What should we do in Iraq?

[PPG]

Your vote, please (and comments if so inclined).

[Bryan]

I won't vote but I think we should stay and finish the job. Now we are trying to change a society and that is something which will never happen overnight. This job will be completed several years down the road.

[piece-it pete]

Bryan,

Agreed. Pull out now or before the job is through & we can forget about respect worldwide. The UN is worthless anyway.

Pete

[JSE]

I also agree we need to stay there and see it through to the end. However, I actually would like to see Bush take a harder approach. I don't think he has been hard enough. If we want to put an end to the terrorist element in Iraq, we can. Ok, maybe not completely eliminate it, but we could really crush it. I just takes some hard decisions and force. With the election approaching, I am not sure if Bush is willing to do what it takes right now. I wish he would. I actually think this would help everyone, including his future as President.

JSE

[woodman]

Pete:
What respect? Don't look now, but we simply don't have ANY respect as far as I can tell! Thanks to our idiot Prez, the entire rest of the world have lost whatever respect they DID have for us! He's an embarassment - plain and simple.

JSE:
What future as Prez? I don't think that he has any such thing (fortunately for all of us). It would appear that his blundering approaches to foreign policy are beginning to catch up with him, and a sufficient number of the American constituency are beginning to see what an unmitigated disaster he's been, and will go to the polls come November and vote his idiotic ass out of the WhiteHouse (before he totally destrys everything we hold dear)!

[JSE]

JSE:
What future as Prez? I don't think that he has any such thing (fortunately for all of us). It would appear that his blundering approaches to foreign policy are beginning to catch up with him, and a sufficient number of the American constituency are beginning to see what an unmitigated disaster he's been, and will go to the polls come November and vote his idiotic ass out of the WhiteHouse (before he totally destrys everything we hold dear)!

I'm not so sure of that. I like Bush. Could he be better? Sure, I can think of a lot of things he could do better. However, yes he may be a little unpopular right now but what's the alternative. Kerry? I doubt it. There may be a lot of people who are not happy with him right now and don't approve of the job he is doing but that does not mean they won't vote for him in November with Kerry as the alternative. Like many times before, this will come down to the lesser of two evils in many people's eyes/minds.

JSE

[markw]

After seeing what's in that country and the problems that have always been there, I honestly don't think Saddam was any worse than he had to be. Those people are animals. Clean him up and put him back in control with whomever he chooses to back him. ...and give him all the weapons he needs in exchange for oil.

[Smokey]

The problem with Iraq really go back to 1920s when Iraq and other countries surrounding it such as Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Israel, Lebanon were created on a drawing board by British when Ottoman Empire collapsed. British divided the land without any regards to ethnicty or identity of local tribes and poeple, and put up crappy government to manage those countries. British did not do their homework. That is why we have so much instability in that region. And having oil made the matter worse.

Contrary to belief, terrorist will not end in Iraq. Terrorist issue and end of it lay at the door step of Israel and Palestine issue. If anybody thinks that terrorist issue will be solved once Iraq is contained is sadly mistaken and don't know about the depth of issues surrounding that region.

[karl k]

Your vote, please (and comments if so inclined).

clarification, I choose "Ride it out". Once again, needed to be more clear on def's! I do believe that although the means are not always agreeable to me, the goal is the same. While we are over there, we should maintain a fair amount of control over strategy(militarily speaking) and who to target for action, I do believe also in the idea of Iraqi counsel and political handling locally of how best to handle the action based on customs and population. Now having said that, since the stability is "fluid" at best, my opinion could change tomorrow, and not even be based on our handling of the "plan". But if Kerry DOES have a better plan, I believe he should have our attention and consideration.(including the Presidents) I always try to reserve myself the option of changing my mind and whether someone else should his as well. I would also say that after things somewhat stabilize, we should reassess the "next move". We have an obligation to the Iraqis and the Afghanis and we better damn well make it right! After we clean up after ourselves, let's see where we're at and go from there.(no matter whose prez)

[PPG]

What future as Prez? I don't think that he has any such thing (fortunately for all of us). It would appear that his blundering approaches to foreign policy are beginning to catch up with him, and a sufficient number of the American constituency are beginning to see what an unmitigated disaster he's been, and will go to the polls come November and vote his idiotic ass out of the WhiteHouse (before he totally destrys everything we hold dear)!

What he said.

[jeskibuff]

blah blah blah..It would appear that his blundering approaches to foreign policy are beginning to catch up with him, and a sufficient number of the American constituency are beginning to see what an unmitigated disaster he's been, and will go to the polls come November and vote his idiotic ass out of the WhiteHouse (before he totally destrys everything we hold dear)!...blah blah blah

Yeah, right...

We heard the same kind of talk just months ago how Bush was causing every economic calamity to befall on our nation. His tax cuts would never work and we'd all be unemployed within the year!

Bush's words then are Bush's words now: Stay the course!

Some people just can't see the forest through the trees. The regenerated economy and lower unemployment SHOULD have given them a reality check, but instead of admitting that they were wrong, they just choose to focus on a different matter...the probleme du jour. All the hullaballoo about "missing WMD and no connection of Iraq to Al-Qaeda" is also starting to fall apart. What will people like Woodman find to complain about when ALL their preconceptions are exposed for the fallacies that they are? Oh, they'll ALWAYS find something to complain about, as that's the only thing they're experts at!

But if Kerry DOES have a better plan, I believe he should have our attention and consideration.(including the Presidents) I always try to reserve myself the option of changing my mind and whether someone else should his as well.

Like a snake oil salesman, Kerry has a plan for everything, depending on who he's talking to.

Here's what he told the Arab American Institute last year, regarding the wall that Israel is building:
""I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government's decision to build the barrier off of the Green Line – cutting deep into Palestinian areas. We don't need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israelis' security over the long term, increase the hardships to the Palestinian people, and make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder."

Here's what he told New Yorkers, just before the primary there:
"Israel's security fence is a legitimate act of self defense. No nation can stand by while its children are blown up at pizza parlors and on buses. While President Bush is rightly discussing with Israel the exact route of the fence to minimize the hardship it causes innocent Palestinians, Israel has a right and a duty to defend its citizens. The fence only exists in response to the wave of terror attacks against Israel."

You have to be clueless if you didn't know that New York has a large Jewish voting block!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=37358

So, if you don't like Kerry's plan, just listen to him a little longer and he should talk about his plan B which is diametrically opposite to his plan A. How could ANYONE trust such an openly two-faced liar?

[jeskibuff]

After seeing what's in that country and the problems that have always been there, I honestly don't think Saddam was any worse than he had to be. Those people are animals. Clean him up and put him back in control with whomever he chooses to back him. ...and give him all the weapons he needs in exchange for oil.

The people in Iraq aren't all animals, as if just being born there makes you a terrorist. You're just seeing the evidence of the violent ones right now, as those are the ones that make the news. And Saddam helped to create those violent ones, as 30 years of brutal dictatorship will necessitate that someone interested in surviving either has to become near invisible or join in with the regime. Factor in fundamentalist Islam, and you've got HUGE problems that can't be rectified easily.

You're putting the cart before the horse when you say that Saddam's tactics were necessary to control a population that is "naturally inclined to be violent".

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by markw
After seeing what's in that country and the problems that have always been there, I honestly don't think Saddam was any worse than he had to be. Those people are animals. Clean him up and put him back in control with whomever he chooses to back him. ...and give him all the weapons he needs in exchange for oil.

Of course, you are assuming Saddam wasn't the reason why those people were animals and assuming they were animals to begin with. One must wonder what they would be like if they were born and raised elsewhere. Would they had acted the same way? Odds are no. Therefore it was their environment. All they had known was a dictatorship. The immediate reaction to freedom is to go out and celebrate then get angry at those who set you free because they are there. You do not realize they are there to prevent anarchy or civil war. You do not think they are there to simply keep the peace and will leave. All they hear about is the 'evil United States'. What we historically do is do the job that is needed, in this case get rid of Saddam, put in a new government, in this case one similar to our own, rebuild the country (being done concurrently with the new government), and then getting out when they are up on their feet. We will be there to help and assist them later on if needed but generally will do a hands off approach. They think they are ready now yet do not see the big picture. We are retraining their minds to be able to handle their new government. We are changing their way of life and their society. This is something which can never occur overnight. Are they animals? No. Far from it. They just need some TLC coupled with loving discipline. The only healer now is time.

[piece-it pete]

Pete:
What respect? Don't look now, but we simply don't have ANY respect as far as I can tell! Thanks to our idiot Prez, the entire rest of the world have lost whatever respect they DID have for us! He's an embarassment - plain and simple.

Woodman,

I should be more specific.

I don't care what the vast majority of the ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses worldwide think of us. It would be nice to be liked, but......

The fact is that our invasion of Iraq was a military masterpiece that will go down in history. This invasion has certainly been duly noted by the folks in power everywhere, both friends and enemies. Our military might - and prowess - has shocked the world and reminded them: DO NOT mess with us. THIS is the respect I'm talking about, the kind of respect that bad guys understand, that would not have happened with someone like Gore or Kerry in power.

Pete

[woodman]

Woodman,

I should be more specific.

I don't care what the vast majority of the ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses worldwide think of us. It would be nice to be liked, but......

The fact is that our invasion of Iraq was a military masterpiece that will go down in history. This invasion has certainly been duly noted by the folks in power everywhere, both friends and enemies. Our military might - and prowess - has shocked the world and reminded them: DO NOT mess with us. THIS is the respect I'm talking about, the kind of respect that bad guys understand, that would not have happened with someone like Gore or Kerry in power.

Pete

Your being specific only goes to show that you cannot differentiate the vast difference between respect and fear. How can someone who writes seemingly intelligent posts such as yourself, fail to see the difference between those two concepts? You say that you don't care what the rest of the world thinks of us ... as long as they FEAR us, we're "good to go"? Sorry, Pete - that attitude is NOT what America is (or always has been) all about. Saddam was a classic example of ruling by fear ... if we follow that same paradigm, we're not one whit better than him. Is that what you'd choose for America? I wouldn't think so. That's NOT what many of our most respected military men (Powell, Zinni, Clark, et al) would've chosen for us, either. Plus the fact that we're now expecting further attacks from Al Queda this summer would seem to indicate that the message of fear for our military might has not been received by them, doesn't it?

Plus your characterization of the rest of the world as ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses is an attitude that CREATES the problem rather than doing anything whatsoever to solve it.

Further, you're quite right when you say that our display of military might would NOT have happened with either Gore or Kerry in the White House ... both of them are intelligent enough to see that our enemy is NOT the nation of Iraq (or any other "nation" either), but is in fact Al Queda which has no "nationality" - their members come from probably every nation on the planet - and they cannot be fought with bombers, tanks, Humvees, and 135,000 uniformed troops! If Dubya cannot differntiate the difference, then he is too friggin' STOOOOOOOPID to be President. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see? The man (and I use that word rather loosely) is an incompetent boob, and has no business sitting in the Oval Office ... he sure wasn't elected by the people, he was manipulated into office by the unscrupulous Bush family and the Republican Dirty Tricks squad. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see?

[jeskibuff]

The man (and I use that word rather loosely) is an incompetent boob, and has no business sitting in the Oval Office ... he wasn't elected by the people, he was manipulated into office by the unscrupulous Bush family and the Republican Dirty Tricks squad. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see?

I dunno.

Maybe because we're not ingesting mass quantities of hallucinatory drugs like you are, Woodman?

Watch out for that pink elephant!

[woodman]

I dunno.

Maybe because we're not ingesting mass quantities of hallucinatory drugs like you are, Woodman?

Watch out for that pink elephant!

No, jeski ... it's not me that ingested too many hallucinogenic drugs. It was Dubya! That's a big part of the problem. His brain (what there once was of it) has already been nearly destroyed by too many drugs and alcohol. That's why it's just about impossible for him to speak in public without a teleprompter ... and damned difficult even WITH the teleprompter in place!

Wake up, you guys and see this boob for what he is (and ISN'T).

[Justlisten2]

Your being specific only goes to show that you cannot differentiate the vast difference between respect and fear. Plus your characterization of the rest of the world as ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses is an attitude that CREATES the problem rather than doing anything whatsoever to solve it.

Further, you're quite right when you say that our display of military might would NOT have happened with either Gore or Kerry in the White House ... both of them are intelligent enough to see that our enemy is NOT the nation of Iraq (or any other "nation" either), but is in fact Al Queda which has no "nationality" - their members come from probably every nation on the planet - and they cannot be fought with bombers, tanks, Humvees, and 135,000 uniformed troops! If Dubya cannot differntiate the difference, then he is too friggin' STOOOOOOOPID to be President. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see? The man (and I use that word rather loosely) is an incompetent boob, and has no business sitting in the Oval Office ... he wasn't elected by the people, he was manipulated into office by the unscrupulous Bush family and the Republican Dirty Tricks squad. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see?

..it's like the cable debates all over again, right woodman? Bush followers tend to be:

A) Wealthy
B) NRA members
C) Pro-Life advocates
D) War-mongerers

They can't 'see' it because they are Bush followers. Just like any follower of Nordost Valhalla cables believes all cables sound different. When you believe in something, you tend to turn a blind eye to facts, and become more susceptible to the propaganda machine.

BTW, woodman, have you noticed how Dubya's 'Stay the course' speech sounds vaguely familiar with his daddy's? I'm just waiting for him to say 'a thousand points of light', ROTFLMAO.
Also, have you noticed how the Bush/Cheney regime is taking care of the oil industry (gas prices)? So that even if he loses in November, their family and friends will be set for life. I can see the E! special now... It's good to be George W. Bush.

[Resident Loser]

"...Bush followers tend to be:

A) Wealthy
B) NRA members
C) Pro-Life advocates
D) War-mongerers..."

A) I'm not...just a wage slave who wants to keep as much of it as possible...
B) I'm not...but they'll come a time when all the sleeper cells pop out of their dung-heaps and the folks with arms may turn out to be the modern day equivalent of the minutemen...
C) I'm not...but abortion is not a viable alternative to self control or birth-control...
D) I'm not...but we should pursue our goals and probably get tougher...it seems to be the only thing some folks understand...

And FYI, we wouldn't be in this mess if the Kennedy administration hadn't decided to sell Hawk missles to Israel in contradiction of prior policies in dealing with what we previously regarded as a Zionist state...

And what did Bubba do to head off 9/11? They didn't plan this thing over cookies and milk on the tenth...What would Gore have done if he was prez and got this $h!t dumped on him?...and if Kerry(or anyone else for that matter) has some answers, in the national interest, let them put partisan politics aside. Why not share their "solutions" with the current admin now, why are they waiting for their turn in the barrel?...sorta reminds me of the myth and hype of "break-in" or "burn-in"...oh, just wait 'til we're in office and we'll make things right again! Bu!!$h!t...pure and simple.

jimHJJ(...wire is wire...)

[jeskibuff]

They can't 'see' it because they are Bush followers. Just like any follower of Nordost Valhalla cables believes all cables sound different. When you believe in something, you tend to turn a blind eye to facts, and become more susceptible to the propaganda machine.

We can't see it because it just doesn't exist!

The rabid left-wingers like to make up stuff and repeat it often enough for other people to start believing it's true.

The "Bush lies" thing, for instance: When we entered Iraq, the rabid left-wingers complained that WMD wasn't scattered across the desert floor, to be picked up by our troops as if on a housekeeping mission. For almost a year, we've heard the "Bush lies" mantra sung by liberal idiots. Now that Sarin and mustard gas evidence is turning up, I don't expect to hear any retractions by the idiots, only excuses.

I'll repeat the economy thing again, because it's apparent you didn't read it the first time around. The left-wing idiots proclaimed that Bush was driving America's economy into the ground with his tax cuts. "They will never work, and millions have lost their jobs because of Bush", you said. We conservatives just sat back and said "give it time to work". Well, as evidenced by the economy that recovered from the devastation of Clinton's recession, the 9/11 attacks, the sniper and anthrax attacks, the corporate scandals and countless other harmful hurdles, Bush got it right.

Those of us who see the reality of an enemy deadset on destroying our freedoms and our prosperity also see the Bush administration taking the best possible path to preserve those freedoms. The left-wing idiots try to marginalize that threat, believing that a path of appeasement is the one to follow. Left-wing idiots will get us all killed.

Bush has remained consistent since day one. Left-wing idiots like Gore, Kerry and Dean have been reliably INCONSISTENT. If Bush's brain is fried because of past alcohol and drug abuse, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME! WHY?? Because Bush's "fried-out" brain is directing his administration to do the right things in the long-term best interest of this country. Bush's "fried-out" brain is making better decisions than left-wing brains that supposedly have never been abused. And better decisions are what count where the rubber meets the road!

Propaganda machine? The left-wing idiots rely on propagandists like Michael Mooron and Democratic Underground. There, you'll find instances of easily proven lies and conspiracy theories. Good grief...you've got a presidential candidate who says one thing to one party and another thing to their opposition. You NEED propaganda to circumvent THAT obvious flaw!

[piece-it pete]

Your being specific only goes to show that you cannot differentiate the vast difference between respect and fear. Plus your characterization of the rest of the world as ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses is an attitude that CREATES the problem rather than doing anything whatsoever to solve it.

Further, you're quite right when you say that our display of military might would NOT have happened with either Gore or Kerry in the White House ... both of them are intelligent enough to see that our enemy is NOT the nation of Iraq (or any other "nation" either), but is in fact Al Queda which has no "nationality" - their members come from probably every nation on the planet - and they cannot be fought with bombers, tanks, Humvees, and 135,000 uniformed troops! If Dubya cannot differntiate the difference, then he is too friggin' STOOOOOOOPID to be President. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see? The man (and I use that word rather loosely) is an incompetent boob, and has no business sitting in the Oval Office ... he wasn't elected by the people, he was manipulated into office by the unscrupulous Bush family and the Republican Dirty Tricks squad. Why oh why is that so difficult for all of you Bush-worshippers to see?

Woodman,

Being a Christian, it's highly unlikely you'll find me worshipping GWB - although many would believe it !

I agree with about 90% of his agenda, everything except the hidden one - you know, the one where he stomps out everyones rights & gives all the money to the rich lol!!

No but seriously folks.......

My comment about the "ideologically indoctrinated unwashed masses" is somewhat inaccurate. Many who live in the European-style Socialist countries do bathe. Heck maybe even some elsewhere. Gaahhhh! I'm doing it again!! It's just that it's almost 3 day weekend time & I'm in a very good mood. And I'm sure the good European & Canadian posters here do bathe. Please don't be offended. I'd like to hear some USA jokes if you've got them!

The comment in question is largely true and not meant to be offensive. But remember, the rest of the world does NOT have the real freedom we do and as such is NOT qualified to tell us what is right & wrong, for us. WE built this incredibly successful system, we will decide how we will best protect it. We welcome input but reserve decisionmaking.

When it comes to the bad guys, I could care less about respect. They have none. Fear works very well for me. They should be afraid - we will kill them.

Iraq, we've been around & around & we will believe our beliefs. Time will show. But I'd like to know how a leftie Democrat will have freedom of action militarily, given his core supporters. They will scream bloody murder. And most of the military considers Kerry a flag-burner.

Nations might not be the enemy, but they can be a enemy. Giving support & comfort to our enemies makes that entity our enemy. You are for us or against us.

And if GWB is such an idiot why isn't Gore in office? Why does the GOP control Congress? Oh yeah, it was rigged (but not Congress? Somehow?). But the "fix" wouldn't have worked if the race wasn't so close! So Gore (and by default the whole Dem party, see Congress) was still not as sharp as the Moron-in-Chief, GWB.

A toast from the other side of the isle,

Pete

[oakley#36]

We can't see it because it just doesn't exist!

The rabid left-wingers like to make up stuff and repeat it often enough for other people to start believing it's true.

The "Bush lies" thing, for instance: When we entered Iraq, the rabid left-wingers complained that WMD wasn't scattered across the desert floor, to be picked up by our troops as if on a housekeeping mission. For almost a year, we've heard the "Bush lies" mantra sung by liberal idiots. Now that Sarin and mustard gas evidence is turning up, I don't expect to hear any retractions by the idiots, only excuses.

I'll repeat the economy thing again, because it's apparent you didn't read it the first time around. The left-wing idiots proclaimed that Bush was driving America's economy into the ground with his tax cuts. "They will never work, and millions have lost their jobs because of Bush", you said. We conservatives just sat back and said "give it time to work". Well, as evidenced by the economy that recovered from the devastation of Clinton's recession, the 9/11 attacks, the sniper and anthrax attacks, the corporate scandals and countless other harmful hurdles, Bush got it right.

Those of us who see the reality of an enemy deadset on destroying our freedoms and our prosperity also see the Bush administration taking the best possible path to preserve those freedoms. The left-wing idiots try to marginalize that threat, believing that a path of appeasement is the one to follow. Left-wing idiots will get us all killed.

Bush has remained consistent since day one. Left-wing idiots like Gore, Kerry and Dean have been reliably INCONSISTENT. If Bush's brain is fried because of past alcohol and drug abuse, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME! WHY?? Because Bush's "fried-out" brain is directing his administration to do the right things in the long-term best interest of this country. Bush's "fried-out" brain is making better decisions than left-wing brains that supposedly have never been abused. And better decisions are what count where the rubber meets the road!

Propaganda machine? The left-wing idiots rely on propagandists like Michael Mooron and Democratic Underground. There, you'll find instances of easily proven lies and conspiracy theories. Good grief...you've got a presidential candidate who says one thing to one party and another thing to their opposition. You NEED propaganda to circumvent THAT obvious flaw!

Despite what some of you well educated people out in av-land think, alot of the world only understands/ respects one thing. That thing is"FORCE", in some counties the Big Dog is always right. Iran, Iraq, Syria Pakistan these people understand and respect Force. Look at Pakistan for Gods sake, their president took control by a military coupe. These people hate us for what we have, not for who we are. They want what we have and because they can't have it they hate us and try to murder us. When they attack us again people in this country will remember the pain and emotion of 911 on a larger scale this time and then....What will we do? Hopefully Bush is the President and we "FLATTEN" these animals once and for all. Do you think Japan will ever think about attacking the United States again? HUM.....

[Justlisten2]

And FYI, we wouldn't be in this mess if the Kennedy administration hadn't decided to sell Hawk missles to Israel in contradiction of prior policies in dealing with what we previously regarded as a Zionist state...

Excellent point. We also have to blame the Carter administration for arming Iraq when Iran was our enemy in the 70's. We also can blame the Reagan administration for arming the Afghans during the Soviet/Afghanistan war. You might just say it's our own weapons coming back to bite us. How about blaming Dubya's daddy for killing a couple hundred thousand Iraqi's. Do you think that had anything to do with 9/11? If a country came in and killed a couple hundred thousand Americans, I'm sure we would welcome them and become their friends, right?

The bottom line is this war is way deeper than 9/11, it goes back several decades. It will never end either. As you can see on news reports, folks in the middle east don't seem to like the USA more now than 3 years ago. All we are doing now is creating future Bin Laden's and Hussein's and Ayatollah's. Maybe if we stop hitting them, they'll stop hating us. Pull out of the middle east altogether, and that means no more support for Israel either. Let's try a new mind our own business policy, it seems to be working for Switzerland.

[cam]

Excellent point. We also have to blame the Carter administration for arming Iraq when Iran was our enemy in the 70's. We also can blame the Reagan administration for arming the Afghans during the Soviet/Afghanistan war. You might just say it's our own weapons coming back to bite us. How about blaming Dubya's daddy for killing a couple hundred thousand Iraqi's. Do you think that had anything to do with 9/11? If a country came in and killed a couple hundred thousand Americans, I'm sure we would welcome them and become their friends, right?

The bottom line is this war is way deeper than 9/11, it goes back several decades. It will never end either. As you can see on news reports, folks in the middle east don't seem to like the USA more now than 3 years ago. All we are doing now is creating future Bin Laden's and Hussein's and Ayatollah's. Maybe if we stop hitting them, they'll stop hating us. Pull out of the middle east altogether, and that means no more support for Israel either. Let's try a new mind our own business policy, it seems to be working for Switzerland.

Just my Canadian opinion: every time the good ol USA has intervened in the mid-east it has always come full circle to bite them in the ass. Afghanistan/ Soviet Union...Iraq/Iran. As a Canadian I felt safe when Reagan was in power, probably because of the way he handled Cadaffi. Swift, Accurate, and very Determined. One kick ass prez. Now it seems your leadership always waits for the next move by the opposition. Reagan on the other hand would kick ass right from the get go. Now that Bush has ordered what he has ordered, if Kerry wins the election, Kerry has to stay the course just to keep faith. Right now is the time to stay Swift, Accurate, and very Determined even if GWB made a huge blunder, and we all know he did. You guys are in deep, actually, my country is attached to yours, were all in deep.