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  1. #1
    Indifferentist Slosh's Avatar
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    Lookie what I found . . .

    . . . bit-torrent gold!

    This is an outstanding nearly two hour long Wilco concert. The band is top form; tight enough that you know instantly what you're listening to, but yet without sapping away that spontaneity that makes seeing a truly great live band special. The recording's sonics are very good as well, made all the more impressive being that this isn't a soundboard patch. On a decent stereo you get a nice sense of the venue. Oh, and just look at this setlist:

    Handshake Drugs
    Impossible Germany (new song! )
    I Am Trying To Break Your Heart
    Muzzle Of Bees
    A Shot In The Arm
    At Least That's What You Said
    Jesus, Etc.
    Walken
    Airline To Heaven
    Forget The Flowers
    Hummingbird
    Theologians
    War On War
    Kingpin
    I'm The Man Who Loves You
    Misunderstood
    Wishful Thinking
    Spiders (Kidsmoke)
    Heavy Metal Drummer
    The Late Greats
    Monday

    Too good not to share so here ya go (and it won't take you two days to download)[Code]http://www.mediafire.com/?0ytamwzyymz[/Code]
    (FLAC 637.49MB)
    Originally Posted by Troy: She has that same kind of cleft-pallet, slightly retarded way of singing that so many other people find endearing.


  2. #2
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Hate be a party pooer....but

    can you give me a reason why I shouldnt report you to the RIAA?

    -JRA

  3. #3
    Indifferentist Slosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    can you give me a reason why I shouldnt report you to the RIAA?

    -JRA
    Because this was seeded with the band's permission. I'm just making it easier for people to get ahold of.

    But I won't do this kind of thing any longer if that'll make you happy.
    Originally Posted by Troy: She has that same kind of cleft-pallet, slightly retarded way of singing that so many other people find endearing.


  4. #4
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slosh
    Because this was seeded with the band's permission. I'm just making it easier for people to get ahold of..
    That I'm completely cool with(why wouldn't I be?). It's just that F@#king torrent crap allows people to steal 120 ablums recorded by Miles Davis with ONE click of a button. How ****ty is that?

    But I won't do this kind of thing any longer if that'll make you happy.
    If bands are authorizing their music for free to acquire exposure, then I dont think you need me to tell you what to do. You are just acting as a member of their StreetTeam. You are not selling anything, so I dont think anyone is going to object you.

    I didnt check to see if that was actually authorized by the band. All I saw was the word Bit Torrent. So, I did jump the gun. But I dont think you can blame me for the things I've seen, and their convieniet rational of the members. Not everyone, but i'm not blind. We are human though. People will claim to be rightous, religious, or whatever but steal millions for the sole benefits of their own. Dont get me wrong, I do have my own dillusion, I'm an atheist(or whatever). Take these comments as anyways as you like. I can't control that.
    The last thing I would ever wanna do is to enforce my idea and expect everyone to live the way I do. I dont need to do that to preserve my core-value. All I wanted to do is bringup that topic.

    So, all in all. I'm terribly sorry if I had upset you.

    -JRA

  5. #5
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    can you give me a reason why I shouldnt report you to the RIAA?

    -JRA
    Unofficial live recordings are technically not copyrighted but, in reality, it's a huge grey area. Grey enough that the RIAA wouldn't bother with it unless you were turning out thousands of copies of something (like some kid in Ireland did with Jewel). And if they DID decide to nail you, a taper-friendly band like Wilco would have no influence in the case whatsover. By allowing taping, bands and artists are only saying their lawyers won't nail you.

    Funny thing, though. Torrent sites like Dime get popped and have to change names and move around every few years even though they forbid copyrighted material. At the same time, live CDR trading sites remained untouched. Something about electronic distribution gets the RIAA all freaky.

  6. #6
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    At the same time, live CDR trading sites remained untouched.
    Well, we all know the reason for that.

  7. #7
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Great find for a lot of people. I was never, nor will I ever be the biggest Wilco fan but for the ones that are it has the potential to be a rewarding experience. Bootleg recordings offer the closest thing to live possible short of actually standing in the crowd. Of course once the show's over you're SOL. Good recordings have a wow factor that some people spend thousands on trying to capture with commercial recordings. I always search my sites daily for new recordings and I find something good almost every day and something awesome at least once a week.

    Regards,
    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  8. #8
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Well, we all know the reason for that.
    I don't. It's uncopyrighted live material whether it's through the mail or through the modem. A bootlegger could just as easily burn a thousand copies of one cdr and sell them on the black market. It doesn't necessarily have to be from a torrent, although everything gets torrented these days.

    The range of responses to the new widespread popularity of these things is amusing. Most jam bands are cool with taping, trading & downloading but some of them don't want their sounboards traded, like Warren Haynes. The Allman Bros are against the whole thing altogether. The Grateful Dead were legendary for encouraging taping & trading. At one point, they even had consoles you could plug into at the gig to get the soundboard. But they don't want anybody downloading their soundboards from the web, just audience recordings. Go figure. And then there's Yes who say it's okay to trade their live recordings because they see concerts as promotion but they discourage taping at their concerts! Huh? Then there's the Tom Tom Club who encourage audience taping but discourage soundboards because they think soundboards suck.

    I don't care what they think, my collection will continue to grow.

  9. #9
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Well for instance, Robert Fripp doesnt ever want their stuff bootlegged for the poor SQ. Of course I didnt hear this from him(He's impossible to approach). If it's not copyrighted, dont see how they could enforce any penalties. Even at some shows announcers will say

    "This show is being recorded. Any unauthorized recording made by........"

    That too me is saying, well if the venue is not being recorded by artists, it's okay.

    I do own some BLs of KingCrimson. Yes that makes me a hypocrite Fripp has a right to take me to a court. But, as for others I dont think USA's legal system can do anything about it. For that there is no money involved. The way I see it, why would anyone/firms waste their costly time trying to enforce any sites that exchange BLs.

    Of course everything I said above wouldnt make any sense, if all the live musics are copyrighted somehow.

    -JRA

  10. #10
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Gee, could we maybe just agree to disagree or even argue the point without threatening legal action against other forum members?
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  11. #11
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Gee, could we maybe just agree to disagree or even argue the point without threatening legal action against other forum members?
    Hey Bobby,

    If you actually thought I was going to turn Slosh in, then I was misunderstood. All I wanted to do was talk about respecting artists' work.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Well for instance, Robert Fripp doesnt ever want their stuff bootlegged for the poor SQ.
    That's a commonly cited reason but I think it's a control issue that artists & musicians need to re-think. First of all, in this high-tech environment they have no control over it. Second, how many people are going to be turned off by a band because they heard a crappy audience recording? I mean, really, what kind of numbers are we talking here? The way I see it, the more bootleg recordings that are out there the better chance someone will hear a good one. And that's an advertisement for a live performance where most bands make their money these days. The jam bands have got this figured out, clueing in to the Grateful Dead model a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Fripp has a right to take me to a court.
    Don't bet on it. It's mostly an empty threat. Sure, if you're the Korean mob or Hezbollah in South America printing thousands of officially copyrighted studio recordings then they'd love to nail ya. In fact, the Hez used to sell coke out of the Tri-Corners region before they realized they could make more money printing cd's. But if you're caught taping at a concert the security guards will just boot you out if it's against house rules. How can the band have a copyright on something that isn't finished taping yet? They don't. As for Fripp, I think the members of the KC Collector's Club should take him to court for soaking them with high-priced "limited edition" discs then selling those same discs on the open market once the collectors were saturated. I just refuse to be taught ethics by these people. And frankly, the RIAA never did anything for them anyway. Pete Townshend says he has to pay the RIAA $200 just to play his own songs on the Who tour.

  13. #13
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Talking about BLs

    Quote Originally Posted by BradH
    That's a commonly cited reason but I think it's a control issue that artists & musicians need to re-think.
    I agree with you. SQ is just an excuse for some of artists. There are alot of artists who should remain as studio artists. If they are renowned musicians, they should have nothing to fear, their fans know how good they are.
    I've heard alot of the Deads BLs. They just reminded me why I dont listen to their music(except for the American Beauty).

    And that's an advertisement for a live performance where most bands make their money these days.
    Exactly the same reason why I disppise illegal DLing. More of artists I love barely make money off of their so-called tours. I'm feel fortunate that they still come to Denver performing their guts out in front of 50 kids. And I'm talking about some the most succesful artists in their industry. But you are talking about mediocre groups such as Madonna, KISS, and the Stones(just my opinion). Call me selfish, all I want is to continue hearing new albums by artists I love.

    I hate Phish. Just saying..

    The jam bands have got this figured out.
    Of course, as you stated they are JamBands. I love their music live from time to time, but one of the criteria for being a JB is not to be offended when audience arent listening to their music. Their main purpose is to enhance the vibe for the bunch of octapus waving their arms. Dont get me started on Phish

    As for Fripp, I think the members of the KC Collector's Club should take him to court for soaking them with high-priced "limited edition" discs then selling those same discs on the open market once the collectors were saturated.
    What you said about their so-called limited edition discs is absolutely true. But that would never happen because their fans are the true definition of tools. I've never met a KC fan(especially in their 30s) who could admit their dislike of a certain album.

    Phish fans are even worst.


    Pete Townshend says he has to pay the RIAA $200 just to play his own songs on the Who tour.
    I can't really comment on that. That's just ridiculous, but that's how it is. I'm sure those songs are closely monitored for their best interest.
    As much as I hate Phish, I still believe that their studio music should be protected. Same rules apply, of course.

    -JRA

  14. #14
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Of course, as you stated they are JamBands. I love their music live from time to time, but one of the criteria for being a JB is not to be offended when audience arent listening to their music. Their main purpose is to enhance the vibe for the bunch of octapus waving their arms. Dont get me started on Phish
    I don't know much about Phish but if you check out Internet Archive you'll see a ton of bands that aren't jam oriented and they all sanction live taping. Most of those bands are obscure and obviously aren't pulling down Madonna/Stones amounts of money on tour. In fact, it's the bigger names that tend to have the most attitude about bootlegs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    What you said about their so-called limited edition discs is absolutely true. But that would never happen because their fans are the true definition of tools. I've never met a KC fan(especially in their 30s) who could admit their dislike of a certain album.
    Stick around. I don't know about the 30somethings but some of us old farts remember when prog rock was fun before it became a religion. I'm way tired of Bob Fripp and his left-brain, analytical, pompous bs theories. People who meet him say he can only talk about the business side of music. I love some of those 70's KC albums but his artistic fortune has always risen and fallen according to the musicians surrounding him. Now he's like the musical equivalent of an outside corporate consultant. Some people think he'll crack up someday but I suspect he'll just show up onstage at some gig with a PowerPoint presentation explaining what's wrong with the music industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    As much as I hate Phish, I still believe that their studio music should be protected. Same rules apply, of course.
    Copyrighted studio recordings are a whole different thing. I'm not happy about paying $16.00 for fifty cents worth of plastic (at most) so I buy 'em used most of the time. And that opens a whole other can of worms.

    Here's something else that hasn't been mentioned: studio sessions. Artists hate those things going out but it seems to me the only people who enjoy them are the hardcore fans. That's probably true of bootlegs in general. So, to get back to your original point, I don't see much of this downloading and trading of unoffical recordings as disrespecting the artist's work. Just the opposite. I've been saying for 25 yrs, the best live recordings are never officially released anyway.

  15. #15
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Well I'll say 80% of my LP collection were purchased used. That kinda goes against my "Same Rules Apply". Just like everyone else, I too alter my beliefs and turn'em into a shape that I can comfortably live with. Used music shoppers could be stimulating the economy, but as far as artists/asset holders see it they can careless.
    For the distribution of unofficial music, I dont know. Maybe promoters and venue has right to do whatever they pleased, but I dont see artists ever using them again on their tours.
    Youtube and others are great places for underexposed artists to be seen. I do see a potential for artists to sell more tickets that way. But as you stated only die hard fans will look for extra materials they do not "own".

    I have checcked the Internet Archives. I've seen alot of free recordings offered by the Artists. That's basically what Slosh posted, and I guess I soured him. Hey Slosh, my bad man.

    I've been saying for 25 yrs, the best live recordings are never officially released anyway.
    I do agree. They way I see it, artists play their best when they play however they feel like playing. For that same reason, I stopped playing piano. My university instructor never understood it. For that all we ever did was get into a weekly shouting match. After that it wasnt about music anymore.

    Regards,

    JRA

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