Times truly are "getting hard"

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hhhmmmn, that didn't look like th eRoger Waters with which I'm familiar.

Are you acquainted with "Ca Ira", Waters' double disc on the French Revolution? There are some similarities and while the times change, the times stay the same if ya know what I mean...

Sometimes I feel like the Fed is tellin' us to eat cake.

Yeah, dry over baked cake with no sugary icing on top.

[Ajani]

Yeah, dry over baked cake with no sugary icing on top.

Huh??? I thought they gave out cheesecake during the Fench Revolution.... Come to think of it, why would you revolt when you're getting free cheesecake? Those Frenchies are so strange....

[Auricauricle]

Are you acquainted with "Ca Ira", Waters' double disc on the French Revolution? There are some similarities and while the times change, the times stay the same if ya know what I mean....

Am I familiar with Ca Ira? No. I like Waters, admire his musicianship and ablility to produce amazing music, but find his righteous persona a tad irritating sometimes.

When I get into my More-Times-Change-the-More-They-Stay-the-Same funks, I listen to Daltry: Wont Get Fooled Again.

Now that's rock and roll!

[Auricauricle]

Sir T, AJ: I don't think the humble pie will be served....

[Worf101]

Normally I avoid political discussion online. I find it rarely enlightening and never civil for long so I keep away. I only know that my social barometer is dropping like a stone, there's a storm coming and it won't be pretty.

Da Worfster

[bobsticks]

Normally I avoid political discussion online. I find it rarely enlightening and never civil for long so I keep away. I only know that my social barometer is dropping like a stone, there's a storm coming and it won't be pretty.

Da Worfster

Sadly true, and from a perverse sociological perspective I'll be interested to see how the battle lines are drawn--black v. white, young v. old, haves v. have-nots, etc.

[GMichael]

Sadly true, and from a perverse sociological perspective I'll be interested to see how the battle lines are drawn--black v. white, young v. old, haves v. have-nots, etc.

My guess,
A little of all three.

[Auricauricle]

Yep, there is a storm coming. Here, on the coast, we have learned that storms can be seen as monsters to be feared or nature's way of restoring balance. Of course, the universe is naturally entropic, so the balance is a short-lived steady state that will slowly, and inexoriably disintegrate to chaos. So maybe, in other words, we have reached a "tipping point"....

[Woochifer]

Now these thieves have begun targeting cancer clinics!

Story from yesterday's LA Times says that a local clinic had to delay radiation treatments for 63 patients because thieves removed the copper plumbing used cool the radiation machines.

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-co...,5059869.story

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Normally I avoid political discussion online. I find it rarely enlightening and never civil for long so I keep away. I only know that my social barometer is dropping like a stone, there's a storm coming and it won't be pretty.

Da Worfster

I say let it fly. Keepin that stuff in just makes you want to bust. And when you do bust, it usually contaminates the environment(auditory wise) and grounds alot of people. Oh wait, I am talking about myself.

Online political discussions are okay when you are dealing with intelligent folks who know how to read, then write. The motivation of the debate (and the OP motivation) also plays a huge role in its course. However, most of the time there is someone within the debate who takes things WAY too far, at that is usually where the debate gets derailed.

[Auricauricle]

But we are reasonable and intelligent, so do not let discussions get derailed, do we Sir T?!

[bobsticks]

However, most of the time there is someone within the debate who takes things WAY too far, at that is usually where the debate gets derailed.

How many times do I have to say "I'm sorry"?!

Honey, can we not have this fight in front of the Klingons? You know how it upsets them.

[Auricauricle]

You know what happens around Uranus!

[bobsticks]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92592545

[ForeverAutumn]

Good article 'sticks. Thanks for posting that. I've always lived in a big city with public transportation, so even without a car getting to work is never a problem. I never considered how difficult it could be if you lived in a city or town without public transportation. Thanks for opening my eyes to other's hardships a little more.

[Auricauricle]

Ya know....

It seems that it always takes a crisis to give (us humans) the incentive to innovate. Maybe it's the combined energies of urgency and creativity that has been buzzing around the head with no way out, but somehow or other this adapt or be overcome thing kicks in. Unfortunately, we are seeing a very hard road ahead for a great number of people. Like crippled wildebeasts on the plains of Kenya, some folks will be fodder for the strong and the greedy. Others will make it through--either by luck or pluck--and they will survive and produce a progeny that will make its own imprinteur, here, on Planet 3.

Will are at a crossroads, 'Sticks. This civilization of ours has only been around for a couple of hundred years: far fewer than many others whose presence here has been known and felt for many thousands. We act as though we are seeing the end of the world, but I say that we are only seeing a normal fluctuation of fits and starts that every civilization goes through in its search for stability and identity.

Through your scientific education, you have learned that stasis is not stability, that entropy is nature's true sense of homeostasis. Some compare the swings through time and event to the pendulum. I find the Taoist Yin and Yang a wonderful metaphor. Ebbing and waning, our energy and creativity accrues and dissapates like the moon.

I have no doubt that, in some shape, fashion or form, we will weather this one out. I think America has had to take one hard look at itself and had to admit that the Great Nation is not the Prime Mover that propels the Earth, but one nation and people of many who each share in their search for significance and meaning.

I know I am waxing mighty poetic here, Readers, and I apologize. All I want to say is that the fight is not over, the Fat Lady has not started singing and that we have heard only a snippet of the overture. We have many miles to go, and if we are going to make it out relatively unscathed and a little smarter, we're going to have to think differently about many things. And we're going to have to do it together.

Now, where's that Beethoven disc?

"O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Freude! Freude!
Freude, schöner Götterfunken
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!
Deine Zauber binden wieder
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt”….

[Worf101]

Auri, I understand what you're saying. All empires fall, Persian, Roman, Ottoman, British etc.. nothing lasts, the center does not hold. What separates this empire from all the others is that, in their death spasms, the other empires couldn't take the rest of the world with them. When our time is done on top will we have the good graces to concede the game graciously, like the British, or tip the table over like a petulant child and start slinging nukes at our enemies.... real or imagined?

Da Worfster

[Auricauricle]

Well, so far it seems, we've been acting like the spoiled brat!

[budgetaudio76]

Yep, there is a storm coming. Here, on the coast, we have learned that storms can be seen as monsters to be feared or nature's way of restoring balance. Of course, the universe is naturally entropic, so the balance is a short-lived steady state that will slowly, and inexoriably disintegrate to chaos. So maybe, in other words, we have reached a "tipping point"....

and its going to affect every economic sector, to the point that buying food for the day is going to cost the days wage. no matter if you make ten grand a day, or 50 dollars a day. now what does that leave for the commute to work?

look at the price of crude oil. the volatility of cultural condition, with extremist islam controlling(at a certain point) the price of crude out of the middle east. with the slight expression of threat to the pipelines. then the traders going bat chit and raising prices for the percieved demand looming should the threat go through and disrupt supplies.

crude prices affect every aspect of our lives. just look around you. if its man made then it need crude in some form.

[Auricauricle]

...and AK should be wary. If you value your wilderness or your shorelines, you will remain vigilant. While I think that this situation may rev up the consideration of alternate fuel sources and encourage dialog we are, as you say, up to our chins in crude. Don't just blame the ME. We're all guilty....and we can all find a solution!

[bobsticks]

Wow. I think some folks really took this the wrong way.

Yes, it is true that one of the n'er thought of issues that Americans face is the vast expanse of our place. It's nothing for us to drive twenty, thirty, or fourty miles to work, which is something I think Europeans and sometimes Asians forget when discussing challenges in energy conservation.

I think, however, that this article highlights the very worst of America, the excuse-making, the lack of ingenuity or drive. I think it highlights how the absence of will to overcome simple challenges and minor inconveniences is ultimately bringing us down.

A generation ago, the livelihood of Gloria Nunez's family was built on cars.

Things change.

Her father worked at General Motors for 45 years before retiring. Her mother taught driver's education. Nunez and her six siblings grew up middle class.

Although the wisdom of having seven children is questionable it reads as if they are the product of good, hardworking citizens. Perplexing it is...perhaps they weren't given enough hugs and self-exteem.

Things have changed considerably for this Ohio family.

Ja, and it helps if instead of sitting on the couch all day, ereday, you educate yourself and make an effort.

Nunez's van broke down last fall. Now, her 19-year-old daughter has no reliable transportation out of their subsidized housing complex in Fostoria, 40 miles south of Toledo, to look for a job.

North Baltimore and Findlay are significantly closer, as are The University of Findlay and Bowling Green. This is akin to me saying I can't find a job in Detroit when living in Naperville,Ill.

Nunez and most of her siblings and their spouses are unemployed and rely on government assistance and food stamps. Some have part-time jobs, but working is made more difficult with no car or public transportation.

So it's a family thang. Good to know where my tax dollars are going.

Nearly half of low-income Ohioans, or 47 percent, say that getting a well-paying job or a raise in pay is also major problem.

Well, excusing for a moment the fact that less than fifty percent of respondants were able to grasp the complexities of the question, isn't this fairly obvious? BTW, three-fourths of the population makes up seventy-five percent of the people.

And, what's "well-paying"? There's no God-given or Constitutional Right to an executive level job. You take a starting level job and work your way up, it's called competing.

Nunez, 40, has never worked and has no high school degree. She says a car accident 17 years ago left her depressed and disabled, incapable of getting a job. Instead, she and her daughter, Angelica Hernandez, survive on a $637 Social Security check and $102 in food stamps.

This is the chit that makes otherwise perfectly sensible people Republicans. Forty and never had a job?!? A car wreck seventeen years ago...depressed?!? I had a fenderbender last week, can I take the rest of the decade off?

Good to see we're teaching the next generation. There's a special place in hell for lazy people.

Hernandez received her high school diploma and has had several jobs in recent years. But now, because fewer restaurants and stores are hiring, she says she finds it hard to find a job. Even if she could, she says it's particularly hard to imagine how she'll keep it. She says she needs someone to give her a lift just to get to an interview. And with gas prices so high, she's not sure she could afford to pay someone to drive her to work every day.

So, why exactly isn't she still at one of those several other jobs? The idea of saving for an automobile of her own prolly never crossed her mind...

People tell Nunez her daughter could get more money in public assistance if she had a child.

"A lot of people have told me, 'Why don't your daughter have a kid?'"

God forbid. Yeah, let's continue the cycle.

They both reject that as a plan.

"I'm trying to get a job," Hernandez says. "I just can't get a job."

She'll be pregnant within a year, although I would imagine finding the guy will be challenging.

The only one with a car is Irma Hernandez, Nunez's mother. Hernandez says that with a teenage son still at home, the cost of feeding him and sending him to school is rising, and she can no longer pay for the car.

She's now two car payments behind.

"I'm about to lose my car," she says on her way to pick up one of her daughters to take her to Toledo. "So then what's going to happen to us?"

Ahh, so there is a car but grandma---and it's good to see that she was procreating well into later life---is too busy feeding her teenager to drive anyone anywhere to get a job before today. Maybe if several of them got jobs they could help her afford to keep the car...oh, but wait a minute, that would remove an obstacle from being a product and responsible member of society.

So Nunez and her daughter are mostly stuck at home.

...that clearly has no home gym...or sidewalks in the immediate surrounding areas on which to jog...or even floors upon which to do situps or pushups.

The rising cost of food means their money gets them about a third fewer bags of groceries — $100 used to buy about 12 bags of groceries, but now it's more like seven or eight. So they cut back on expensive items like meat, and they don't buy extras like ice cream anymore. Instead, they eat a lot of starches like potatoes and noodles.

No ice cream? I'll send my check...wait a sec, I already have been for several decades evidently. This is just a repeating cycle of joblessness and illegitimacy (notice in three generations there's only one husband mentioned). It's absolutely clear that this last paragraph was thrown in as an explanation for the picture. Maybe along with the monthly welfare checks we should send asparagus.

I know I am waxing mighty poetic here, Readers, and I apologize. All I want to say is that the fight is not over, the Fat Lady has not started singing and that we have heard only a snippet of the overture. We have many miles to go, and if we are going to make it out relatively unscathed and a little smarter, we're going to have to think differently about many things. And we're going to have to do it together

Yup, and that means all sides are gonna have to contribute. Meaning some folks are gonna have to go through some unpleasantness...go through job re-training, start low and work their way up...gosh, maybe even do a job other than being a rock star or supermodel or movie actor.
Old man Hernandez worked for 45 years in a GM production facility to make a better life for his family. I doubt everday was a walk in the park but he got up and did it 'cause that's what responsible members in a functioning society do. I bet ol' boy is turning over in his grave.

[RoyY51]

When I was younger, my heart bled as much as anyone's. I was consumed by the plight of the huddled masses, yearning to be free. Then, as I became older and somewhat wiser, I gradually started learning where my hard-earned tax dollars were really going: supporting generations of families with no intention of ever working, who's only goals were to have as many government-subsidized children as possible. It is a sad, self-perpetuating cycle that our government is forcing the rest of us to pay for, and I don't like it one little bit.

Well said, Bobsticks. Well said.

[3-LockBox]

Well, I'm glad you said it first. I was wondering how anyone that engorged could be complaining about quality of life and worrying where their next meal is coming from.

I think this sort of thing stems from a unrealistic sense of entitlement. Everybody else has their's - where's mine?

I see other cultures come into this country and take a different approach. I see a family in my own home town (in particular) who have purchased a home (last year) and manage to afford a decent standard of living (in their eyes). They are living in a house with two families, with as many as 5 incomes, pooling their resources.

So...you can't get one of them there union jobs that pay prevailing wage? Then forget it, you may as well go on welfare. But two or three incomes might meet or exceed that elusive "good job w/ benefits" everyone talks about not finding. Those people I talked about in the preceeding paragraph have a different outlook on life - a different sense of self, a more realistic view on how to succeed, and little to no sense of entitlement. They may or may not have had government subsistance during their stay in this country, I don't know, but they're not holed up in their house, getting fat, thinking of how society has let them down.

As for the Norplant thing, we still live in a society where its classist, and even racist, to suggest that people who can't afford to have children, consider not having children. I actually think its a good idea to try to establish one's self financially before committing to procreate, but that's high mindedness to a lot of other people.

[Worf101]

As I expected, sooner or later this discussion would veer down the predictable path of wherein the poor are blamed for being poor. I have a different perspective being the son of a sharecroppers daughter and a bellhop/chauffer etc.. I grew up a child of the "working poor". I lived in Government housing and was the first child in my family to graduate High School, College and Graduate School. And while some would use me as an example to bludgeon my less fortunate peers (including my sister and late brother) for their laziness that would be unfair and an injustice.

1. Entitlement - I find this topic the most laughable of all. No one in this world has a more inflated sense of entitlement than the rich/newly rich and wanna be rich American. As a public servant I deal with them everyday in often pointed circumstances. They want the world their way right now and they don't care who gets rolled over for it. They want cheap gasoline without the cost and they're more than willing for your son/daughter to die so they can have it cause you know their kids sure as chit ain't goin to Iraq. They want electricity without the powerplants or electric lines, smooth highways without the road repairs. They want slave labour without the Mexicans/Latin Americans.

To even hint that someone on Welfare (which is radically different than what it used to be thanks to Prez Clinton) has some inflated or unrealistic sense of entitlement is ludicrous. How do I know? Cause for brief periods when Dad was out of work I was ON welfare and if you sunsa*****es think that it was some la de da picnic of overflowing wealth and pink ponies you're out of your bloody mind. NOBODY wakes up and says to themselves, "wow what a great day to be broke and on welfare!!!" It just doesn't happen. You can play by the rules, work everyday and still find yourself falling farther and farther behind.

Yes I know there are lazy folks who would ride the system for as long as they can and as hard as they can. But god as my witness there are plenty of folks with that same mentality in the offices of Bechtel and Haliburton as there are in any inner city. You ***** and moan about some mythical "Welfare Queen" while the rich old men in power rob you blind, pilfer your pension, tax you to death, run your bank into the ground and sell your mortgage overseas... The stupidity of the average American slays me.

2. Immigrant work ethic - Immigrants from third world hell holes do have a great work ethic. They'll live 12 to a room, pool their monies and work like slaves for us for pennies a day. Just like our forefathers did before they wised up, organized and unionized. This is another way those in power keep folks blind and divided. They talk out of both sides of their neck. They extoll the immigrant work ethic while savaging the immigrants. They praise the hard working illegal on one day and blame him for the decline of the American Standard of Living the next day. All the while they rape and pilliage with no bid contracts, corporate welfare and ship your job to Sri Lanka.

Instead of focusing on the provision of a "living wage" for all workers legal or illegal, they play us off against one another so that folks that won't work like dogs are considered fat, spoiled and lazy. The American middle class is waking up to the fact that due to a changing world, globalized corporate greed and their own complacency their lives and those of their children are going to be worse than that of their parents.

Instead of focusing on meeting this changing dynamic with common sense and thought they fall for the same ole garbage used to keep blaming the less fortunate in society while the real criminals slog them over the head.

3. Personal Responsibility - I believe in it. I'm socially quite conservative. I've only one child and I take care of him. I don't believe in folks just spitting out kids with no idea how they're to be cared for. But again people talk out of both sides of their mouths. You can have sex, hell we want you to have sex, we use it to sell everything we make, just don't have any kids. You can get preagnant, but you can't have reproductive choice. So since you're too broke to afford them kids, don't have sex. Or do have kids just make sure they can make those latte's the way we like them.

I'm sorry to go on this rant but some things cannot go un challenged.

Da Worfster

PS, Poor folks are FAT by and large in this country because cheap foods are fattening, NOT because they want to be fat lazy slobs. McRonalds is cheap but it's fattening and will have you up to blimp size in no time. To eat nutritious foods costs money and time, two things the working poor do not have in America.

[bobsticks]

Worfster, I can admire your sense of advocacy and, indeed, your sense of fairplay in defending yourself against a perceived slight. But, before we all drop into that Starsky and Hutch shoulder roll and ****hammer each other into Net oblivion may I point out that my post was not about people on welfare but about these people on welfare.

Nobody in this country has a harder time of it than the working poor. Nobody. Period, no caveats. I think our government and our society should be looking for answers and solutions on how to make life a little easier for them and addressing the wage situation within our economy may play a role in that.

But, you and I both know ya gotta get in the game. You said, " How do I know? Cause for brief periods when Dad was out of work I was ON welfare and if you sunsa*****es think that it was some la de da picnic of overflowing wealth and pink ponies you're out of your bloody mind. NOBODY wakes up and says to themselves, "wow what a great day to be broke and on welfare!!!"

Clearly, your pops fell on some hard times and needed some temporary help. I'm glad he got it because there should be Welfare and there needs to be a social mechanism to help our brothers who stumble...but it shouldn't be a way of life. From the way you phrased your dad obviously picked himself up, dusted himself off and made another go of it. You turned out okay and seem to do pretty well for yourself and you being a military man it wasn't always easy was it?

This article talks about multiple generations with multiple siblings and their significant others who are all on the dole. It speaks of people that haven't worked for decades...so I see the scenarios as completely different.

You said:

Yes I know there are lazy folks who would ride the system for as long as they can and as hard as they can. But god as my witness there are plenty of folks with that same mentality in the offices of Bechtel and Haliburton as there are in any inner city. You ***** and moan about some mythical "Welfare Queen" while the rich old men in power rob you blind, pilfer your pension, tax you to death, run your bank into the ground and sell your mortgage overseas... The stupidity of the average American slays me.

It might surprise you that I agree 100%. In fact, up north aways in the forum we're havin' another battle on just such a topic. It doesn't make the offenses detailed in this article any less egregious.


Worf, I'l allow that sometimes I can be a bit snide and even vague. I don't think I was this time out as I took some care to be fairly precise. If you misinterpreted the post as an attack on all forms of social aid in every situation then I'm sorry there was a misunderstanding. At the same time, I'm not gonna back down in my stance that this specific case is one of abuse of the system.