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  1. #1
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    This is really bad.......Did I break the Speakers??? What is going on??

    I got home from my trip, and I found that the XLO Reference Recordings Test & Burn-in CD had come. I was going through the first 7 tests and everything seemed fine. What I found out:

    -- The speakers are hooked up correctly in-phase (using the first two in-phase and out of phase tests):
    -- Tried just the bass on both speakers (they are correct).
    -- Tried just the tweeter on both speakers (they are correct).

    -- But Test #8 (e.g. Low Frequency Demagnetizing Fade) shows something is very/very wrong:

    -- On my upstairs system: (which consists of a low end Denon AVR and DVD player and Klipsh RB-5 II), I heard a low frequency hum that went from loud to soft to not being able to be heard after 25 seconds or so. This is what I expected to hear.




    ***** Now the problem *************


    -- On my system with the Magnepan 1.6's test #8 starts out with a normal low 'rumble'. Then a second sound that sounds like a loud RATTLE starts up. It sounds just like a ribbon is loose. It occurs on both of the speakers. Each time I play this track #8, the RATTLE sounds different--so it's not in the recording. Further, the louder I play this track the more RATTLE I hear.

    -- As track #8 gets softer, the rattle gets less, until eventually just the correct low rubble is heard.

    --After running this "test #8" multiple times, the rattle even occurs on the right speaker in normal music. I never heard this before. Did I break something? Something strange going on?? Please help......

    -- When I unhook the tweeter, this RATTLE sound is just as described above (e.g. it's just in the bass and not the tweeter).


    Thanks,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Stan, call magnepan tomorrow. Sounds like something is definitely wrong.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Stan, take a flashlight and look at the mylar and the wires to see if they are coming loose. It sounds like that may be the problem. it makes me wonder if thats why the guy you bought them from was selling them.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  4. #4
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    On the right one, (it's hard to tell) but it looks like a Mylar strip is broken?? The guy I bought them from said he had them for about a year. Got them it Pittsburgh. His audiogon feedback showed lots and lots of all very positive buys and sells. That's why I went with him.

    So, I'll call up Magnepan tomorrow, but I've got some real problems here........

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Last edited by manlystanley; 01-14-2010 at 07:01 PM.
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  5. #5
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Are they still under warranty?
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
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    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Stan, it looks like they have a 3yr warranty to the original owner. If they are broke and less than 3 yrs old you might have to work something out with the seller using his name. Hopefully he registered them or at least has the original receipt or maybe he can get one from the store of origin.

    By the way, I live 20 minutes from the Magnepan factory, let me know if there is something I can do to help.

    Best of luck,

    Larry
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
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    Hey Stan,

    That sounds like the magnepan banana peel. Every mag owner runs into that at one point.

    The wires are held on by adhesive to the mylar. Over time this comes undone and the wires peel off the mylar...you hear this a rattle or a buzz.

    That is the main problem with buying mags used. The seller might not know of the problem if there is music that lacks bass being played, or it could be the reason for selling them. THere is really no way to know without either taking the socks off, or playing some bass through them, and even then it might not show up.

    From the sounds of it, you have a couple of options. 1. Send them to magnepan...they will fix them and if the speakers are out of warranty, it is not a huge charge IIRC. And I remember them having a kit they could send for DIYers though they maynot send the water based adhesive out until it stops freezing in MN.. Or you can fix them yourself as detailed in the link:

    http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M...nn/repair.html

    That disk just helped you to find the problem earlier than you might have, but the problem is common as maggie ages. Sorry I was the one who suggested that disk but it wouldn't have caused the problem just allowed you to notice it.

    FWIW mine are like that though just the tips are off a bit. Occasionally I will hear a rattle, and about a week ago I ordered the stuff to fix that. You can kind of see it in the pict how the tips are not quite adhered. ALso, it may not be in the photo, but peeling can occur in the middle too.

    http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...k+dawnrazor&r=

  8. #8
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that, hope it works out. Let us know

  9. #9
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrazor
    Hey Stan,

    That sounds like the magnepan banana peel. Every mag owner runs into that at one point.


    [Snip]

    Sorry I was the one who suggested that disk but it wouldn't have caused the problem just allowed you to notice it.
    Hello DR,
    You had the best intentions. So, thanks for your help.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  10. #10
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Sorry to hear that, hope it works out. Let us know

    I'm thinking that I'll just sell them on Ebay with disclosing the banana peel problem. I'll loose money, but fortunately I got them for only $900 and they came with stands as well.. I'm finding out that moving form mid-fi to hi-fi is much more challenging then I thought.


    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  11. #11
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    Thanks Stan,

    Here is another option though expensive might actually be a great way to go and solve some other issues.

    Get them magnestanded.

    As part of that mod he will probably fix them for an additional price. And having heard the mod, I can say that it works wonders on an already great speaker.

    http://www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag6.html

  12. #12
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manlystanley
    I'm finding out that moving form mid-fi to hi-fi is much more challenging then I thought.


    Best Regards,
    Stan
    That is too bad about the speaker Stan but I'm gonna have to say, moving from mid-fi to hi-fi isn't really hard, you just got a bum deal with these. Moving to hi-fi is easy. Doing it on the cheap, is probably hard.

    Good luck though, I wish you all the best in getting them repaired and working.

  13. #13
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Don't sell them Stan! Hang in man, it will be worth it. You know what they're capable of. You have really smart people from the Asylum chiming in to help as well. I hope you keep them...

  14. #14
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrazor
    Thanks Stan,

    Here is another option though expensive might actually be a great way to go and solve some other issues.

    Get them magnestanded.

    As part of that mod he will probably fix them for an additional price. And having heard the mod, I can say that it works wonders on an already great speaker.

    http://www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag6.html

    Hello DR,
    I think that if I had tired them out in my listening room and lived them, I'd go and do this. It sounds like a really good option. But, plugging in $2,000 to do this great mod (and fix the wires) is really scary. What if I don't like them in the room downstairs?? Also, I'm not someone who takes one listen and then gives a: yea of nea. Instead, it takes me a while to formulate my opinion. So, If I did this and then 'my opinion changed' I'd be in big trouble.

    My upgrade style is to:
    -- Buy used stuff at a really good price.
    -- Only buy items that have a big name draw.
    -- Then if I don't like it, I can easily sell it without a huge price drop.

    For instance:

    -- All the speakers I've bought and sold, the only ones I lost money on was my B&W 684's. I list about $80 on them. But, used them for a year and half.

    -- My H/K amp: bought it for $35 and sold it for $50 (with it not working).

    Also, this guy says that he is booked until *AT LEAST* the fall of 2010 . That's a long time to wait.

    Anyways, you always have great suggestions. Thanks for your help.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  15. #15
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    That is too bad about the speaker Stan but I'm gonna have to say, moving from mid-fi to hi-fi isn't really hard, you just got a bum deal with these. Moving to hi-fi is easy. Doing it on the cheap, is probably hard.

    Good luck though, I wish you all the best in getting them repaired and working.
    I remember when I started in mid-fi, I read about terms like: cohesion , warmth, bright, dark, earthy, airy. Then I read how different amps sound better with different speakers, and some equipment don't work in certain rooms, etc, etc.

    I thought all these people were nuts. Why be so picky. i mean, boom-boxs worked for me for a long time. But, now that I've enjoyed mid-fi so much, I just want to move to hif-fi, and I do want to do it cheaply. So, that is my problem. But, I'm concerned that I might end up spending more money doing it on the cheap and getting a lower quality system.

    So, I'm in a re-evaluation mode.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  16. #16
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Don't sell them Stan! Hang in man, it will be worth it. You know what they're capable of. You have really smart people from the Asylum chiming in to help as well. I hope you keep them...
    Hey Chubbs,
    Great advice. I'll think about it. Thanks so much for your help.


    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  17. #17
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manlystanley
    . But, I'm concerned that I might end up spending more money doing it on the cheap and getting a lower quality system.



    Best Regards,
    Stan
    So true. I'm alot like you Stan, more in the sense that if I can build or DIY, I like to. You hit it right on the head though, you can get nickel and dimed to death.

    It's like the guy who keeps making lateral "upgrades" when what he should do is just save his money for a length of time, and buy that really significant piece.

    I guess if these speakers are gonna bleed your wallet dry, you'll have to move on. I wasn't trying to say you should spend heaps of cash to keep them. But if there's a way you can do it, without going broke, you should.

    Chubbs

  18. #18
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    I guess if these speakers are gonna bleed your wallet dry, you'll have to move on. I wasn't trying to say you should spend heaps of cash to keep them. But if there's a way you can do it, without going broke, you should.

    Chubbs
    Hey Chubbs,
    Your the man. You always, have the best advice. I've got to think this through and get something that I like. One thing that I *LOVE* about the 803N's, is there looks. Oh man, I've never seen such beautiful speakers. Sleek, shapely, bold yet refined. I'm sure that B&W had some seriously high paid consultants help them with the visual aesthetics.

    But, what good is looks if you don't love the sound?

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  19. #19
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Forgive me if I've missed something, manley. Have you removed the socks and looked at the diaphragms? If the only problem is some "banana" peel call Magnepan immediately and order the repair kit. It's a very easy fix.

    I have been imformed by several Maggy owners that all you need is acetone and DAP contact cement. The acetone is to clean of the old adhesive. DAP contact cement is better than what Magnepan uses. So I've been told.

    Look in on www.audiokarma.org there are many Maggy owners there. A sizeable percentage of them have done the same repair job. Most of those guys are very frugal. "Vintage" Maggy's are very popular with them.

    I had the problem many years ago on a pair of MG-2's. The hardest part is removing the socks! There's a bazillion staples holding them on. Give it a shot. If you decide not to DIY you can still sell them.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
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  20. #20
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Forgive me if I've missed something, manley. Have you removed the socks and looked at the diaphragms? If the only problem is some "banana" peel call Magnepan immediately and order the repair kit. It's a very easy fix.

    I have been imformed by several Maggy owners that all you need is acetone and DAP contact cement. The acetone is to clean of the old adhesive. DAP contact cement is better than what Magnepan uses. So I've been told.

    Look in on www.audiokarma.org there are many Maggy owners there. A sizeable percentage of them have done the same repair job. Most of those guys are very frugal. "Vintage" Maggy's are very popular with them.

    I had the problem many years ago on a pair of MG-2's. The hardest part is removing the socks! There's a bazillion staples holding them on. Give it a shot. If you decide not to DIY you can still sell them.
    Good point Joe. Is there a site that shows someone doing this? Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I fix my own cars, finished my basement, so I know I can do it.

    Thanks,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  21. #21
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    manley, direct your browser to www.audiokarma.org and ask.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  22. #22
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Hello Joe,
    Strangest thing, I was thinking that I'll follow your advice and fix the wires so that I can get a higher price for them. But, in the mean time I hooked back up the maggies. We'll, they sound increadably good--and great bass (except for the noise with the loose wires.)

    I've changed multiple things with since I put in the 803's, so I guess that's really improved things? It's late and I'm going to bed. But, the maggies sound better then the 803's sounded...... Very clean, life like, great bass (except the loose wires). And they even sound warm to my taste. Very strange.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  23. #23
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Today is my day off. I went out got all the supplies, took off the first cover and am starting to re-glue the wires back on. So far, seems pretty straight forward. We'll see........
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  24. #24
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Good luck Stan. Keep us posted on how it works.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  25. #25
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Good luck Stan. Keep us posted on how it works.
    Thanks. What I found on the first one, is that about foot long section of wire had come loose in the middle. This on the only wire run where there it two wires bunched together. I don't think I'll follow Peter Gunns procedure of stripping the glue from this point all the way to the top. It just makes too much risk of not aligning the wires between the magnet strips. So, I'l just fix the one foot section.

    It's amazing that such a little section of loose wire could cause so much noise. Also, I would be done by now, but my 8 year old daughters fish died. Adopted children have special needs and she was really broken up about it. So, she needed lots of my time and love last night.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

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