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  1. #26
    nightflier
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    Yes that was me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG. I'm trying to remember who had a pair of these (besides me): was it you? I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed driving the Maggie fronts with these.

    But the idea of using Maggies in an M/C setup bothers me. It's indeed true that the Maggies have a narrow sweet spot, so unless you're the only listener I don't seem them working.

    One thought is intriging, though, for HT use. For a long time various people recommend diapole speakers for the surround speakers. This is exactly what the Maggies are of course. A pair of smaller Maggies sitting either side of the listener, edge-on, might just work quite well. However this is not the recommend set up for SACD where all speakers are supposed to be directed at the listener.
    I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). But heat is a big issue for me because I'm working with a smallish room and have three full systems set up in it (yes, I know, that doesn't make me very popular with the wife). The other reason was that they are unwieldy. They are too large to fit on one shelf and I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. Yes, I know they sounded wonderful but that was the last straw; I would have shot-putted that brick out the window if I wasn't so busy cursing.... Anyhow, you would think that Monarchy could have at least put handles on the back or made them 1" narrower and a 1" taller (which, if my math is correct, would still have given the fins more surface area, btw). I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

    On a more positive note, a friend of mine put me in touch with a guy in Arizona who's also into digital amps (for the same reasons I am, imagine that). Anyhow, he's going to send me an RMB-1077 in exchange for my PS Audio HCA-2. It's just a loan, but we'll see what's what when it arrives. Jrhymeammo, your dealer's comments are not reassuring. Hopefully he's just referring to the Rotel amps paired with larger Maggies. If I have to, I'll just power the center and rears with a Rotel and use the Spectron for the L&R. I know for a fact that it has no issues driving anything, although to be frank, I haven't really driven a working pair of Maggies with it. John Ulrick said that digital will work fine, although he also said that not all class-d amps are created equal, of course. I will be doing some tests with the Spectron and the MMG-Ws this weekend so I'll know more on Monday.

    Funny story. Someone emailed and asked why I would want to "downgrade" from my Viennas to the "gimmicky" Maggies. He had other negative things to say about Maggies, so I figured he's probably had a bad pair, too, and I kind of felt obligated to correct a few assumptions, some of which I once shared. He's local, so I invited him over for a listen. He emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into believing something that wasn't real and said only hearing something on his own system would make him believe anything. I asked him what kind of amp he has and he said a Threshold T800 driving Vandersteen speakers. I looked it up: the amp can do 200/400W. I said no problem, I'll bring over the Maggies and we'll have a listen. Then he emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into upgrading anything. Maybe I was a little too forward in inviting myself over, but you gota wonder about some people....

    Long-story short, yes, if the amps can handle it, I'm replacing the Viennas with Maggies. I don't have a clear thought on the L&R yet. I may start with the MC1s and if that doesn't do it, I'll move on up starting with the MG12's. I have about $3K to spend, but that also is for a new pre (probably the McCormack MAP-1). If the Rotel can't handle even the MMG-Ws, then I'm going to try something used from Spectron, PS Audio or possibly NuForce's MC amp. Unfortunately, there really aren't many other options out there for Class-D.

  2. #27
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). ... I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. ... I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

    ...
    No offense taken!!

    I'm reminded now of your ealier comments. The Spectron is a class D amp I'd really like to hear myself. By consensus of TAS pundits a year or so ago, it was the best class D. At $600 you got a mind-numbing deal even for an older model -- you shouldn't imply that this somehow relates to the current price: the Muscian III Mk2 retails for $7200.

    My Monarchys run warm but not hot driving my MG 1.6. Hummm ... since your room is not large, I surmise that you listen a lot louder than I do. The current Spectron puts out 800 wpc into 4 ohms which would tend to favor it at higher levels of over the 120 wpc Monarchy.

  3. #28
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The 750 may be Adcom's best but I'd be surprised if you found it better than the SP9.
    I've been told that in passive mode the Adcom is up there with the best. I've got a chance to get one cheap. The only replacement for my SP-9 would be a better ARC Maybe an SP-10 or 11.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  4. #29
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I've been told that in passive mode the Adcom is up there with the best. I've got a chance to get one cheap. The only replacement for my SP-9 would be a better ARC Maybe an SP-10 or 11.
    For high level sources, ever tried a set of attenuators instead? Don't get me wrong, I really like my SP-9MKIII - but its not perfect. For the CD source, I don't use it at all. My DIY attenuator box has higher resolution and better separation (see the Stereophile test) resulting in a wider soundstage. I stumbled upon that discovery years ago when I built an inexpensive attenuator box for the office system. Just for grins, I put it in the main system. I was floored when I heard the $18 Radio Shack attenuator box (at half the price of one ARC knob) easily better the SP-9 for the CD source. On the other hand, the 9 works great for vinyl where the gain is needed and the separation issue is largely limited by the cartridge anyway. I later built a higher quality unit using DACT stepped attenuators, JPS Labs wire and Cardas connectors in a Par-Metal aluminum case that looks like a Levinson JC-2. It means I have to change cables when switching sources, but I think that is well worth the effort.

    Similarly, I don't use a line stage in the vintage garage system either. The Pioneer tuner, Bellari phono preamp and Manley DAC each have gain controls and drive the amp directly.

    rw

  5. #30
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    Uh..., E-stat, where's the remote?

  6. #31
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Uh..., E-stat, where's the remote?
    Remote? We don't need no steenkin' remote in the man caves! Those are only found in the HT in the den for wifey!

    rw

  7. #32
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    For high level sources, ever tried a set of attenuators instead? Don't get me wrong, I really like my SP-9MKIII - but its not perfect. For the CD source, I don't use it at all. My DIY attenuator box has higher resolution and better separation (see the Stereophile test) resulting in a wider soundstage. I stumbled upon that discovery years ago when I built an inexpensive attenuator box for the office system. Just for grins, I put it in the main system. I was floored when I heard the $18 Radio Shack attenuator box (at half the price of one ARC knob) easily better the SP-9 for the CD source. On the other hand, the 9 works great for vinyl where the gain is needed and the separation issue is largely limited by the cartridge anyway. I later built a higher quality unit using DACT stepped attenuators, JPS Labs wire and Cardas connectors in a Par-Metal aluminum case that looks like a Levinson JC-2. It means I have to change cables when switching sources, but I think that is well worth the effort.

    Similarly, I don't use a line stage in the vintage garage system either. The Pioneer tuner, Bellari phono preamp and Manley DAC each have gain controls and drive the amp directly.

    rw
    From time to time I've thought about building a passive attenuator using a Shallcross ladder attenuator. What has stopped me is that I use long cables (20Ft) from my preamp to my power amps. Spending close to $500 for a something only to find that it's unusable is something I'd rather not do. Does anyone have any input on long cables and passive attenuators? How about long cables and transformer attenuators? I hear some think transformer attenuators are better than switched.
    However, I'm open to almost anything. The Par-Metal case sounds interesting. I checked the web site. My interest is piqued. Where can I get some really nice knobs? I would need some holes drilled. Does Par-Metal do that?
    Maybe it's time to build my own ultimate passive preamp. My financial situation is loosening up and I'll shortly have a great deal more discretionary income than I've had recently. I'm a vinyl junkie. What funding I've had went to new vinyl. A few CD's managed to sneak in there also.
    No! I'll not be going to Goodwins for the Apogee Mini Grands they have right now. I will be on the lookout for a pair of Studio Grands.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  8. #33
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    JoeE don't need a remote, he has his preamp in his lap... I'd like to try an Adcom 750 with my 5500 amp. I heard one once in a store and compared to the 450 preamp couldn't tell much difference. But the sales person didn't mention it having passive and active, nor did he say which was on. All I knew is I wasn't going to pay the difference in cost for no noticeable improvement. With those who have had the 750 claim it's good, I've always wanted to try one again to see if that first impression was correct or the demo was some how skewed.

  9. #34
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I've gotten used to having no remote for my preamp. It's only 2 steps away. Besides, I need the exercise.
    The 750 is a John Curl Design. Maybe an extended audition would be in order. It has a remote. So, I would get even less exercise.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  10. #35
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    What has stopped me is that I use long cables (20Ft) from my preamp to my power amps. Spending close to $500 for a something only to find that it's unusable is something I'd rather not do.
    Agreed. If you have basic soldering skills, you can make one for under twenty bucks. I can even provide detailed instructions since an inmate over at AA had asked me to do that years ago. Here's what it looks like:




    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Does anyone have any input on long cables and passive attenuators? How about long cables and transformer attenuators? I hear some think transformer attenuators are better than switched.
    Total capacitance is the rub with attenuators which requires short and/or very low cap cables. I use 2 meter runs of JPS Labs Superconductor+ which has a total of 160uF. Twenty feet of Bluejeans Cable LC-1 only runs 244 uF. Using a DACT supplied spreadsheet calculator, there shouldn't be any audible HF rolloff with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    The Par-Metal case sounds interesting. I checked the web site. My interest is piqued. Where can I get some really nice knobs? I would need some holes drilled. Does Par-Metal do that?
    I used some ARC knobs. I'm sure Par-Metals would drill the holes for you, but it really wasn't a big deal. Here is the updated version:



    rw

  11. #36
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info E-Stat. I don't think there will be any problem with soldering. I applied the POOGE treatment to my Haflers years ago and my MK-III's have only the transformers in common with their namesakes. All the work was done by yours truly.

    Do you have any experience with using transformers as attenuators?
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  12. #37
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Some generic opinions:

    Passive pre amps are very impedance sensitive, mine is driven by a Mark Levinson 360S. Mark Levinson claims an output impedance of 6 Ohms, so I designed my passive to average 3 KOhms instead of the usual 10K.

    I also audition only low capacitance cables (currently running Cardas Golden Presence).

    According to a very long discussion on the John Curl blowtorch DIY thread, a switched passive is much better than variable POT attenuator until you spend hundred$ for POTS.

    The Placette gets good reviews, uses first class parts and with the remote allows the pre to power amp cable to be arbitrarily short.

    I've never heard them, but transformer passives should do well with long cables. They have other issues making it all but impossible to make them inexpensive.

    Maggies and other planar speakers seem to do best with very low amplifier source impedance (no built in dynamic damping in the driver cones?) So, either very high power tube or reasonable power solid state. Most solid state switching amps have high damping factors, maybe even higher than equivalent power conventional transistor amps. So planar bass will sound quite good with a competent switcher
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  13. #38
    nightflier
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    Hermanv, thanks for bringing this thread back to the original topic: Magnepans.

  14. #39
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings on the Maggies. In general I like planar, but they need room.

    Maggies are reportedly more sensitive to speaker cables than most speakers and are placement critical.

    A little research on the web and you will find a number of crossover component DIY upgrades, especially the film capacitors. There is broad agreement that the upgrade is a good idea.

    There is also broad agreement that they like power, I suspect the damping factor I mentioned in my previous post.

    When upgraded, driven by the right electronics and correctly placed in a room, they are supposed to be one of the all time bargains in sound versus cost.
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  15. #40
    nightflier
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    Well the Rotel RMB-1077 is on its way. Should be here in a few days. Very curious to hear how it handles the MMG-Ws.

    So far the absolute best combination I have tried is the Plinius CD-LAD paired with the Spectron amp. Even my PS Audio amps can't quite match that. And I'm just working with the MMG-Ws at a measly 100-16K Hz. and a sub (which by the way is a pain to integrate properly - 'been fiddling with it all weekend). So far these are my observations:

    - I really would need two subs. One for deep bass and another for filling in the bass between 30Hz and 100 Hz. I'm going to talk to Hsu about their mid-bass module (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html) which is supposed to do just that. Of course at $500, that's a steep price to pay for what is essentially a weaker sub. It's also going to be a chore getting both subs integrated properly, but maybe with that price tag, Hsu will be able to offer up some assistance. They are also local, so I can just drive up the freeway and bug them with my questions.

    - A better pre-pro is in order. I've been a fan-boy for Outlaw since they came out with the ICBM, but I'm really concerned that they are a bit over their heads in this area. I have a line on a used but pristine McCormack MAP-1 for $1200. It's local (well sort of) and with all the positive reviews it's been getting, that may just be the ticket. I know Outlaw and Emotiva will beat the MAP-1 on features & price, but I really am hoping for some noticeable improvement in sound when I audition it.

    - While I know that the sweet spot is small with the Maggies, I'm now really curious to see what it would be like with a center channel. I tried the MMG-Ws with my current center channel (not Magnepan), and while the sound was noticeably different, the dispersion allowed me to sit pretty far off center w/o too much loss. I imagine that Magnepan's MMG-C, with its curved panel would be equally good (and of course, mesh much better with the L&R.

    - Heat dissipation is still a huge issue. This weekend the temperatures were way up and sitting in my man-cave in the afternoon was a sticky endeavor. The pre/pro is a little toaster, the SS amp equally so, and even the DVD player is too warm to touch (I'm temporarily using one of those trendy super-thin players, the HK DVD-48 - what a piece of sh..). Anyhow, that brings up another question. My current choice for a BR player is the Oppo BDP-83. Does anyone know if that sucker runs very hot? I don't suppose anyone has a McCormack MAP-1 out there they can tell me about?

    ***********************************

    hermanv, the MMG series have captive speaker wire, so changing that out is probably not an option. If I do spring for a larger pair, I'll definitely explore that. I'd be very curious to hear how something like the Mapleshade wire would do compared to my garden-hose-sized wire - that's still something I'm interested in trying out. Upgrading cross-overs is probably outside my comfort level, especially on the more expensive speakers - I would hate to screw that up.

  16. #41
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    <snip>
    hermanv, the MMG series have captive speaker wire, so changing that out is probably not an option. If I do spring for a larger pair, I'll definitely explore that. I'd be very curious to hear how something like the Mapleshade wire would do compared to my garden-hose-sized wire - that's still something I'm interested in trying out. Upgrading cross-overs is probably outside my comfort level, especially on the more expensive speakers - I would hate to screw that up.
    I am not familiar with that model. Since Magnapan has been doing this for many years, they may well have read the cable critique. If so, it would certainly be no surprise if they found a good cable match and then made it integral or captive.

    I can easily sympathize about a reluctance to change capacitors. There is a correlation between those capacitors most people think sound better and physical size, the better ones can be quite big and may not fit into he space allocated by the factory. If the speakers are new, who wants to jury rig a carbuncle on your new expensive toys?

    Besides if the speakers are new the crossover is likely to need a hundred hours of break in. For normal listening, this would take months. And if they are a newer design, Magnapan may well have made a capacitor design change.

    In any event, congratulations, all reviews and forum posts say you have bought a fine product.
    Herman;

    My stuff:
    Olive Musica/transport and server
    Mark Levinson No.360S D to A
    Passive pre (homemade; Shallco, Vishay, Cardas wire/connectors)
    Cardas Golden Presence IC
    Pass Labs X250
    Martin Logan ReQuests.

  17. #42
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    The MAP-1 for $1200.00 is a deal. If you try Maple Shade be sure to post a review. I've always wondered if they lived up to what they wrote about them. They look a bit thin.

    Why so hot, ever hear of AC? Get you some of those triple pain gas filled windows. I thought you would have moved into one of those under ground homes by now since you are our leading Green guy

  18. #43
    nightflier
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    Green with envy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Why so hot, ever hear of AC? Get you some of those triple pain gas filled windows. I thought you would have moved into one of those under ground homes by now since you are our leading Green guy
    I do have aircon, but that room is furthest from the AC unit, and gets the least. As far as going green, I've got double-pane windows, a heavy curtain (don't laugh, it makes a big difference), a whole-house fan, but it's not enough. Ceiling fans are next on the agenda, as soon as I get the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The MAP-1 for $1200.00 is a deal.
    It comes without the remote, which I was not originally aware of, so that's a bit of a bother. McCormack's website is pathetic, to say the least and nobody there seems to want to answer the phone or email - I'm beginning to have doubts on that one. Anyhow, I'm going to see if I can get a lower price because of all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    If you try Maple Shade be sure to post a review. I've always wondered if they lived up to what they wrote about them. They look a bit thin.
    Yes they do, and it's what's always kept me skeptical. But I need to simplify things and a thiner wire would be a whole lot more manageable in the spaghetti soup I'm brewing behind my gear.

    Hermanv, if there's one thing Magnepan can be criticized for it's the slow pace of change in their designs. Yes, they have a few models every now and then, but the technology has not changed much and they tend to stick to older connectors, wires, and capacitors a lot longer than they should.

    I also can't seem to get a response from Magnepan. I know they're supposed to be phone-friendly, but that has not been my experience. At the risk of sounding suicidal about it: all I wanted was a center channel!

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    There is hope for the Maple Shade, my Siltech aren't all that thick and the bass response is excellent.

    Spearitsound has the MAP-1 and matching 5-channel amp for $4490.00 the pair new and that may include shipping. Jack Tozzi will answer your McCormack questions. His side kick that sometimes helps answer email isn't very informative but Jack usually is and he isn't afraid to tell it straight. Of course, the Rotel might already be there and the McCormack probably throws some heat. They may shoot you a deal on just the MAP1 though.

    My sub is out and I have some other expenses to deal with so if you are even remotely interested in my Primare PM me an offer. It does have video but the analog is very good. In fact, going to Marantz was a step down in sound quality. Looking back if I knew then what I know now I wish I had bought a better BD player with decoding and bass management and stuck with the 31.7's analog input. I have two remotes

  20. #45
    nightflier
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    Mr. P, that Primare is still in the back of my mind, but I'm hunting down the McCormack for an in-home audition first. One thing I don't like about the McCormack is that it's only 5.1 while the Parasound was 7.1, but I'm pretty sure they'll be very different in sound quality, too. In any case, the McCormack better impress me and I'm certainly not going to buy it w/o first hearing it.

    On another note, the Rotel arrived last night. I haven't had a chance to fire it up, but I did get a chance to look inside (there was a small piece of plastic rolling around inside, so I opened it up). The first thing that struck me was that it is supposed to be 7-channel but it has 5 smaller isolated circuit boards, and two larger ones, so I can only guess that the two larger ones are for the front L&Rs. This doesn't jive completely with what is stated in the manual where it says that the 7 channels are identical.

    I'm first going to use it as a 2-channel amp in place of my Spectron. I can't do a direct A/B comparison because I have no easy way to switch it, but I'll be taking notes. Once I am comfortable that it can handle the MMG-Ws adequately, I'll put it in the A/V rack and see how it handles a full-length film. My contact who sent the amp says that while it doesn't get very hot, it will get "warm to the touch" so I'll be checking for that.

    If it does run too warm, then I'm going to go solid state and buy a 3-channel Odyssey Stratos for the rear channels and use the Spectron for the fronts. It can do 150/300/600 watts, theoretically, wich should be plenty. Klaus says that his amp has enough power reserves that it should run cool even running Maggies. I'm not so sure I believe that, but I've had great luck with Odyssey, so that is becoming a very real alternative. It's only $1550 and I'll try to negociate a 12v trigger into the deal, if I go that route. I have a Parasound SCAMP I can use, but I'd rather avoid the extra wiring.

    Another question: someone on Audiogon is asking $925obo for a pair of Magnepan MG12s. Good deal or should I go up to the 1.6s? The 12s are a scosh smaller than the latter and the specs are about the same, but do they sound very different?

  21. #46
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    Spearitsound will allow some time for return if not happy, although not as generous as other online retailers. You might check, I think www.amusicdirect.com either picked up McCormack or some pieces. Either way you aren't obligated if you wanted to shoot Jack some questions.

  22. #47
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier

    Another question: someone on Audiogon is asking $925obo for a pair of Magnepan MG12s. Good deal or should I go up to the 1.6s? The 12s are a scosh smaller than the latter and the specs are about the same, but do they sound very different?
    12s and 1.6s sound exactly the same. 12 just puts out slightly smaller sound. If I was in your possible, I would look for a pair of 10.1QR. Modification work on the corssover looks extermely accessible.

  23. #48
    nightflier
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    10.1qr? Those are not listed on the website. Are they much older?

    Speaking of the MMG-Ws, for sh*ts-n-giggles I pushed them as hard as they would go last night. And yes, they do have their limit and will start to drop off very fast once you reach it. I've never heard that on Maggies and I would probably want to go louder than we did last night, so maybe these should be relegated to rear duty after all.

  24. #49
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Hi Nightflier, I own a system like your looking to make, so perhaps I can give you some of my findings.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    1. The mid-range is great, but the top end is very easy to reach. I'm pretty deaf, but I can easily hear where the speaker ends. Would a super-tweeter help?
    I've never added a super tweeter to any speaker, so on that account I'm in the dark. Perhaps yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    2. Are the MC1s that much better? I can see that the top end would be much improved, but the bottom only adds 20Hz. For more than 3x the price, are they worth it?
    The short answer is yes. The MC1's quasi-ribbon tweeter is so good that in some respects it's BETTER than the tweeter in my 3.6's on SOME program material. The MC1's tweeter is always sweet, where the 3.6's true ribbon can get a bit forward with poorly recorded material. (like most HT stuff!)

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    3. Can I comfortably use a MMG-C in the front with MC1s on the L&R? Or would I then really need to step that up to the CC3 (also at 3x the price)?
    I would say ABSOLUTELY, however the CC3 will BLOW the MMG-C away on both resolution in the upper treble, and total output. Worth the upgrade eventually.


    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    4. What are my options for the rear channel(s)? My room is small and these speakers throw a huge sound stage, so two more MMG-Ws in addition to the rears would really be overkill. Would I be able to use a single MMG-C or am I blaspheming with that suggestion?
    The MC1's hang with little intrusion into the room in a 5.1 setup. Really they are less intrusive than the old stand mounts I used to use. For a 7.1 setup you will want 4 to 5 feet from rear the speakers to the back of the seating position. I think MMG-W's will be find for surround duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    5. Due to circumstances, the only multi-channel amp I now have available to me is a 125/180W one. Frankly it can't do the job and peters out with loud effects. Someone suggested the Rotel RMB-1076/1077 since it can dip down to 2 ohms. I'm partial to Class-D and have had several so I don't have doubts about the technology, but it's only a 100/200 watt amp. Has anyone used these amps with Maggies and had good results?
    I run a mixed setup amplified wise. The mains are run with class D PS Audio amp, the rears with my receiver (Pioneer Elite), and the center with a Musical Fidelity class A amp. You DON'T need an amp capable of 2 ohms with ANY maggie. They are all a resistive load, so the only problem will be how loud you want to drive them. I get my room PLENY loud and the most powerful amp I use is less than 200 per channel.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    I know the higher-end Maggies have substantially greater range, but they are also more expensive, larger, and as I've found out, very heavy too, which makes them a pain to ship. So I really want to stay with the wall hanging speakers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    As much as I love my 3.6's, I wouldn't be upset with a set of MC1's across the front. As long as you have a sub in the mix you've got a serious setup for both HT and audio.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  25. #50
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Any one try or hear what happens when Maggies are driven by tubes?
    Yes, and with the right setup it's magical. I've heard Maggie 3.6's driven by a set of reference Audio Research amps. Crazy good! Like floating in a sea of sound.......
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

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