Giving Magnepan another try

[nightflier]

luvtolisten, I actually purchased two off-white colored MMGs for $250 from a local seller, which I think was a great deal. I am now on the lookout for a MMG-C to match these for the front, but was thinking that I might be better off putting the MMG-Ws in the back instead. That way I could use something larger for the fronts.

The MMG-Ws as L&R fronts are very good. Yes, I'm giving up anything above 16 kHz and everything below 100Hz and that's a problem I'm struggling with. As a point of reference, I'm A/Bing them against my Vienna Weberns (also on-walls), and while the Maggies have those shortcomings their mid-range, particularly with voices and chamber music, is astoundingly good if not better.

As far as sweet spot, that can be adjusted by changing the angle on the wall, but yes, w/o a center channel, the sweet spot is really just a few feet. I can even tell when I just move my head to the left and to the right.

jrhymeammo, my experience with Naim is that most of their gear is way under-powered. Somehow I don't think that would be a good match for 3.6's, or does that include a pair of superchargers in between?

Mr.P., I was using a tube preamp (Odyssey Candela) when I tested the Maggies with a class-D amp, and that sounded very good. And I don't even think I heard that combination to its full potential since I had to use XLR-to-RCA adapters. I will also say that this sounded better than the Parasound P7 preamp (which may not be a completely fair assesment since it's having RCA cross-talk problems which could be indicative of other issues). It also sounded considerably better than my Outlaw 970 pre/pro although that one is also having problems, albeit only on the digital inputs, I think.

I should really stick to gear I know works....

____________________

Anyhow, what I've been struggling with is improving the sound in my surround sound room to perhaps in the future get rid of the 2-channel system altogether. I have a large collection of SACDs and I really have not enjoyed their full potential. Also, until these Maggies arrived, I had not found a speaker that I liked more than the Weberns. All my previous attempts with Magnepan were filled with problems, some of them quite costly ones, so I'm now taking things one step at a time.

The MMG-W purchase was more of a whim/impulse buy. They were inexpensive, local (so no shipping), and a heck of a lot smaller than even the MMGs. Size is a big problem for me as I'm working with a small room with lots of stuff in it (and that's not likely to change any time soon). So if I do go for floor-standing Maggies, they'll have to be as narrow as possible. Several people recommended the MG12, but unless I can also mount those to the wall, that's going to be a problem. At 17 inches wide, they are large for me. Hmmm, maybe I can mount them to the wall.....

The other problem I'm trying to deal with is heat & energy consumption. Here in SoCal, that's particularly important, so digital amps are kind of a necessity for me. That little Rotel RMB-1077 is small, light, and runs cool, but I'm worried it won't have the power to drive the Maggies. My current amp, the Outlaw 7125 just doesn't cut it. I had the volume cranked to 80% and it sounded like it wanted to tap out. In contrast, my Spectron amp has no such issues, but it's 2-channel and XLR-only. Ironically, just before I got the Maggies, I had to return a PS Audio multi-channel amp that would have been perfect.

Aaarrrggghhh. Sometimes I think this hobby is making me loose my hair faster than my kids are....

[luvtolisten]

Feanor, thanks for the quick response!
Nightflier, thanks for the correction on the Magnepan model# and info on your experience with them. I'd be interested in your final results and what you decide as a set up. Sorry about your equipment issues, when it rains it pours I guess. I wish I could say "it keeps you young" but like kids, it adds a few years. and gray hairs

[Feanor]

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG. I'm trying to remember who had a pair of these (besides me): was it you? I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed driving the Maggie fronts with these.

But the idea of using Maggies in an M/C setup bothers me. It's indeed true that the Maggies have a narrow sweet spot, so unless you're the only listener I don't seem them working.

One thought is intriging, though, for HT use. For a long time various people recommend diapole speakers for the surround speakers. This is exactly what the Maggies are of course. A pair of smaller Maggies sitting either side of the listener, edge-on, might just work quite well. However this is not the recommend set up for SACD where all speakers are supposed to be directed at the listener.

[E-Stat]

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG.

Those are probably some sweet sounding amps. Simple topography, well built with a big power supply designed to drive challenging loads. For me, that's a formula for success. Those first few watts really make the biggest difference. They are also "passive friendly" with their 1 volt sensitivity and 100k input impedance.

rw

[Feanor]

Those are probably some sweet sounding amps. Simple topography, well built with a big power supply designed to drive challenging loads. For me, that's a formula for success. Those first few watts really make the biggest difference. They are also "passive friendly" with their 1 volt sensitivity and 100k input impedance.

rw

All true. The SM-70 Pro is a high bias, zero global feedback design, with 60,000 uF per side. For quite a while I drove them with an Adcom GFP750 in passive mode by way of 6' XLF cables; that work flawlessly.

[JoeE SP9]

Feanor, what do you think of the GFP-750? I have a chance to get one cheap. I know it's Adcom's best ever preamp especially in passive mode. I run long cables from my preamp (20Ft) would that be an issue in passive mode?

[Feanor]

Feanor, what do you think of the GFP-750? I have a chance to get one cheap. I know it's Adcom's best ever preamp especially in passive mode. I run long cables from my preamp (20Ft) would that be an issue in passive mode?

Pretty decent in passive mode. I find active mode just a bit sharp, solid statish if you will.

From what I know, you can tolerate a longer run if you're source has a relatively low output impedance and your target has a high input impedance. I've heard it said that the latter ought to be at least 10x former, but that 100x is better. A higher number permits longer runs I presume.

[DAVEBUCK]

Love the Maggies. BUT they love lots of POWER. 200W @4ohms minumum! thats the key. I am in the process of upgrading to the MC-12 or 1.6R. I am looking at the odyssey or parasound 5250 amp. probably in the 250W -300W. A nice HSU sub or sunfire sub helps as well!

[nightflier]

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG. I'm trying to remember who had a pair of these (besides me): was it you? I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed driving the Maggie fronts with these.

But the idea of using Maggies in an M/C setup bothers me. It's indeed true that the Maggies have a narrow sweet spot, so unless you're the only listener I don't seem them working.

One thought is intriging, though, for HT use. For a long time various people recommend diapole speakers for the surround speakers. This is exactly what the Maggies are of course. A pair of smaller Maggies sitting either side of the listener, edge-on, might just work quite well. However this is not the recommend set up for SACD where all speakers are supposed to be directed at the listener.

I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). But heat is a big issue for me because I'm working with a smallish room and have three full systems set up in it (yes, I know, that doesn't make me very popular with the wife). The other reason was that they are unwieldy. They are too large to fit on one shelf and I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. Yes, I know they sounded wonderful but that was the last straw; I would have shot-putted that brick out the window if I wasn't so busy cursing.... Anyhow, you would think that Monarchy could have at least put handles on the back or made them 1" narrower and a 1" taller (which, if my math is correct, would still have given the fins more surface area, btw). I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

On a more positive note, a friend of mine put me in touch with a guy in Arizona who's also into digital amps (for the same reasons I am, imagine that). Anyhow, he's going to send me an RMB-1077 in exchange for my PS Audio HCA-2. It's just a loan, but we'll see what's what when it arrives. Jrhymeammo, your dealer's comments are not reassuring. Hopefully he's just referring to the Rotel amps paired with larger Maggies. If I have to, I'll just power the center and rears with a Rotel and use the Spectron for the L&R. I know for a fact that it has no issues driving anything, although to be frank, I haven't really driven a working pair of Maggies with it. John Ulrick said that digital will work fine, although he also said that not all class-d amps are created equal, of course. I will be doing some tests with the Spectron and the MMG-Ws this weekend so I'll know more on Monday.

Funny story. Someone emailed and asked why I would want to "downgrade" from my Viennas to the "gimmicky" Maggies. He had other negative things to say about Maggies, so I figured he's probably had a bad pair, too, and I kind of felt obligated to correct a few assumptions, some of which I once shared. He's local, so I invited him over for a listen. He emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into believing something that wasn't real and said only hearing something on his own system would make him believe anything. I asked him what kind of amp he has and he said a Threshold T800 driving Vandersteen speakers. I looked it up: the amp can do 200/400W. I said no problem, I'll bring over the Maggies and we'll have a listen. Then he emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into upgrading anything. Maybe I was a little too forward in inviting myself over, but you gota wonder about some people....

Long-story short, yes, if the amps can handle it, I'm replacing the Viennas with Maggies. I don't have a clear thought on the L&R yet. I may start with the MC1s and if that doesn't do it, I'll move on up starting with the MG12's. I have about $3K to spend, but that also is for a new pre (probably the McCormack MAP-1). If the Rotel can't handle even the MMG-Ws, then I'm going to try something used from Spectron, PS Audio or possibly NuForce's MC amp. Unfortunately, there really aren't many other options out there for Class-D.

[Feanor]

I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). ... I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. ... I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

...

No offense taken!!

I'm reminded now of your ealier comments. The Spectron is a class D amp I'd really like to hear myself. By consensus of TAS pundits a year or so ago, it was the best class D. At $600 you got a mind-numbing deal even for an older model -- you shouldn't imply that this somehow relates to the current price: the Muscian III Mk2 retails for $7200.

My Monarchys run warm but not hot driving my MG 1.6. Hummm ... since your room is not large, I surmise that you listen a lot louder than I do. The current Spectron puts out 800 wpc into 4 ohms which would tend to favor it at higher levels of over the 120 wpc Monarchy.