Green Day vs. Wal-mart

[Mr MidFi]

Of course, my perspective is soley from a buyer's point of view. I could care less what hoops vendors go through.

Hi 3LB. Just need a point if clarification...when you say "from a buyer's point of view," do you mean as a customer/consumer... or are you actually a retail Buyer (as in, job description)? Just curious.

[N. Abstentia]

So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD? Okay, fine. They certainly have the right to do that.

BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

[3-LockBox]

Hi 3LB. Just need a point if clarification...when you say "from a buyer's point of view," do you mean as a customer/consumer... or are you actually a retail Buyer (as in, job description)? Just curious.

strictly consumer...though I usually shop there at night or early morning (since its a 24 hr WalMart). Any time during the day, any day of the week there throngs of people there. Just too crowded for me most days. If I find local stores that keeps a good stock then I'll usually stick with those, even if they're a tad more expensive, what with the price of gas and all.

[Davey]

So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD? Okay, fine. They certainly have the right to do that.

BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

No, they won't carry it because the RIAA put a parental advisory sticker on it. I don't think they would have any problem selling it without that sticker, regardless of content. Not that there's anything wrong with bashing Walmart, but there are so many much better arguments against them than this silly Green Day publicity stunt.

[3-LockBox]

So let me get this straight...WalMart won't carry Green Day because there are a couple of curse words on the CD?
BUT why is it that I can walk into any WalMart and see The Complete Sopranos DVD box set on the shelf?

Someone had pointed that out already and there is no logical explaination for it, unless they feel that rock-n-roll is strictly kids stuff and they have to appease the Grups who shop there. There is a double standard/hypocracy here, but no worse than the hypocracy of a parent who don't want their childrens music to contain swear words, but will let them watch movies that contain them.

Someone suggested a moral agenda/indoctrination thingy and while that might be a big enough premise for a paranoid, Michael Moore style documentary, I really think that Wal-Mart thinks its pandering to their parent customers and nothing else. I know that 'excuse' is just as flimsy as the moral agenda conspiracy because all any Wal-Mart exec has to do is visit one of the stores to see what a zoo it is. The biggest issue for a lot of the chidren of Wal-Mart customers isn't going to be what they hear on a CD, so I do agree that its a goofy policy, but fortunately, there are better resources for music. I can't remember the last time I bought a CD at WalMart anyway.

[ForeverAutumn]

Someone suggested a moral agenda/indoctrination thingy and while that might be a big enough premise for a paranoid, Michael Moore style documentary, I really think that Wal-Mart thinks its pandering to their parent customers and nothing else.

I tend to agree with this. There could be a moral agenda, I don't know. But I suspect that it's more business related than anything else. Wal-mart's market is families on a budget and It would make good business sense to promote family values as part of their business plan. I don't understand, however, why CDs and not DVDs. I'm sure that if you asked, they would have a reason for it.

When I started this thread, I didn't mean for it to become about Wal-mart and whether they have the right to sell or not sell something. Not that I mind, if it's something that people want to discuss. But I thought that it would be more about the artistic integrity of whether an Artist (any artist, not just Green Day) should be made to change their art in order to have it sold by a particular retailer and how this would affect the art and the industry. Green Day can afford to say no to Wal-mart. They're going to sell albums no matter what. But what about the smaller bands that need Wal-mart to promote them? This kind of situation could be make or break for a young band without the dedicated fan base that Green Day has. If it came down to it, should a band "sell out" to Wal-mart by changing or editing lyrics? Is that censorship?

[kexodusc]

But what about the smaller bands that need Wal-mart to promote them? This kind of situation could be make or break for a young band without the dedicated fan base that Green Day has. If it came down to it, should a band "sell out" to Wal-mart by changing or editing lyrics? Is that censorship?

I can count on one hand the number of times I enter a Wal-Mart in a given year so I'm not familiar with their music content, but can anyone confirm if this is even an issue for small bands? I sort of have the impression that Wal-Mart just carries popular music from major labels anyway, mostly established names or the usual crap the industry pushes onto shelves. If that's the case (maybe it's not) then these smaller bands would never get shelf space there anyway until they become established, RIAA warnings or not.

I've lived in small towns with and without Wal-Marts and always seemed to find music somehow. Was never really that hard. Before the internet we bootlegged and traded tapes. Word of mouth, magazines, and even TV were the biggest sources of exposure to new music. Never the shelves of any store. It used to be part of the experience to hop on a bus and travel 20 miles to the city to go to some second hand or underground music store.

I'm not sure it's any store's obligation to carry a cross-section of all music genres to present an unbiased sample of what's out there or to be the source that gets music out there. So it is unphill battle for new, small bands who haven't made it yet, but that's the way it's always been. Should a band compromise its music to get shelf space at Wal-Mart? Up to them. I'm sure they'll be judged accordingly. I know artists who have a hard time making ends meet and part of me would have a hard time judging them for changing their art to make a living. Then again, from what I've seen, the compromised art probably sells less anyway or might not be the path to riches the artists hoped it would be.

As for Green Day, yeah, good for them for not altering their music, but I do believe they're milking the publicity here a bit too...can't say I blame them. Just not buying their really a victim of much here.

[ForeverAutumn]

As for Green Day, yeah, good for them for not altering their music, but I do believe they're milking the publicity here a bit too...can't say I blame them. Just not buying their really a victim of much here.

I don't shop at Wal-mart either so I can't answer your question, but you do make a good point about whether a smaller band would be carried by Wal-mart anyway. What about a mid-size band? Would it affect sales and exposure for a band like Kings of Leon if a huge music retailer (it doesn't have to be Wal-mart, could be HMV or Amazon for that matter) found Sex on Fire to be offensive and chose not to sell it? I'm not saying that retailers don't have the right to choose what to sell for any reason they want, I'm just wondering how it would impact the artist.

As for Green Day, the only publicity I've seen is the one article that I posted at the start of this thread so I really don't believe that they are milking this or trying to make themselves out as victims.

[kexodusc]

I don't shop at Wal-mart either so I can't answer your question, but you do make a good point about whether a smaller band would be carried by Wal-mart anyway. What about a mid-size band? Would it affect sales and exposure for a band like Kings of Leon if a huge music retailer (it doesn't have to be Wal-mart, could be HMV or Amazon for that matter) found Sex on Fire to be offensive and chose not to sell it? I'm not saying that retailers don't have the right to choose what to sell for any reason they want, I'm just wondering how it would impact the artist.

Fair question. At some point one has to ask if a smaller band's audience is affected signficantly by being dropped (or never carried) by Wal-Mart. I'm not sure there's a way to prove it one way or another, less shelf space is a detriment, but the counter argument is people who want such music don't typically shop for music at Wal-Mart or would find it elsewhere. I'm going to guess that since so many bands seem to make a go of it that Wal-Mart isn't the end all, be all in music yet.

As for Green Day, the only publicity I've seen is the one article that I posted at the start of this thread so I really don't believe that they are milking this or trying to make themselves out as victims.

Well, they had a choice. They could have come just ignored Wal-Mart (they admit it's probably no big deal for Green Day), but instead they chose to retaliate. Good for them. I don't mind that. They should. I just don't think that at least some part of that decision-making process didn't at least consider the favorable image it would present, and benefits that follow. A lot of people wouldn't have even known Green Day had a new album out if not for the "Green Day lashes out at Wal-Mart" story where they provided comments for the press. Good, free, timely publicity.

[3-LockBox]

Wal-Mart's current stock of new music reflects the way they've always been, the same approach all big retail chains take with regards to product; safe and sane. If its a Top40 release, they got it for sure. If its a Billboard top 100 release, they may have it on hand for a limited time. If its a bonafied classic, it'll always exist in some form or another (i.e. Eagles, Journey, AC/DC, etc).

I'd be shocked if Wal-Mart was ever in the front of anyone's mind where new music is concerned, unless its an exclusive, like Eagles, Journey and AC/DC, etc.

[Mr Peabody]

We have a couple WM's around here. It seems to vary as to what you find in the CD shelf. One barely covers the basics while another really surprised me as to what was there, bands such as Black Label Society and a few others not typically seen at a WM. I really don't think WM has any impact what so ever on Indie or any other small band. I'd be more concerned over the music industry monopolies that own the recording studio as well as radio stations throughout the U.S. as well as concert venues. If you don't kiss that butt you'll be playing in the park with an upside down hat.

I personally like the choice of an edited version when buying for my kids. I don't swear in front of them and I don't like for any one else to. I don't mind if Green Day don't want to sell an edited version I just wouldn't buy it if it wasn't appropriate. I didn't realize the point of contraversy was the sticker. But that makes sense, I bought my little girl the No Doubt CD from WM thinking it would be fine and was not to happy to hear about 50 ****s in that crap of a hit they had. Some time ago I bought a Rage Against the Machine CD from WM and it wasn't censored, so I wondered how some were and some were not. Good point was made about submitting to radio censorship. I personally wish they wouldn't, for those not wanting the offensive language there's no way of knowing until after the purchase has been made. Besides that it's rather pointless to bleep out some curse words but leave all the other colorful content in there. Do people think their kids won't know what a ho is or all the slang for sex and drugs. Unless parents ar hip, like me, ha, the kids probably understand the song better than they do.

This thread really brought out the whole gang didn't it?