F bombs & graffic language

[Troy]

Me- "That Skeptic guy sure pissed a lot of smart people off."

What gave you the idea that they are smart?

Why so combatitive? i've known a lot of these posters for many years now. They ARE smart, literate and glib as hell. You seem smart too, but you know what? Get over yourself.

Me- "Not a 'Trane fan either.

I like lots of music that has dissonance. I like the Rite of Spring. Ever hear it? Ever hear of it? I do not like "A Love Surpeme" because it is boring music. I went into tremendous detail picking it apart to understand WHY I found it boring. I gave it more than just a few hearings trying to keep an open mind as long as I could. I even went back to it many month later to see if I might have made a premature judgement. As of now, my original assessment of it is the same. Despite the fact that it doesn't agree with other people's including among those people who see themselves or are even acknowledged as "jazz experts" I stick with it. At least I know why I don't like it.

Did I ever hear of Rite of Spring? That's another very combatitive and snarky comment. Why are you being like that? I find the use/misuse of harmony in RoS to be much more interesting and pleasing than Trane's abuse of harmony. I like dissonance in rock music too, but I seem to have a threshold where the musician makes a sound like he's hitting a bag of cats with a hammer.

So I AGREE with you on the Trane thing, but you know what? Music, as in ALL artforms is open to interpretation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You have to realize that with art, there is no correct opinion. MGH knows how I feel about free jazz and we have disagreed on this board about that and many things in the past. But it's always been a fun, good natured form of disagreement. An enjoyable banter/reparte. You seem incapable of this good natured attitude.

I never said it was ALL bad. I even said some of it was pleasant. But what more can you expect from a teenage kid whose voice is changing singing simple ditties written to a formula?

While rock IS the medium for teenage kids, you imply that it's ONLY made by kids and that is just not the case. Personally I think that you get better as you get older, have more life experience and practice. So yeah, I don't listen to teenage rock, and I think most of the people here don't either.

Oh, and how old was Mozart when he wrote his first symphony? I think he was 4, wasn't he? Maybe it was 9 on the outside.

I've yet to meet one (rock fan) that was a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist. In fact I don't know if I ever met one that ever read a book....or could read or write for that matter. If every other word is "fock" it means that they have nothing to say which is hardly surprising because their heads are empty. If you have nothing to say, I think the least you can do as a courtesy to other people is to keep your mouth shut. Those that can read may just want to.

Making music is not brain surgery or rocket science. If it was, music would be incredibly formulaic and conservative. Art is about emotion, and emotion breeds strong feelings which breeds situations where people are going to say controversial things. You will find that the Rave Recs posters are actually quite literate and well schooled. I published a book just last year. I say Fock all the time. Did it appear in my book tho? Hell no. I understand when it's the right time and place to use that language . . . and I am a rock fan.

"the people that populate this board are (virtually) all amiable, smart people and we all learn from each other."

A rash and largely unsupported assumption on your part. They span the gammut from highly intelligent to the village idiots. Just like the rest of the population. Besides, what would lead you to belive that a man who calls himself MindGoneHaywire and signs all of his postings "I don't like others" is either intelligent or amiable? Nobody knows him better than he knows himself and I've already given him credit for being perfectly honest about it.

Well, I'm only speaking for this little desert island called Rave Recordings. The general board here is a free for all zoo, yes. But this board is populated by different posters than the rest of this site. I've been using the rave recs board since 1998. And I'm not even the oldest member of this forum.

I'm not gonna fight MGH's battles for him, but YOU, skeptic have a combatitive streak that I find distasteful. Get on your classical high horse and ride on. No one on this forum gives 2 sh!ts WHAT you think.

[mad rhetorik]

I do not like "A Love Supreme" because it is boring music. I went into tremendous detail picking it apart to understand WHY I found it boring. I gave it more than just a few hearings trying to keep an open mind as long as I could. I even went back to it many month later to see if I might have made a premature judgement. As of now, my original assessment of it is the same. Despite the fact that it doesn't agree with other people's including among those people who see themselves or are even acknowledged as "jazz experts" I stick with it. At least I know why I don't like it.

Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You might want to try listening to more Coltrane, though, to understand his development and what he was doing on A Love Supreme. Give Giant Steps a shot. It practically reinvented what could be done with the tenor sax, and it's damn fine music as well. At least give it a shot; your mileage may vary.

I never said it was ALL bad. I even said some of it was pleasant. But what more can you expect from a teenage kid whose voice is changing singing simple ditties written to a formula?

I've yet to meet one that was a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist. In fact I don't know if I ever met one that ever read a book....or could read or write for that matter. If every other word is "fock" it means that they have nothing to say which is hardly surprising because their heads are empty. If you have nothing to say, I think the least you can do as a courtesy to other people is to keep your mouth shut. Those that can read may just want to.

What gave you the idea that they are smart?

Gross generalizations once again. Your elitist tendencies come to the surface. I'm starting to wonder if you have any friends outside of that tightly-knit circle of classical snobs. Are you simply afraid to acknowledge that your "timeless and beautiful" music is widely ignored by a good percentage of the music-loving populace due to attitudes perfectly exhibited by your posts? Find a Classical Forum and stay there. We don't need your Ivory Tower proclaimations on how you find our music "empty-headed" and "simple." Piss off.

Besides, what would lead you to belive that a man who calls himself MindGoneHaywire and signs all of his postings "I don't like others" is either intelligent or amiable? Nobody knows him better than he knows himself and I've already given him credit for being perfectly honest about it.

Jay is probably one of the brightest guys I've met on any message board. He can give ample evidence and cite expansive music history to refute or support virtually every music argument I've seen swung at him. He's level-headed, consistent, and totally on-point. All you have to offer is outright snobbery, self-contradictions, and vacuous generalizations.

Regarding his signature: Irony. Look it up.

So what does that say about the singer (if you can call what these people do singing)? It says that he, like his music, is vacuous, vapid, insipid and a tiresome bore. (look up the first three if you have a dictionary and remember how to use it.) Then look at the mentality of the people who buy that music and go to those concerts and you will see why it has some commercial success. And to think that they not only let these people drive, they let them vote too. FiretrUCK that.

See passages in bold. I don't think these quotes need any comment. Your arrogance speaks volumes.

[skeptic]

"You might want to try listening to more Coltrane,"

I don't. Listening to the recording jazz lovers said was the one recording they would have if they could have no other was more than enough for me. Based on what those who love him best imply, it's all downhill from there.

Am I an elitist when it comes to music? YOU BET I AM!. With an endless ocean of product on the market, I try to discriminate as much as I can and listen to only the best if possible. What is the alternative? Go to the lowest common denominator and buy what is targeted at the least discriminating of taste? No thanks. Not for me.

"I'm starting to wonder if you have any friends outside of that tightly-knit circle of classical snobs."

Some of my many friends love classical music, some like many kinds of music including classical, some like music that is anything but classical, and some don't like music at all. I do not have to share the same opinions about music as my friends do. I don't try to impose my tastes on them and they respect mine IF the subject ever comes up at all.

"Find a Classical Forum and stay there. We don't need your Ivory Tower proclaimations on how you find our music "empty-headed" and "simple." Piss off. "

You think you speak for everyone of the thousands of people who registered on this message board? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ANYONE TO LEAVE???? It hardly surprises me that someone with a tyrannical mentality who want's to impose his opinions on everyone else and cannot tollerate anyone who disagrees with him would gravitate to the most banal pop culture. You must be a joy to live with.

"Jay is probably one of the brightest guys I've met on any message board. "

Having read the thoughts of both of you, I can easily see why you would revere him as a god.

[mad rhetorik]

"That being said, I'll admit that I do have somewhat of a closed mind when it comes to classical. I have little or no use for classical music. It's a baroque, dated, stagnant, pompous art form, surrounded by a cadre of killjoy, snobbish listeners who spit on anything associated with the culture of the "hoi polloi" (this is also true of jazz these days, in that there is a growing elitist crowd there too)."

You have the same bias you accuse me of having. Then where is your complaint?

I have my limitations and I acknowledge them. It's not like I haven't given classical a shot, either. I've tried the modern (avant-garde/12-tone) classical like Bartok, Stravinsky, Varese, etc. and I've also listened to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and the like. I certainly haven't listened to ALL of it, but I've listened to enough of it to understand that it is a musical form that is best appreciated and not enjoyed (at least by my standards). Perfectly performed classical compositions lack passion and intensity. I like to hear EMOTION, and my "silly" and "amateurish" rock music offers that in spades.

"I guess you have never seen a concert violinist give a performance or you wouldn't embarrass yourself with such a silly posting. The NEVER have sheet music. And they don't make it up as they go along, they have to REMEMBER every note. And if they don't and they screw up, the sophisticated audiences know it instantly.

And a sophisticated audience of jazzers can't tell when somebody screws up behind their instrument? While improvisation implies a certain degree of freedom, it doesn't mean that somebody can't make a mistake. While a concert violinist has to memorize a piece and play it note-for-note without sheet music, he is still only replicating a performance. Most trained saxophonists have to do it on the spot interacting with the rest of the ensemble, with only a loose, usually unwritten framework providing guidance. You tell me which is harder. Jazz improv is the musical equivalent to walking tightrope.

"After all, sometimes the use of profanity is completely warranted. Yes, it can be gratuitous and stupid, and if it offends me I can choose not to listen to it. "

It doesn't offend me, it bores me. And often so does the person who says it because he usually has nothing else interesting or effective to say in its place. In other words, an illiterate.

So by YOUR standards Roger Waters or Chuck D. are illiterate. Sorry, not buying it.

Rock is a medium containing humanity, passion, and emotion. Sometimes emotion dictates or justifies the occassional use of profanity (in an intelligent, adult context). Drop the squeaky-clean intellectual facade and maybe you can begin to relate to your fellow human beings.

[MindGoneHaywire]

"Part of yr problem is ...."

I don't have a problem.

HAHAHAHAHA

Classical snob + Poor attitude + DOESN'T KNOW WHAT A FAKE BOOK IS = WASTE OF TIME. Three strikes, you're out.

My father was an accomplished enough pianist to have had his own radio show when he was seven years old. Yr suppositions as to why someone would give up on classical music do not apply to him, not one of 'em. He didn't quit, people like you ruined it for him.

Coltrane recorded for years before experimenting with dissonance and harmonic distortion, but you said he "sucks" when you'd never even heard his music.Outstanding! This says a lot about you. Perhaps one day you'll hear "Blue Train," "My Favorite Things," "Ascension," "Giant Steps," and his work with Miles and Monk, and perhaps then yr opinion will become informed enough for someone to care about yr bleatings. Until then, they remain as irrelevant as anything else you have to say on popular culture and probably many other topics.

[mad rhetorik]

Am I an elitist when it comes to music? YOU BET I AM!. With an endless ocean of product on the market, I try to discriminate as much as I can and listen to only the best if possible. What is the alternative? Go to the lowest common denominator and buy what is targeted at the least discriminating of taste? No thanks. Not for me.

You bet your bippy I discriminate when it comes to purchasing music. I'm a college student and I don't have money to waste on superfluous purchases. I aim for the "classics," be they acknowledged or ignored, and spend quite a bit of time researching music and what to buy.

My point is that you seem to deem classical as the be-all end-all, and if that's your personal opinion, fine. But you don't have to belittle and take personal shots at people who listen to genres you don't like. Your posts suggest that you like to engage in such activities, and if you keep that up you're obviously going to be regarded with a good deal of hostility.

Some of my many friends love classical music, some like many kinds of music including classical, some like music that is anything but classical, and some don't like music at all. I do not have to share the same opinions about music as my friends do. I don't try to impose my tastes on them and they respect mine IF the subject ever comes up at all.

Well, why don't you apply the same attitude to your online activities and leave the sniping at the door? Afraid that if you behaved this way in person you'd receive a timely punch in the mouth?

You seem to have quite a case of keyboard courage.

You think you speak for everyone of the thousands of people who registered on this message board? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ANYONE TO LEAVE???? It hardly surprises me that someone with a tyrannical mentality who want's to impose his opinions on everyone else and cannot tollerate anyone who disagrees with him would gravitate to the most banal pop culture. You must be a joy to live with.

It was not an order. Merely a suggestion. You may get along better when surrounded by like-minded "classical or it's crap!" zombies. I have no problems when people disagree with me. I don't appreciate ad hominems, though. Insult me and I will be pleased as punch to respond in kind. You have a combative and snobby demeanor, therefore you are asking for it.

By the way, gratuitous use of caps and punctuation is the sure sign of an idiot--full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing.

Having read the thoughts of both of you, I can easily see why you would revere him as a god.

I revere no man, not even my parents. Like and respect him? Yes. Jay speaks his mind and has the intelligence and information to back himself up.

[skeptic]

"Like and respect him? Yes. Jay speaks his mind and has the intelligence and information to back himself up."

Why, because four letter profanities are among his most profound thoughts as well?

[mad rhetorik]

Why, because four letter profanities are among his most profound thoughts as well?

I've read his posts below. I see no evidence of your claim. I have a feeling that you never scored well in reading comprehension. Read Jay's posts again and you may realize that he has made some damn good points. The most important one being do not speak of things that you know nothing about. Your posts reek of self-imposed ignorance and self-congratulatory arrogance.

Swing and a miss. You're out. Back to the bush leagues.

[Gresh]

If Coltrane had the same pressure and criticism as a concert violinist, he would have returned to heroine.


OK, enough is enough Mr. Fancy Pants. It's one thing to slag rock music and it's fans ...but when you wantonly and repeatedly refer to the fine recreational drug of heroin as heroine, well then - you crossed the line sir.

Now I doubt Mr. Coltrane would have returned to a woman of exceptional and courageous character. Perhaps a woman of moxie ...but certainly not a heroine.

Heroin... what you and the blue blazer boys from the "inheritence" set probably know better as "horse" or "brown" or "scag", "smack", "H", "junk" is surely not heroine.

Let's review, shall we Thurston?

Joan of Arc... um, heroine.

Rosa Parks....let's see, yup heroine.

Karen O ...hmm... nope, not a heroine...but focking hot!

Scmeck...yup, you got it skippy - heroin.



Hope this helps.

Please refer any and all drug related questions or if you need a couple of "in the bedroon tips" "wink wink."
We'll keep it between us,

[jrhymeammo]

_R.I.P. Mitch Hedburg 1968-2005_

Wait a minute, he's dead? I saw him with Atell and Black. Mitch was the funniest. Man, that's too bad.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, it sucks. I only just discovered him, myself.

He was still alive when this thread was being constructed.

[Troy]

Wow, a 3 year old argument surfaces again. How amusing.

Is that Skeptic douchebag still posting here? He sure has a lot of posts.

[GMichael]

This is like the thread from the dead. I was 4 posts in before I noticed how old it is.

"This here guitar is guarantied to blow the b.lls off a charging rhino at 50 paces."

[Resident Loser]

...after all this time, some of skeptic's responses still make me LOL...

jimHJJ(...revere him as a god indeed!...)

[jrhymeammo]

I did this thing called "search" 99.9% of us are not aware of. Then came across this thread and saw the bad news..

Hey GM, where can I get that Guitar?