Is WikiLeaks good or bad?

[Hyfi]

So, wiki leaks is getting lots of attention lately. I am all for exposing liars and cheaters for what they are but not quite at the expense of our National Security. On the other hand, all these covert back room deals, money and arms exchanges as closed door bargaining chips should be exposed.

The US Government is so corrupt that many of them right on up to the President should really be in jail for their actions just like any normal citizen would be for the same type of actions.

I only read a little of the list of things done but not too surprised. And people think Michael Moore is off track...HA he is so far on the money than most people want to admit outloud or even to themselves. Many people take what they get to see in the media and public eye at face value when most of it is all just a big bullcrap smokescreen. These guys are criminals all the way.

Next up, they aim to expose all the underhanded dealings of a big bank. Again I am all for it because the US Gov was again in bed with them bailing them out and letting them do what they do to the little people.

Any thoughts on this touchy subject?

[Feanor]

So, wiki leaks is getting lots of attention lately. I am all for exposing liars and cheaters for what they are but not quite at the expense of our National Security. On the other hand, all these covert back room deals, money and arms exchanges as closed door bargaining chips should be exposed.
...

Any thoughts on this touchy subject?

My judgement is pending, however I believe that intenational diplomacy, like national security, can only be properly conducted with a good deal of secrecy. If candid thoughts and opinions cannot be conveyed, or become public knowledge, how will business be done. Basically "deals", bad or good, need to be worked out privately between the deal makers before they're announced: this is reality.

The otherside of the coin is whether there is such a thing as private correspondence, not just Stated Department, Defence Department, or NSA, but yours & mine. Wikileaks, IMO, is guilty of "dealing in stolen property".

BTW, I thing Michael Moore is right about a lot of things, (but not necessarily everything he says).

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I totally agree with you Hyfi, but I think this is very damaging and dangerous for foreign relations. Now that all this information is out, how are other countries going to deal with us now?

Now the bank thing is a different issue. Banks need to be outed big time.

[Hyfi]

I totally agree with you Hyfi, but I think this is very damaging and dangerous for foreign relations. Now that all this information is out, how are other countries going to deal with us now?

Now the bank thing is a different issue. Banks need to be outed big time.

I agree that it is dangerous. My point is that none of this stuff should be happening behind the voters and taxpayers backs. The stuff they do and that has been exposed is criminal and not what the democratic majority of voters would vote for if asked.

These guys cram In God We Trust and all other ethics and religious beliefs down our throats, while they are the biggest sinners around. They all expect us to trust them when they are far from trust worthy.

Along with banks, in queue will also be Energy and Oil companies.

[basite]

The US Government is so corrupt that many of them right on up to the President should really be in jail for their actions just like any normal citizen would be for the same type of actions.

Don't fool yourself though, there is not a single government that is not "corrupt" in some way. Every government has it's "hidden agenda's", and "dirty little (or big) secrets"...
some of the "dirty secrets" are necessary for the "wellbeing" of a state, and some others are kept away from the public to avoid complications in big cases that need research and all...

Having that said:
Wikileaks is bad. Dangerous. While I believe a government should be open, and sharing most information with the citizens, I also believe, that some things, are best to be kept secret.

Just like "you don't hang out the dirty laundry" too for everyone to see. everyone might have their little secrets, some bad, some not that bad, some even good. Important is that these secrets are secrets for a reason. Of course there are limits though.

In this case, not only can the documents damage public relations with other states and countries, but can also be easily be wrongly interpreted, giving them a whole different meaning, or nuance things more than others, making the information potentially dangerous in the wrong hands.

Also, I think that it is especially bad to see that wikileaks only releases US documents. BAD PR, in every sense of the word...

[Hyfi]

Also, I think that it is especially bad to see that wikileaks only releases US documents. BAD PR, in every sense of the word...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange

He is Australian, not from the US so he has no allegiance to USA. He more than likely is being paid by terrorists to further show the world just how Fed up our government (and big business) is and further ruin us as a nation who used to be able to live without fear everyday.

[Smokey]

Having that said:
Wikileaks is bad. Dangerous. While I believe a government should be open, and sharing most information with the citizens, I also believe, that some things, are best to be kept secret.

I don't necessary agree with that statement. If there is secrecy, it means there is no accountability.

Why do you think most governments won't allow freedom of press? Because they don't want any accountability for their action. It is simple as that

[Ajani]

I agree with most (possibly all) of what has been said so far...

Some things should be exposed but others should remain secret... All governments engage in corrupt activity, but some of it is necessary and some is just plain wrong... The tough question is determining what should be made public...

[thekid]

The short term effect of these leaks will probably be minimal. The long term affects may never be known. The biggest damage in all of this is that many foreign governments may feel that the US has security issues and may be hesitant to hold forthright conversations with our government for fear that this information will be leaked which could cause problems for those governments.

Diplomacy like sausage is probably something you don't want to see made. In an ideal world many of these "back-room" deals would not have to be made out of the public view but that is not realistic. These deals often need to be made when government leaders are further ahead of an issue than their constituents back home.

Think of what would have happened if an organization like Wikileaks "leaked" the communications between the US and Britain back in 39-40. Americans were very much isolationists and would have been outraged that the US was considering helping the British in their war against Hitler. It is possible that Roosevelt would not have won re-election in 1940 had they known the extent of our support of China and Britain as they battled Japan and Germany while we maintained an "official" policy of neutrality. This is an extreme example and I am not comparing our current situation to pre-World War II but it does show that diplomacy often does have to occur behind closed curtains for a variety of reasons.

Another issue that some have raised is that Wikileaks could potentially be used to plant disinformation. From what I can see the founder of Wikileaks has a bit of an agenda and is not exactly vetting the information. This IMO means he is susceptible for the possibility of being used as a pawn by foreign intelligent services. Traditional media certainly has its faults but there was a certain standard and responsibility maintained. As the traditional media has eroded and we are beseiged by "talking heads", bloggers and sites like Wikileaks the possibility of people being swayed solely by POV and not engage in critical thinking is becoming more of a reality.

[Geoffcin]

Tempest in a teapot. This stuff is trivial crap compared to the last bunch of papers outlining how the US deceived it's citizens as to what they were up to (and how poorly it's going) in Afghanistan.

Really, diplomacy is a seedy and backstabbing business and everyone who is involved in it knows that. That the Saudi's wanted the Iranian leaders killed, and that Russia is run by mobsters?.....DUH! Tell us something we don't know!!

[Feanor]

Tempest in a teapot. This stuff is trivial crap compared to the last bunch of papers outlining how the US deceived it's citizens as to what they were up to (and how poorly it's going) in Afghanistan.

Really, diplomacy is a seedy and backstabbing business and everyone who is involved in it knows that. That the Saudi's wanted the Iranian leaders killed, and that Russia is run by mobsters?.....DUH! Tell us something we don't know!!

It's undoubtedly true that the governments & agencies mentioned in these documents have long since guessed the content. The real problem is the now-public content can be hyped by the parties to suit their propaganda agendas, or on the other hand, that the info can be used against them by their opponents.

So for example, it is well-know that Pakistan is a flacky ally for the US. Pakistanis feel they must, for practical and religious reasons, hedging their bets that the Taliban might "win" in Afghanistan. Further, the Pakistan government & military cannot take draconian measures against the Taliban and Islamist tribal leaders because Islamism and anti-Americanism are endemic in the whole country, and the backlash would totally counterproductive. Thus is it a big public embarrassment for the President to be quoted as saying he "doesn't really care" that the the US uses drones against militant leaders.

[RGA]

I don't really buy into most of the "national defense" arguments because that just gives government a way to conduct themselves as a dictatorship while waving the freedom flag in people's face.

This is not much different than a whistleblower who photocopies private documents - like in the Pinto case - where Ford brass deliberately let people die to save a couple of bucks.

And Ford was allowed to stay in business paid the fines and really nothing happened to those decision makers for essentially committing murder or at least manslaughter. And like Ford the people in the private documents doing bad things will likely get a slap on the wrist - wiki leaks will probably get closed (I have yet to be able access it). Iran doesn't trust or like America and nothing put out there will surprise them.

America is morally and ethically bankrupt nation and totally corrupt. That came to a head in Florida with hanging Chads, People on the rolls being dropped, nepotism (gee who was governor of the state in question), who funds the political parties, and if you don't do what big pharma, big oil want you will likely not see your next birthday. America business/government (which is the same thing) is totally corrupt - the only difference is they're better at stealing and killing without getting caught or being as obvious as third world nations. Wiki-leaks simply shows that they're just as corrupt but it's not so patently blatant. 30% of the population is socio-pathic according to psychological studies. Most of them go into big business and government so they can satisfy their hunger for power/greed. The population to them is nothing more than the equivalent of chickens on an assembly line awaiting the hatchet. Quite literally, their fellow man is nothing more than cattle to profit on. A capitalistic world is the perfect world for them to thrive.

The Canadian government is looking bad here as well. A guy actually puts forth the "truth" for good or ill, illegally attained or not, the fact is rather than address the "truth" of the documents everyone wants to go after the guy who attained the documents and focus blame on him rather than to go after the socio-paths, psycho-paths in charge. http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/201...s-assange.html on the flip side it's nice to know that Flannagan is a Fascist and with any luck we can root out these cancers from our public office.

[Feanor]

I don't really buy into most of the "national defense" arguments because that just gives government a way to conduct themselves as a dictatorship while waving the freedom flag in people's face.

This is not much different than a whistleblower who photocopies private documents - like in the Pinto case - where Ford brass deliberately let people die to save a couple of bucks.

And Ford was allowed to stay in business paid the fines and really nothing happened to those decision makers for essentially committing murder or at least manslaughter. And like Ford the people in the private documents doing bad things will likely get a slap on the wrist - wiki leaks will probably get closed (I have yet to be able access it). Iran doesn't trust or like America and nothing put out there will surprise them.

America is morally and ethically bankrupt nation and totally corrupt. That came to a head in Florida with hanging Chads, People on the rolls being dropped, nepotism (gee who was governor of the state in question), who funds the political parties, and if you don't do what big pharma, big oil want you will likely not see your next birthday. America business/government (which is the same thing) is totally corrupt - the only difference is they're better at stealing and killing without getting caught or being as obvious as third world nations. Wiki-leaks simply shows that they're just as corrupt but it's not so patently blatant. 30% of the population is socio-pathic according to psychological studies. Most of them go into big business and government so they can satisfy their hunger for power/greed. The population to them is nothing more than the equivalent of chickens on an assembly line awaiting the hatchet. Quite literally, their fellow man is nothing more than cattle to profit on. A capitalistic world is the perfect world for them to thrive.

The Canadian government is looking bad here as well. A guy actually puts forth the "truth" for good or ill, illegally attained or not, the fact is rather than address the "truth" of the documents everyone wants to go after the guy who attained the documents and focus blame on him rather than to go after the socio-paths, psycho-paths in charge. http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/12/01/flanagan-wikileaks-assange.html on the flip side it's nice to know that Flannagan is a Fascist and with any luck we can root out these cancers from our public office.

It's definitely satisfying to rant once in a while -- at least that's my experience.

[RGA]

It's definitely satisfying to rant once in a while -- at least that's my experience.

Well I can't just rave all the time.

[Hyfi]

I don't really buy into most of the "national defense" arguments because that just gives government a way to conduct themselves as a dictatorship while waving the freedom flag in people's face.

I don't necessary agree with that statement. If there is secrecy, it means there is no accountability.

Why do you think most governments won't allow freedom of press? Because they don't want any accountability for their action. It is simple as that

Exactly.

The US gov. acts all righteous and better than everyone else, but behind closed doors they do the same immoral, unethical, and at times criminal acts as all the other whacked out countries.

[thekid]

I think some people here are confusing what is actually in the Wikleak documents with their perception of or position on US foreign policy. That is a separate issue.

These documents were apparently from a data dump (think of it as someone cleaning out their deleted e-mails ) and they do not give any real proof of clandestine government activity, cover-ups or conspiracies. Yes, they are from government officials but to read more into them would be the equivalent of someone going through your e-mail at work and then saying that your e-mails reflect the positions and policies of your company.

As some have said here there is really nothing new here in many ways regarding the information that was released. But revealing publicly that several Arab nations are concerned about the Iranian nuclear program and would like something to be done about Iran creates more problems than it solves. No public interest was served or protected from leaking this information. It was done by Assange's own admission because he really just likes to pi** some governments off and embarass them.

[winston]

So, wiki leaks is getting lots of attention lately. I am all for exposing liars and cheaters for what they are but not quite at the expense of our National Security. On the other hand, all these covert back room deals, money and arms exchanges as closed door bargaining chips should be exposed.

The US Government is so corrupt that many of them right on up to the President should really be in jail for their actions just like any normal citizen would be for the same type of actions.

I only read a little of the list of things done but not too surprised. And people think Michael Moore is off track...HA he is so far on the money than most people want to admit outloud or even to themselves. Many people take what they get to see in the media and public eye at face value when most of it is all just a big bullcrap smokescreen. These guys are criminals all the way.

Next up, they aim to expose all the underhanded dealings of a big bank. Again I am all for it because the US Gov was again in bed with them bailing them out and letting them do what they do to the little people.

Any thoughts on this touchy subject?

yes Hifi, this is a "catch 22" for Americans, as one maybe sounding unpatriotic or conceited "which ever way one sees this Wiki leaks thingy, that said, sometimes we cant believe every thing that we read "as the saying goes"!!

but what do we learn from Robert Bear's Book "See No Evil," ?? "Syriana" the movie, "George Clooney & Matt Damon" just to name a few sign-es on the wall, and lets not forget "the "Water Gate".....