

[bobsticks]

...and so it escalates: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_nuclear

[bobsticks]

OK, I'll light the flame-thrower - everybody duck!

Sticks, where did you find that nonsense? Gilchrist's website? Pat Buchanan's? Coulter's? Not only are the numbers way off, but it over-simplifies so many key issues to make the whole message completely flawed. There was also some evangelical dialog that was trimmed from the end of the clip - 'wonder what that was about... Even if the US muslim population does grow to 9M (a number that's pretty far off, IMO), that's still what? 3%? I'm pretty sure we'll have more Mormons than that and probably sooner, too. Perhaps we should be more scared of them, LOL.

Long-story-short, this is alarmist fear-mongering.

I'd be interested to see your sources. That said, I'm ready to recognise the disparities in figures regarding the United States though one must take into account the mean age during the number breakdown.
There is, however, quite a bit of compelling evidence that Europe has a significant problem, similar to the one that we have with illegals from south of the border and the rampant usage of public funds.

[nightflier]

similar to the one that we have with illegals from south of the border and the rampant usage of public funds.

Isn't that a loaded statement, too? Kind of like Reagan's non-existent "Welfare Queen" and the "fits the description" black male?

Ask yourself this: do these "illegals" represent more of a problem than a solution to our vaulted way of life? And isn't their legal status questionable considering what we've done to their countries in the past 100 or so years? Actually, didn't we steal California from their forefathers? That's prime real estate, my friend. But to bring it back to today, I seriously doubt that their "rampant use of public funds" even comes close to what they contribute to our economy by doing jobs that neither your nor I would want to do, and living a lifestyle below the poverty line that few other native-born Americans would choose? Heck, even using the word "American" is filled with historical controversy.

That's something our pale-faced brothers across the pond can't seem to come to terms with (despite their supposed higher level of education): that Muslims culture in Europe is a direct consequence of pillage and plunder for some 1000+ years. Muslim immigrants will be the first to list the long history of injustices they have endured at the hands of Europeans from the Crusades to mercantilism to Suez to Mosadeq and to the plunder of Iraq today.

Think of our way of life as the way whites in South Africa carried on until the ANC took power. Everyone knew that the masses of the black oppressed would eventually overwhelm the white settlements. No matter how cruel the repression, history has shown time and again that no amount of violence can indefinitely contain a growing population arrayed against it. Perhaps Botha and co., saw the writing on the wall and decided to make nice or loose everything before that would come to pass, and Mandela & co. agreed not to slaughter every last one of them in exchange. What troubles me is the continued unrest and lawlessness that is now the norm in the country.

That video clip is of the type used to maintain an apartheid type system, with the requisite fear-mongering and exaggerated numbers to galvanize the most hateful groups among us. But it does nothing to bring us to a peaceful transition of power, one that must inevitably occur. The alternative is mutually assured destruction, and that's the kind of brinksmanship we really don't want to revisit.... Well unless you're the nut-job who's bound and determined to run North Korea back into the stone-age. We can only hope that the rest of the world leaders have more wisdom than that.

[3LB]

I could care less what anyone's religion, sexual orientation, or favorite cereal is...as long as they don't make it my business. I don't care if I'm surrounded by Muslims, as long as it doesn't bother them that I'm not...and there's the rub...with anything.

Its extremism in any form that ruins things. Freedom of religion isn't my right to tell you what to think and feel but the zealots think its their sworn duty to do just that...and that includes all religions and extremist groups. Try the live and let live approach with a Skinhead.

But sooner or later you got no choice and are forced to pick a side. I'd look stupid in a turban.

[nightflier]

Try the live and let live approach with a Skinhead.

When I read that, it reminded me immediately of American History X, where Ed Norton's character was forced to confront the hypocrisy of his own racist identity when he was in prison. I've actually read that in Northern European countries they force convicted gang members from different sides to live together and work out a living arrangement without the influence of the larger racist group.

I don't know how successful these programs are, but it's obvious that separatism, whatever the basis, is really the antithesis of society. Even the all-one ethnic/cultural/religious utopias that some of these groups fantasize about, will eventually identify a new scapegoat from their own numbers and fragment further. Eventually they will fragment to the point of not even being able to survive as an isolated group.

Ironically, nature has it's own remedy for this aberrant system in that a genetically concentrated population ultimately develops deformities, still births, and over time, kills itself off. As much as some people will hate to realize it, we all will need to live in a diverse society, yes even those Branch Davidians reading this post holed up in a compound bunker somewhere in the Midwest, lol.

OK, I have to go check the motion alarms around my compound now...