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  1. #1
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    When is it appropriate to intervene?

    About a year ago, a young family moved into the house next door. The parents are, in my estimation, in their late 20's. They have a 7-yr-old son and a 2.5-yr-old daughter. They seemed like a nice enough family. They were friendly, kind, pretty quiet, and the kids were polite. They even invited us over to share in their daughter's birthday cake last summer (an invitation which we declined).

    If we had one complaint about them, it was that the father would go sit in their garage and smoke weed...a lot. But as long as they were quiet and respectful neighbours, it was their business and we didn't care.

    About six months ago something changed. We're not sure exactly, but we think that Dad lost his job. Anyway, we started to hear him yelling at his son almost every night. This wasn't just yelling at a kid for doing something wrong, this was 20 minute rages of profanity. The kind of yelling that would have had me cowering in a corner.

    I should mention that we live in a townhouse with thin walls, so it's not hard to hear what goes on in your neighbours homes.

    Mom would occasionally apologize to us for the yelling. She explained that they were having "some behavoural issues" with their son. No freakin' kidding! If someone were treating me the way their son was being treated, I'd act out too!

    Yesterday, the two parents really got into it with each other. Without going into too much detail, it sounded like it was getting physical. But not one sided...she was holding her own. She was trying to throw him out. He wouldn't leave. So then she threatened to leave with the kids and he was holding her back. I don't believe that he ever hit her. I only heard her ask him to let go of her. He said something about her punching him in the stomach. The 2.5-yr-old girl was crying and screaming so hard that my heart was breaking for her. The son escaped outside where he played ball-hockey by himself.

    I've never heard the parents fight like that before. I've only heard Dad yell at the kids and Mom stand up to him to protect her kids. They argue about the usual household/family stuff, but nothing really major.

    Anyway, twice during their fight, I picked up the phone to call the police. It was that bad. And twice I put the phone down not knowing whether it was the right thing to do.

    I called my husband at work and his advice was to leave things alone and let them fight it out unless I thought that the kids were being hurt. A few minutes later, things quieted down and we haven't heard a peep from their house since.

    I didn't sleep at all last night. All I could think about was these kids.

    I know that this guy is verballing abusing his kids. And I know that verbal abuse can be as bad, or worse, than physical abuse. If I thought that he was hitting the kids, I wouldn't hesitate to call the cops. But should I call them about this verbal abuse? There's a part of me that just wants to give them the benefit of the doubt. That perhaps this young father is just overwhelmed and taking out his fear/anger/frustration on his family but that things will get better. That doesn't excuse his behavour, but could I make things worse if I intervened?

    Because of the proximity of our homes, there's no way that I could involve the police without them knowing that it was me.

    Does anyone have any sort of experience with this type of situation? It's really eating me up. I want to help these kids, but I'm just not sure how. Or, do I just let it go this time and only get involved if it happens again?
    Last edited by ForeverAutumn; 04-10-2007 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I would report the situation to any services you have like childrens' protective services. They can meet with the children and assess the harm done to the children. They can help with counseling for children and help the parents be aware of what they are doing. I would only call the police if you hear physical harm being done.

    Children who grow up in abusive situations sometimes become abusers or lock into a passive role where they will continue to be abused much of their life. If the father has continually verbally abused the mother he may have destroyed her self esteem. She may want to leave but now feels like she could not. These problems are so cyclical that without help the children may pass this on to their children.

    Verbal abuse is soul destroying. The body can heal from the physical but the psyche will need years. The messages the children hear will repaly in their minds for years. They may end up believing the verbal assaults and act accordingly. They are not receiving the nurturing support they need to grow up healthy, happy and the skills to be successful.

    Please do what you can for the children but keep yourself safe.
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Cops are very unlikely to do anything about a guy yelling at his kid, no matter how bad it is.

    But, you should find out your state social services agency and give them a call. I don't know where you live, but most states are required to send an inverstigator out for any calls within a certain period of time. Now, social workers are busy and often overloaded with cases of people that are seriously physically abusing their kids, so how high a priority a case like that would be is going to depend a lot on how busy your local office is and what other kinds of problems thay are used to dealing with. It could be anything to an office in an area without many problems that would really step in and take action (often first by counseling and parent education before getting punitive as long as no physical harm is being done) to a place where workers are so overloaded with people doing truly horrific things to their children that something like verbal abuse takes a back seat. But, either way, by making the call, you at least get someone's attention and if things do escalate, building a track record of continual and escalating abuse will shine more of a light on this family as time goes by.

  4. #4
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    It's been 48 hours and we haven't heard as much as a peep from next door. Her van has been in and out of the driveway, but we haven't seen his truck. And I don't think that their garbage was put out yesterday. So he may be gone.

    Their son plays outside a lot. I've decided to approach him at the next opportunity and tell him that I could hear the fight and ask him if he needs help. I'm sure that he'll say no. I'm going to tell him that if he ever does need help, he can come to me. I want him to know that there's an adult on his side.

    I've also considered going to his school and making them aware of his home situation so that they can keep an eye out for signs of abuse. But first I want to find out if his Dad is still around or not.

    In the meantime, I'm going to investigate what my options are if I hear Dad's abuse again. And I'll find out who to contact and what they would do about it.

    The thing is, I've seen the father be a loving Dad and spend quality time with the kid. If someone had told me, when they moved in, that all of this would be going on I would not have believed it. If he'd been this abusive from the start, I would have done something about it a long time ago. It's because he wasn't like this before that I'm confused and so hesitant to do anything. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm really hoping that the fight was the breaking point and that things will get better.

    Thanks for your help. If anyone else has any advice, I'd love to hear it.

  5. #5
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    Call the police if you hear another thing. These are two stories that I have to listen to every day here in the DC area:

    4 Children found dead, father hung himself
    ...and I can't find it right now, but there's another one where the husband called the wife to let her know that he was going to hurt the kids, and then hung them, and then killed himself.

    You can't react fast enough when things get to this level, so the only way to deal with it is to anticipate it. If they give you crap about calling the police, just say you didn't want them to end up doing anything rash like these stories, and too bad. Then quit fighting and seek counseling.

    You need to move out of that townhouse, ma'am.
    Eschew fascism.
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  6. #6
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    It's pretty obvious that the kids are being harmed. Please provide help as soon as you can.

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  7. #7
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    FA, I bounced this off my mother-in-law - she's a social worker that deals with families and children mostly in cases like these. She suggests the best thing you can do is Call the Ministry of Community and Social Services and talk to someone about what your options are. Cases with earlier intervention have the best chance of ending in a positive manner. They'll give you good advice and tell you what they would do if they were to become involved, answer your questions better than most of us likely, and at least allow you to make a fully informed decision.
    Usually there's contact made and a warning given to the parents in situations like these, then counselling with the mother. She's the critical cog here, I would suggest talking to her instead of the child. They won't rush in without signs of phsyical abuse and tear the family apart at first. Young parents get a bit of a scare put into them when someone from social services offers to help them deal with their anger towards their children, and that can sometimes be enough. Either the parents get help and smarten up, or the child gets the help it needs. It's better than nothing either way. At least they'll be aware that they're not going unnoticed.

  8. #8
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    I just thought that I would give you all an update.

    Kex, your advice was great and I have looked up the phone number and I will call them to inquire about how they would handle the situation. Please thank your Mother-in-law for me.

    The situation itself has greatly improved. I have not heard the father raise his voice at all since the blowout last week. He and his son were outside playing when I got home from work on Friday and the boy was having a great time and did not appear to be at all afraid of his dad. So far, it seems like things are back to the way that they were when the family first moved in.

    My husband and I are hopeful that the fight between the parents last week was enough to be a reality check for this guy and realize how close he was to losing his family over his behaviour, and that now he'll smarten up.

    We are still keeping a very, very close eye on this family and at the first sign that trouble is starting up again, I will act. I have to do what's in the best interests of the kids, regardles of whether I'm afraid of repercussions from the parents. They can stand up for themselves, the kids can't.

    But for now, at least, everything appears peaceful again. And, more importantly, the kids look happy.

  9. #9
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    love thy neighbor...

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    I just thought that I would give you all an update.

    Kex, your advice was great and I have looked up the phone number and I will call them to inquire about how they would handle the situation. Please thank your Mother-in-law for me.

    The situation itself has greatly improved. I have not heard the father raise his voice at all since the blowout last week. He and his son were outside playing when I got home from work on Friday and the boy was having a great time and did not appear to be at all afraid of his dad. So far, it seems like things are back to the way that they were when the family first moved in.

    My husband and I are hopeful that the fight between the parents last week was enough to be a reality check for this guy and realize how close he was to losing his family over his behaviour, and that now he'll smarten up.

    We are still keeping a very, very close eye on this family and at the first sign that trouble is starting up again, I will act. I have to do what's in the best interests of the kids, regardles of whether I'm afraid of repercussions from the parents. They can stand up for themselves, the kids can't.

    But for now, at least, everything appears peaceful again. And, more importantly, the kids look happy.

    It sounds like you are being a very thoughtful and concerned neighbor and while it might 'seem' at times that you are overstepping boundaries, I think that we should all be more aware of issues that are happening to those around us. This world has become so isolated and I think it would be important to try and make a connection with this family and give them as much care as you can as a neighbor. By doing so, you have established a bit of a relationship with them, which can lead to trust and perhaps they might confide in you a bit more about what is going on with their family. I think that by doing so you might ease some of their stress if they know that someone nearby is there and someone that authentically cares about them.

    Hope you can work out something.

  10. #10
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    Good to hear.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevef22
    you guys are crackheads.
    I remain,
    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  11. #11
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    It seems to me that if children suffer from adult behavior, then it is worth contacting specialists who will find out exactly what is happening in this family.

  12. #12
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    My friend, there is no need for you to wait for another incident. You need to ask for help from a family lawyer. They've been solving these problems all the time. Here is the good one that I've known for a while https://www.shtarklaw.com/services/family-law/

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