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  1. #1
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    itouch and comps

    I posted this in "Portable Audio" and got no replies. I should have known better than to stray outside RR : )

    Say I have an Ipod touch and a compilation file on my PC that I want to get into said Ipod as a whole "cd". So we're clear, this is a mix cd already in MP3 form, already on my computer and I want to move the whole thing - songs in order - over to my Ipod Touch. For the official record the comp in question in Nobody's most excellent 2009 quickie comp!

    How exactly does one accomplish this via itunes? Everything I do dumps a bunch of individual tracks on the thing. A playlist sucks since I have then go in and manually do everything. I also hate all of the clutter of having all the individual tracks scattered about the various menus.

    Random rant - $299 and no camera? really?

    I wish my Creative Zen Vision M was still alive : (


    Thanks,
    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  2. #2
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    To avoid playlists... the clutter is due to all the tracks having different artists and album names. What I would do is (in iTunes)

    1) (not essential) Duplicate the whole mix so you have two copies of everything

    2) Get info on all the tracks

    3) Rename the album for all to Nobody's Quicky Comp

    4) Rename the artist for all tracks to "Various"

    5) Port the renamed album to the iPod.

    Probably not the most elegant solution. But I'm not always elegant.

    dw

  3. #3
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Thanks, appreciate the info!

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  4. #4
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    A playlist sucks since I have then go in and manually do everything.
    It's not like you're washing the car or cleaning fish here man, c'mon! Make a playlist and drag and drop the songs into it. Then connect the iPod and drag and drop the playlist into it. The songs will automatically follow.

    it will take MUCH less time to create than it took for you to type that first message!

  5. #5
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    It's not like you're washing the car or cleaning fish here man, c'mon! Make a playlist and drag and drop the songs into it. Then connect the iPod and drag and drop the playlist into it. The songs will automatically follow.

    it will take MUCH less time to create than it took for you to type that first message!
    I dunno, I don't keep my whole life on my iPod, just select albums. And, Nobody's Megamix fills all the menus with a bazillion artists to sort through to find the albums I put on. I can go to playlists for the megamix, but it's the finding my other needles in the haystack that came with the megamix that is bothersome. Not that I'm complaining about the Megamix. I really like it. I just feel Jim's headaches...

  6. #6
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff
    I dunno, I don't keep my whole life on my iPod, just select albums. And, Nobody's Megamix fills all the menus with a bazillion artists to sort through to find the albums I put on. I can go to playlists for the megamix, but it's the finding my other needles in the haystack that came with the megamix that is bothersome. Not that I'm complaining about the Megamix. I really like it. I just feel Jim's headaches...
    Why drag over a 'bazillion' artists? Why not just drag over the songs you like?

    Why not make a playlist with those 15 songs you like and then just play that playlist?

    I really think you guys are complicating this way more than is needed.

  7. #7
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Why drag over a 'bazillion' artists? Why not just drag over the songs you like?

    Why not make a playlist with those 15 songs you like and then just play that playlist?

    I really think you guys are complicating this way more than is needed.
    It's not tidy! Seriously now when I open up my albums it looks like I have 25 albums that I don't really have and I'm sorry, that bothers me. I'd like to add a bunch of comps to this thing and so it's gonna be the same problem x 50.

    Apple spends a fortune putting out glitz. Is it really to much to ask to add a mix CD and expect it to play just like a Snog CD? How does something like this get overlooked? I just happened to google itouch +compilation and lo and behold I am not the only person with a problem with this (thanks for being a ally on this Nod!). For the record - none of those solutions really worked either. Then again, I can add a level to my MP3 player, so there's that : (

    jc
    Last edited by Jim Clark; 02-16-2010 at 12:30 PM.
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  8. #8
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    When I have this issue, I just import all the songs to iTunes and then change the album title of all the songs to something common. Just like Noddin suggested. What's not tidy about that?

    If you want to keep the original album title for reference later, copy and paste it into the notes section before you change it to the new title. This shouldn't take you more than 20 seconds per song...max.

  9. #9
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    It's not tidy! Seriously now when I open up my albums it looks like I have 25 albums that I don't really have and I'm sorry, that bothers me. I'd like to add a bunch of comps to this thing and so it's gonna be the same problem x 50.
    Not tidy? You're kidding, right?

    So your issue is that when you list by album in your iPod, the reality is that you only have one song from that album? This bothers you that much? Why don't you just buy/rip/install the whole album, then?

    Riddle me this Batman, do you install whole albums on your iPod even if you don't like all the songs? If you do, why, and if you don't, then how is that different? Those aren't complete albums either.

    But if you want to play that comp, why are you looking at "albums," anyway? A comp is not an album, it's a playlist comprised of songs from disparate albums. You should be looking at "playlists" for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Apple spends a fortune putting out glitz.
    Don't try and bait anyone with your anti-Apple sentiment. If you don't like their products don't buy them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Is it really to much to ask to add a mix CD and expect it to play just like a Snog CD? How does something like this get overlooked?
    It didn't get overlooked, you're just refusing to use it the way it's designed. If you use the playlist feature like you're supposed to for playing a mix of songs from different source albums, you won't have this problem. It's like putting your pants on backwards and then complaining how crappy the pants are because they don't fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    I just happened to google itouch +compilation and lo and behold I am not the only person with a problem with this (thanks for being a ally on this Nod!).
    Yeah, the world's filled with people that don't take the time to learn how to use their technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    For the record - none of those solutions really worked either.
    My solution works, you just seem to refuse to use it.

    Then again, you can always do as FA suggests and rename the album on all those songs to "Comp," but the problem there; should you ever decide to install/rip more songs from that album that one song came from someday, you'll find they won't all appear together. No, the correct answer is to make a playlist.

  10. #10
    Indifferentist Slosh's Avatar
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    I need a new iPod. I have an old 30GB and I'm having a hard time deciding what songs to get rid of anymore whenever I want to put new stuff on.

    The 64GB Touch is way too small so it looks like the 160GB Classic for me.

    I tried to find something other than iPod but no brand matches the HDD size and has gapless playback.

    My current iPod has always been buggy but since Apple is the only manufacturer that makes what I am looking for . . .
    Originally Posted by Troy: She has that same kind of cleft-pallet, slightly retarded way of singing that so many other people find endearing.


  11. #11
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Not tidy? You're kidding, right?

    So your issue is that when you list by album in your iPod, the reality is that you only have one song from that album? This bothers you that much? Why don't you just buy/rip/install the whole album, then?

    Riddle me this Batman, do you install whole albums on your iPod even if you don't like all the songs? If you do, why, and if you don't, then how is that different? Those aren't complete albums either.

    But if you want to play that comp, why are you looking at "albums," anyway? A comp is not an album, it's a playlist comprised of songs from disparate albums. You should be looking at "playlists" for that.



    Don't try and bait anyone with your anti-Apple sentiment. If you don't like their products don't buy them.



    It didn't get overlooked, you're just refusing to use it the way it's designed. If you use the playlist feature like you're supposed to for playing a mix of songs from different source albums, you won't have this problem. It's like putting your pants on backwards and then complaining how crappy the pants are because they don't fit.



    Yeah, the world's filled with people that don't take the time to learn how to use their technology.



    My solution works, you just seem to refuse to use it.

    Then again, you can always do as FA suggests and rename the album on all those songs to "Comp," but the problem there; should you ever decide to install/rip more songs from that album that one song came from someday, you'll find they won't all appear together. No, the correct answer is to make a playlist.
    Wow, didn't mean to get your bloomers in a bunch. to answer your questions more or less in order:

    Yes, I like things organized. Interesting you would ridicule this. I recall you showing off your designs for the cabinet for you LP collection. I would be absolutely stunned if you mixed in the 33's and 45's all together. Bet you lunch that you have them separated. I have no idea where your surprise would come from. I'll bet dinner that you have your work organized on your Mac in a way that works for you, and why shouldn't you? It might not work for me but wow, having the ability to do what works for you - amazing.

    Yes I put whole albums on my MP3 player. I put albums I like on my MP3 player, I listen to albums that I like on my CDP at home and in the car. don't recall the last time I pulled out an album to play that one song.

    Yes, I look at comps like albums. I have binders full of comps that I like to pull out and listen to in their entirety. If I want to listen to Nobody's Punk Rock comp I pull it out and put it into the CDR and hit play, just like any album I have on the shelf. Pretty simple and elegant. The difference comes when I want to put that on an itouch, it doesn't rip and sync like any other album although I FAIL to see any real reason why it can't be just as simple. It's not, obviously but you certainly haven't told me any reason why it CAN"T be that simple. Apple can do a lot of fancy things I have difficulty accepting that this presents an overwhelming engineering and developmental challenge for them. I realize that's the way it was designed but only a blindly allegiant fanboy is going to defend a product that isn't flexible enough to use in a way that people want.

    Let's put it this way Troy what is easier - ripping a cd and syncing the ipod or ripping a CD, creating a playlist, and then dragging and dropping the tracks you want in the order that you want them (assuming you want to keep the original order/flow, and I do!) and then syncing. I dunno, seems pretty obvious.

    And professor Troy - I am taking the time to learn it - hence the post. I've had this thing for all of about 36 hours and been able to spend about 2 hours getting stuff loaded on it. Sorry I haven't mastered it yet.

    jc
    Last edited by Jim Clark; 02-16-2010 at 05:00 PM.
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  12. #12
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Yes, I look at comps like albums.
    Jim, I understand what you're saying. But I think that your quote above is the crux of the problem. You look at comps like albums. But the thing is...they aren't.

    If you want to rip an album into iTunes it does exactly what you're asking. But a comp isn't an album. It's a collection of songs. And iTunes doesn't care that all the songs came off the same CDR. It's still not an album.

    Like any computer program, the data is only as good as the input. When you input a comp the data comes from many different albums through Gracenote or whatever, so that's how iTunes reads it. So unless the data on the comp was edited to read like an album, iTunes ain't gonna read it that way. And I don't see why it should. It's not an album just because you think it should be.

  13. #13
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Jim, I understand what you're saying. But I think that your quote above is the crux of the problem. You look at comps like albums. But the thing is...they aren't.

    If you want to rip an album into iTunes it does exactly what you're asking. But a comp isn't an album. It's a collection of songs. And iTunes doesn't care that all the songs came off the same CDR. It's still not an album.

    Like any computer program, the data is only as good as the input. When you input a comp the data comes from many different albums through Gracenote or whatever, so that's how iTunes reads it. So unless the data on the comp was edited to read like an album, iTunes ain't gonna read it that way. And I don't see why it should. It's not an album just because you think it should be.
    I of course get that, and it makes sense. I also get playlists, it makes great sense if I have a bunch of tunes on the drive and want to create a comp of my own on the fly to listen to. Great to have that ability.

    Clearly the functionality I want doesn't exist in itunes which was the only question (of substance) in the original post. We can do something similar (a work around) by taking a lot of extra time and steps and if that's the best this thing can do - fine, you don't know until you ask. Seems kind of silly though, doesn't it? Clearly three people in this thread alone would benefit from an easier method to accomplish this. It would be great if in the future we could click a box that said - compilation- that would keep the tracks grouped together in the order that they are ripped. Being able to call such compilation Davey's 2004 Holiday Sampler would be nice too. Perhaps someday.

    In the meantime, I guess I'll find out what happens when I try to import a soundtrack or some other commercially purchased comp. Not really expecting anything different.

    Thanks Autumn.

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  14. #14
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Wow, didn't mean to get your bloomers in a bunch.
    They're not. Sometimes I don't know my own strength, Jim. I'll try to tone it dowen.

    It's disappointing to me though that you blame the technology rather than your understanding of how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Yes, I like things organized. Interesting you would ridicule this. I recall you showing off your designs for the cabinet for you LP collection. I would be absolutely stunned if you mixed in the 33's and 45's all together. Bet you lunch that you have them separated. I have no idea where your surprise would come from. I'll bet dinner that you have your work organized on your Mac in a way that works for you, and why shouldn't you? It might not work for me but wow, having the ability to do what works for you - amazing.
    Right on all counts, so why do I think the iTunes methodolgy is tidy?

    Simply put, it is. It's totally logical.

    Think of your CD collection on the shelf, listed alphabetically, and each album by those artists is sub-filed by alpha too. Now someone hands you a comp with 10 songs from 10 different artists on it. Where do you put it? You can't cut it into 10 pieces and store it on your shelf under each artist individually, so you probably put it in a separate section just for comps, which I suppose are filed by the arbitrary name on the comp. I'm positive you have many, many more comps than I do, and screw all if I can find that one cool song on that one comp from what's his name. How in god's name do you keep that organized? You can't.

    So, when you dump that comp into iTunes, it breaks it down into 10 separate artist/album items, so that it can store them where most people can easily find them, by artist, by album, etc. Yes, you lose the compness of that set of songs, but there's a strong, logical reason for it. I'll get to that in a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Yes I put whole albums on my MP3 player. I put albums I like on my MP3 player, I listen to albums that I like on my CDP at home and in the car. don't recall the last time I pulled out an album to play that one song.
    Funny, I've always been about individual songs. I don't care about original sequences of albums, let alone comps. Too dogmatic for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Yes, I look at comps like albums. I have binders full of comps that I like to pull out and listen to in their entirety. If I want to listen to Nobody's Punk Rock comp I pull it out and put it into the CDR and hit play, just like any album I have on the shelf. Pretty simple and elegant. The difference comes when I want to put that on an itouch, it doesn't rip and sync like any other album although I FAIL to see any real reason why it can't be just as simple. It's not, obviously but you certainly haven't told me any reason why it CAN"T be that simple.
    It can't because it fights against the logic behind the way most people organize their music.

    Think about the logic of the workound several people have suggested; when you put the disc in the computer to rip it, you see the list of songs titles artist etc., before you rip it, change the name of the album to "Nobody's Punk Rock comp" and it will rip that group of songs as an album, regardless of artist. it will appear as an album called "Nobody's Punk Rock comp" in your list of albums.

    The problem is, what happens when you you like one of the songs so much you buy that artists album and try to rip it. You end up with 2 copies of that song, one under "Nobody's Punk Rock comp" the other, under the original album's name. Talk about untidy! And difficult to keep organized. I suppose you could uncheck that one song when ripping, but then when you list that album, that one song will be missing. That's even worse.

    When I first started using iTunes 5 years ago, I went thru this exact problem with a bunch of comps, which were the first items I ripped into iTunes. When I started ripping whole albums, ugh, what a mess. I basically had to start over again. Been there, done that, it's a freekin' mess. Trust me, it don't work.

    See, the logic behind the design of iTunes knows that you want to organize the root library of your music by the original album, not the comp name. It's thinking ahead for you, knowing it's just gonna create problems with organization later if you do that.

    Just let iTunes rip the songs retaining the album name. If you ever get the album and rip it, it will be seamlessly integrated and the song will remain on that comp playlist.

    And, you say you "look at comps like albums" well, the reality is you shouldn't, in the context of iTunes, you should look at them as Playlists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Apple can do a lot of fancy things I have difficulty accepting that this presents an overwhelming engineering and developmental challenge for them. I realize that's the way it was designed but only a blindly allegiant fanboy is going to defend a product that isn't flexible enough to use in a way that people want.
    Let me know if my previous comments clarified the logic behind why iTunes doesn't want to rip comps this way. iTunes design fights you using it like you think you want to, because it knows, in the long run, you'll actually regret using it that way, and that you'll probably blame iTunes for having such a messed up library of music, even though you did it to yourself!

    The reality is, the playlist feature gives you ultimate flexibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Let's put it this way Troy what is easier - ripping a cd and syncing the ipod or ripping a CD, creating a playlist, and then dragging and dropping the tracks you want in the order that you want them (assuming you want to keep the original order/flow, and I do!) and then syncing. I dunno, seems pretty obvious.
    Dude. It takes seconds. Literally. A few seconds.

    And doing so allows the individual songs to still retain their individuality, their ability to be sorted by album.

    The line of thought that such-and-such song is from "Nobody's Punk Rock comp" is wrong-headed in the context of iTunes, it's from the original artist's album. It's just on a playlist called "Nobody's Punk Rock comp."

    I hope that helps.

  15. #15
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    I of course get that, and it makes sense. I also get playlists, it makes great sense if I have a bunch of tunes on the drive and want to create a comp of my own on the fly to listen to. Great to have that ability.
    Once you begin to see the potential, you'll probably ONLY listen to playlists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Clearly the functionality I want doesn't exist in itunes which was the only question (of substance) in the original post. We can do something similar (a work around) by taking a lot of extra time and steps and if that's the best this thing can do - fine, you don't know until you ask. Seems kind of silly though, doesn't it? Clearly three people in this thread alone would benefit from an easier method to accomplish this. It would be great if in the future we could click a box that said - compilation- that would keep the tracks grouped together in the order that they are ripped. Being able to call such compilation Davey's 2004 Holiday Sampler would be nice too. Perhaps someday.
    That "comp checkbox" is an interesting idea, but it should automatically create a playlist, not change the root file storage of the individual songs.

    It will never happen tho, because it promote file sharing and the theft of music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    In the meantime, I guess I'll find out what happens when I try to import a soundtrack or some other commercially purchased comp. Not really expecting anything different.
    You will find it will download as an album, and may be stored in the sub folder "Compilations" in your iTunes music folder. Again, it's all about the name of the album when it's ripped.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    You do have to right-click on the CD when it appears in iTunes if you want to change anything, including check the compilation box. Apologies if this was covered here, but I didn't see it. If Gracenote doesn't recognize the CD, it will present as 'Aduio CD' next to where the disc icon shows up after you insert the disc. From there you can check that box so that the files are imported as a compilation, not as though it was an album by one artist. It would be helpful from there to type in the name of the comp & 'various artists,' Yes, it does help to create a playlist, but you don't even have to. You will want to input the song titles before importing, though. This is a pain, but worth it in the end.

    If you don't want to bother with a playlist, once they're imported into iTunes, when you want to move the files to the Touch, if you're not ripping directly to it, instead of dragging and dropping 15 or more files individually, click on the first one. Then press the shift key and click on the last one; all will be highlighted. Troy showed me this trick a few months ago and it is invaluable. From there you can drag and drop as one block. Move it to the Touch, either to the Library, or to a playlist if you take a second to create it, which I recommend. I have at least a couple of thousand playlists in my iTunes...and without them navigating my library would be a complete mess.

    I got started with making individual playlists years ago when I started ripping my collection to my computer, so I see it as an indispensable part of the process. Inputing info for homemade comps is something that no technology allows us to get around that I know of. But I gave up on MusicMatch after they changed up their software so that it didn't allow for info on individual tracks. Once I couldn't label a track on a comp to reflect different artists, I moved to iTunes permanently. That was nearly 6 years ago & I haven't looked back. But there are some things that make using it more manageable, and right-clicking to the 'get info' feature to facilitate input or editing of info is a biggie for people like us.

    I don't like others.

  17. #17
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Well after all this exchange of information and ideas I actually got to use it for the first time during my workout last night. The sound quality was so bad that it wasn't worth listening to. After some trial and error I think it's pretty obvious that the headphone jack is jacked up (n p i) I keep getting this scratchy sound throughout playback and it's not on the ripped tracks. It also occurs when using an rca to mini plug in every studio mixer here at the gym so it's not the headphone plug. Volume was also an issue, as in not nearly enough of it.

    Luckily I had my trusty "vintage" portable system of cdp and portable amp so I was not without music and that is the main thing. In the end, this thing isn't for me so it's gonna go back. A 120 gig classic isn't out of the question though.

    Thanks for all of the feedback.

    Regards,
    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  18. #18
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Well after all this exchange of information and ideas I actually got to use it for the first time during my workout last night. The sound quality was so bad that it wasn't worth listening to. After some trial and error I think it's pretty obvious that the headphone jack is jacked up (n p i) I keep getting this scratchy sound throughout playback and it's not on the ripped tracks. It also occurs when using an rca to mini plug in every studio mixer here at the gym so it's not the headphone plug. Volume was also an issue, as in not nearly enough of it.

    Luckily I had my trusty "vintage" portable system of cdp and portable amp so I was not without music and that is the main thing. In the end, this thing isn't for me so it's gonna go back. A 120 gig classic isn't out of the question though.

    Thanks for all of the feedback.

    Regards,
    jc
    I got nothing for you scratchy sound issue. They sound ok on the computer?

    Most people find the iPod to be the best sounding mp3 player on the market, so I'm not sure what your issue is there.

    There is a volume attenuator (found under settings) in the pod that you can adjust to increase your volume ceiling.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Clark
    Well after all this exchange of information and ideas I actually got to use it for the first time during my workout last night. The sound quality was so bad that it wasn't worth listening to. After some trial and error I think it's pretty obvious that the headphone jack is jacked up (n p i) I keep getting this scratchy sound throughout playback and it's not on the ripped tracks. It also occurs when using an rca to mini plug in every studio mixer here at the gym so it's not the headphone plug. Volume was also an issue, as in not nearly enough of it.

    Luckily I had my trusty "vintage" portable system of cdp and portable amp so I was not without music and that is the main thing. In the end, this thing isn't for me so it's gonna go back. A 120 gig classic isn't out of the question though.

    Thanks for all of the feedback.

    Regards,
    jc
    Are you using the OEM earbuds? Cuz those things aren't really that good.
    Just a thought.
    Mr. MidFi
    Master of the Obvious

  20. #20
    Stainmaster Finch Platte's Avatar
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    Shoulda stuck with the MiniDisc.

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