Enjoy your brand new Iphones,,Ipads, and whatever.

[markw]

Lots pf people are paying for our pleasures and we feed this monster by demanding newer, better, and faster.

Is this Steven Jobs legacy?

[Feanor]

Lots pf people are paying for our pleasures and we feed this monster by demanding newer, better, and faster.

Is this Steven Jobs legacy?

This is the legacy of global capitalism. It's the legacy of 30 years of Reaganite supply-side economics. It is also the fate of North American workers as unions are crushed and they come under continuous pressure to lower wages, benefits, and protections to developing country levels, and politicians are bought to reduce consumer and environmental regulations. ("America needs to be compeditive".)

By all means let's lower taxes on corporations and the rich so they'll have even more money to invest in China.

Suck it up, citizens.

[noddin0ff]

I wouldn't call it the Steve Job's legacy. If anything it's the legacy of either A) Failure of the US to subsidize/support robust industrial infrastructure, or B) China playing unfairly by subsidizing/supporting robust industrial infrastructure.

Unless your point, mark, is to suggest we should take slow food movement philosophy to electronic consumerism...

I doubt believe that Apple is significantly more or less "evil" than any other enterprise seeking cheep, flexible and fast Chinese manufacturing.

philosophy from wiki...
The only thing for certain is that everything changes. The rate of change increases. If you want to hang on you better speed up. That is the message of today. It could however be useful to remind everyone that our basic needs never change. The need to be seen and appreciated! It is the need to belong. The need for nearness and care, and for a little love! This is given only through slowness in human relations. In order to master changes, we have to recover slowness, reflection and togetherness. There we will find real renewal.

[Feanor]

In the official Republican reply to Pres. Obama's State of the Union Speech, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels stated the a great innovator like Steve Jobs created more jobs in American than Obama's stimulus measures. It is charitable to call this "incorrect". It is grossly uninformed or ... uhmm ... a lie.

Apple has 43,000 employees in the USA and 700,000 workers in China -- I quote Chris Hayes on MSNBC this morning who might actually be thinking of the number of Foxconn workers not all of whom build Apple products. Again according to Hayes, the Obama stimulus has create 1,2000,000 jobs. This is how Republicans bullsh!t and lie to Americans.

What American corporations and 0.1 percenters have been doing doing since the Reagan regime is taking their tax savings and investing them abroad. Yeah, sure, they're "job creators", it's just about where they're creating the jobs.

[markw]

That's all right. Thanks to your RIM, your blackberries will be joining out Iphones on the trip west. See here for some news that's sure to brring a smile to your face.

But, look on the bright side: You've got all that bitumen to sell. One good thing about being born in a resource-rich country is that as long as it holds out, you've got a source of income. Not unlike some women who make a living off certain parts of their bodies, but most don't go around feeling smug about it.

[Feanor]

That's all right. Thanks to your RIM, your blackberries will be joining out Iphones on the trip west. See here for some news that's sure to brring a smile to your face.

But, look on the bright side: You've got all that bitumen to sell. One good thing about being born in a resource-rich country is that as long as it holds out, you've got a source of income. Not unlike some women who make a living off certain parts of their bodies, but most don't go around feeling smug about it.

Ah! Mark, if only you really knew something about Canada. Unfortunately the best you can do is grab the odd headline to jeer about.

WTF? Do actually think that somehow I gloating about America's problems? Could you be that stupid? There's nothing in America's woes that that works well for Canada. Unlike your, who would apparently like nothing better than to see Canada go down the toilet, I and most Canadian really like to see the USA do well -- even if it's only for selfish reasons.

Tar sands oil is the filthiest on earth and it would really be best if nobody used it. Could work out that way if the Keystone pipeline gets held up indefinitely and the Gateway pipeline, (Alberta to British Columbia coast), doesn't get approved. What we Canadians really need is to get rid of our own Republican-wannabe, dirt-bag Conservative prime minister, Stephen Harper.

[markw]

Ah! Mark, if only you really knew something about Canada. Unfortunately the best you can do is grab the odd headline to jeer about.

It seems that you're johnny on the spot when it coming to prancing about with Americia's problems. Not putting your country down, if more important stuff happened I'd have more articles from which to pick and choose.

Hey, my original post was directed to at he consumers who greedily suck up the shiniest new apple product even before they pulled the plastic protective sheet off the old one. It wasn't a political rant, at least until others decided to make it so. ...and look who was the first in line. Surprise, surprise.

WTF? Do actually think that somehow I gloating about America's problems. Could you be that effing stupid? There's nothing in America's woes that that works well for Canada. Unlike your, who would apparently like nothing better than to see Canada go down the toilet, I and most Canadian really like to see the USA do well -- even if it's only for selfish reasons.

Really? Then why do you show so much glee when you (don't) gloat? I see Montgomery Burns rubbing his bony hands together, cackling and smiling.

No, I don't want to see Canada have any problems. You don't see me proudly initiating posts gloating about their problems, do you? Now, can you honestly say that about yourself and a few (not all) of your fellow Canadian posters here?

Tar sands oil is the filthiest on earth and it would really be best if nobody used it. Could work out that way if the Keystone pipeline gets held up indefinitely and the Gateway pipeline, (Alberta to British Columbia coast), doesn't get approved. What we Canadians really need is to get rid of our own Republican-wannabe, dirt-bag Conservative prime minister, Stephen Harper.

It's funny that you only talk about your own countries dickheads when trying to defend your trashing ours.

Rather than post about your own "Republican" problems you choose to rag on us about ours. Why is that? Ragging on us isn't going to change your problems but, apparently, it does makes you feel better.

Besides, manufacturing has been shifting to the east since long before Reagan took office. Remember Datsun and Trio electronics to name just two? To try to lay it all on him is really quite disingenuous.

[Feanor]

...
Hey, my original post was directed to at he consumers who greedily suck up the shiniest new apple product even before they pulled the plastic protective sheet off the old one. It wasn't a political rant, at least until others decided to make it so. ....

Oh I see. Your post was supposed to be exclusively anti-Apple. I supposed because you prefer Samsung.

The Apple scenario isn't unique -- that's the issue. And it is a political as well as economic issue. American votes need to get the picture that their choices for President and Congress have exacerbated the decline of their nation in manufacturing and in general. Do you really not see that? Pry you head out of the sand (or your butt) and understand what's happening instead of just lapping up the bull excrement of Romney, Gingrich, et al.

[markw]

Oh I see. Your post was supposed to be exclusively anti-Apple. I supposed because you prefer Samsung.

The Apple scenario isn't unique -- that's the issue. And it is a political as well as economic issue. American votes need to get the picture that their choices for President and Congress have exacerbated the decline of their nation in manufacturing and in general. Do you really not see that? Pry you head out of the sand (or your butt) and understand what's happening instead of just lapping up the bull excrement of Romney, Gingrich, et al.

Actually, my one-liine post was aimed at the mass consumersium that created this monster. Ther really wasn't too much to misinterpert but leave it to you. You're the one that sees monsters under every bed, and they are all Americans.

You just won't give up, will you? You really can't see yourself for the pathetic hater that you are, can you? Everyone else can. Do your hands tremble when you're posting here? Are you really that starved for attention up there?

Just so you don't feel too left out, you've got your own locally grown RIM that's starting to move the manufacture of your blackberries to another Pacific RIM (ironic, no?) country. Wonder how long before all of 'em are made there?

So, between your own self-admitted "Republican" problems and this little apple situation of your own, it seems you've got your own problems to worry about, or do you just like reminding us of ours?

There, see? Now you've got your own little monsters to rag on. Happy now?

Enjoy your Blackberry. (Do people even still buy these?)

[Feanor]

...
You just won't give up, will you? You really can't see yourself for the pathetic hater that you are, can you? Everyone else can. Do your hands tremble when you're posting here? Are you really that starved for attention up there?
...
So, between your own self-admitted "Republican" problems and this little apple situation of your own, it seems you've got your own problems to worry about, or do you just like reminding us of ours?

There, see? Now you've got your own little monsters to rag on. Happy now?
...

Wrong, I'm giving up just after I say that your paranoia is spectacular: you see anti-American is under every stone.

To be sure, other nations have their problems too, and some these problems are pretty much indentical to the USA's -- people are stupid everywhere.

...
Just so you don't feel too left out, you've got your own locally grown RIM that's starting to move the manufacture of your blackberries to another Pacific RIM (ironic, no?) country. Wonder how long before all of 'em are made there?
...
Enjoy your Blackberry. (Do people even still buy these?)

I have no stake in RIM. I've never owned a Blackberry, nor an iPhone, Samsung, or any make of smartphone.

[markw]

Wrong, I'm giving up just after I say that your paranoia is spectacular: you see anti-American is under every stone.

No, just your, and one or two of your fellow canuks, posts. Don't you even read them, or you simply a bald faced liar?

Remember, jjust because one is paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

To be sure, other nations have their problems too, and some these problems are pretty much indentical to the USA's -- people are stupid everywhere.

Yet all your posts in this thread, and most eveywhere else, focus only on the US. Why is that? Some sort of deep-seated hatred you haven't the balls to admit? Let's face it bill. If you stopped beating the US at every opportunity you would simply blow up and explode like an overinflated baloon from all the hatred that built up inside, and the **** would cover miles around,

I have no stake in RIM. I've never owned a Blackberry, nor an iPhone, Samsung, or any make of smartphone.

Of course you don't care. It doesn't affect you. The fact that your countrymen are losing their jobs bothers you not at all.

I will say that your input here has given me more respect for your national, err, provincial health coverage. It's proven to me that they are capable of keeping the body alive long after the brain has ceased to function.

[RGA]

Thanks for the article - I put it on my facebook.

The demand for "new" is a little absurd when people are lining up for days to get their new toy. The corporation that only cares about money is a problem but nothing new there - all corporations anywhere in the world are all exactly the same - but perhaps Mark has hit the main point - that those companies are meeting a demand - just like the drug problem - without the demand there is no need for the supply.

And that article doesn't mention the lack of other controls - pollution. Granted a big part of that is those countries governments who let this happen - but they're easily bought off to let things go.

The great American horror movie "Dawn of the Dead" (1978) illustrated the anti-consumerism message very well - the dead come back to life and where do they go - the Shopping Mall. Why? "they're after the place, not us, this was an important place in their lives." So when they return they head to the mall like mindless zombies - I can never walk through a mall without a slight chuckle remembering that movie.

PS
Corporations are no longer bound by country lines - in a way the corporation is global no longer concerned over lines on a map. They go where the costs are cheap and sell to where the people can and will spend the most money.

And that article - won't stop anyone from buying an iPhone - because people will say "they all do it" - which might be the case. It ultimately has to be fixed by the people in those countries - China is essentially a century behind in many places - they are in their industrial revolution while the western countries are in the information age. The Industrial revolution sucked in the west too - In Canada we Had Chinese workers dying to build our rail roads - literally dying not excited to get the job dying. And working in coal mines for 50 years like my Grandfather in Wales.

So the Chinese will, if they're smart, form unions to put protections in place for their workers, to ensure fair wages, to get benefits. Once they do that the global companies will close down and open shop in some country where the dictator can be paid off - perhaps Myanmar and where there are no protection.

THE CORPORATION [1/23] What is a Corporation? - YouTube

[Feanor]

....
And that article - won't stop anyone from buying an iPhone - because people will say "they all do it" - which might be the case. It ultimately has to be fixed by the people in those countries - China is essentially a century behind in many places - they are in their industrial revolution while the western countries are in the information age.
....
So the Chinese will, if they're smart, form unions to put protections in place for their workers, to ensure fair wages, to get benefits. Once they do that the global companies will close down and open shop in some country where the dictator can be paid off - perhaps Myanmar and where there are no protection.
...

Indeed they all do it. Apple is merely a notable example on account of its success and reputation for innovation.

As for China establishing unions and worker protections, don't hold your breath. It won't happen and for the very same reason that unions are being undermined here in North American. That reason is global competition. Yes, the Chinese already fear Myanmar, et al.

The whole world is in a "race to the bottom". Politicians in all countries, bribed and threatened as they are by corporations and plutocrats, are frantically underbidding each other to offer them lower taxes and few worker, consumer, and environmental protections.

It's naive to think that North American middle class prosperity can be restored merely by cutting taxes & regulations. If these were cut fast enough and far enough to satisfy global corporations the lifestyle of the middle class would be reduced to the level of developing countries

[RGA]

This is a problem because there is only so low you can go with the race to the bottom - at some point the bottom is hit.

And like the saying goes - sometimes you have to hit bottom to get better.

But something has to be done because the middle class is being wiped out. A lot of wealth at the very top and then abject poverty on the other end of the spectrum. The middle class is being pushed down - to the point where politicians are claiming that a million dollars net is middle class - if so I'm in poverty. I have a negative net worth with $50k in student loans in a career that was just ranked the worst career choice to be in in North America. Which is why I'm in Hong Kong - not necessarily by choice but because if I want to eat I needed to move.

But like every place - the NUMBERS are with the people not dictatorial regimes. If the Chinese banded together they could overthrow their red party in weeks. There have been a number of riots in China over the last months - news media hides it well but it's there - The story about the 60 kindergarten kids on the bus may have made it to the U.S. but the parents and many others didn't let that go.

The entire point is to be AFRAID of the people - France is one of the few places remaining where the government is in fear of the citizenry - and I wish Canada and the U.S. instilled that same fear - We have more guns per capita than U.S. citizens do - interesting tid bit - and anytime you have a well armed population you should scare your government - and it's not like the military is going to shoot their own friends and family at home.

First - Corporations can't be deemed as people
Second - executives of partnerships, and corps can't be shielded from personal lawsuits or jail for the actions of their "company"

And those two changes have to happen globally - so they can't hide their business in Mexico or China to skirt the "global law" - we have the U.N. then expand the scope or create a giant watchdog on corporations. Since ALL companies would be bound by it there could not be an issue for republicans over hurting business because they're ALL reigned in.

Someone doesn't play along - you ban their products - you create embargos tariffs on countries that don't follow suit.

And it needs to be run by non IMF crooks. It needs to be run by people from the social arts who also have a decent business mind - or ethical business sustainability leaders.

The people in the corporation are bound by their isolated jobs in the corporate world - prime directive is to make as much profit and to increase market share - if that is goal one then ethics and morality go out the window. And the people will justify their actions as being positive so they can live with themselves just as many justified sticking their fellow man into gas chambers.

I am not sure why we all let business run the world - corporations are psycho-paths as demonstrated very effectively in the film I linked. We let these giant merciless heartless ethically bankrupt machines run the entire world. And the scary thing is - I am not sure how you stop an Avalanche coming at you with a toy plastic shovel.

How do we really fix the mess - because it's going to get worse - much worse.

[Feanor]

Your comments here are, sadly, a bit utopian. For sure if ordinary people got it together and challenged their rulers things could rapidly change. What is so dismal is that even when the population is angry they are easily mislead and misguided. Take the US Tea Party for example; or Salafist Muslims as another example. To repeat what you & I know very well, dogmatic, self-righteous religion is a huge impediment to human progress.

In China most people are not activist or even aware of any alternative to what they've got; (it might not be so bad in Hong Kong as on the mainland). My daughter-in-law is Chinese and her parents live in Beijing. My son's observation is that most Chinese just accept government dictates; for there is not criticism or even discussion of government policies in the principal media. It doesn't even occur to most people to complain about the government -- people unconsiously self-censor: it's kind of impolite to criticise as well as imprudent to do so. Don't count on an "Arab Spring" in China any time soon -- at least not as long as China is growing and significant numbers are prospering, (like my in-laws who are probably 1%'ers in China).

[RGA]

You are correct - Hong Kong is completely different than China - although only certain people are allowed to vote in Hong Kong - at least there is a vote - and they can all vote for local officials (town mayor types). And the papers are somewhat critical so there is that. And the people here know it - But when you're living well - it's difficult to complain.

But many people here have been educated in Canada/US/England - There is a huge HK population in Vancouver/Richmond BC so they know what is available to them. Of course look at the percentage of the population that turn out to vote in North America - it is very low - and these people have "the right to vote" and don't.

Canada elects a dictator for 4-5 years which is essentially true under a majority since they almost always vote the party line. At least in the U.S. you get more vocal dissent from members of their own party. Problem is they only have 2 choices and both are owned by corporations.

The Tea Baggers are essentially the racist nut bags who are ignorant of what they're fighting against - they are fighting TAXES and concerned over the president raising debt

[Feanor]

...
Canada elects a dictator for 4-5 years which is essentially true under a majority since they almost always vote the party line. At least in the U.S. you get more vocal dissent from members of their own party. Problem is they only have 2 choices and both are owned by corporations.

The Tea Baggers are essentially the racist nut bags who are ignorant of what they're fighting against - they are fighting TAXES and concerned over the president raising debt

Great graphic! An analogous graphic would work in the Canadian case too, where Conservatives have expanded the deficit much faster that the Liberals.

What people don't get is that the Right-wing agenda IS NOT about "fiscal responsibility", nor is it about balanced budgets or deficit reduction. For that matter, it ISN'T about "small government" per se. What it IS about is cutting taxes breaks and regulations for the ultra-rich and corporations. For these power brokers "smaller" government is -- at best -- merely an enabler for these things. However the Right has show over and over again that it is willing to finance its tax reductions for the rich by borrowing.

Nor do corporations or the rich give the least damn about social conservatism, whether patriotic or religious -- gay marriage, abortion: do you really think they give a damn?. However North American Right-wing parties have brilliantly associated themselves with the social conservatism in the minds of naive voters.

What between their hidden economic agenda and their disingenuous support of "values", the Right-wings are selling voters a bill of goods.

In practical terms the Canadian PM has far more power than the US President. Not only does he have more, effective control of his caucus, but also, e.g. he doesn't need Parliament's approval for appointments such as the Cabinet, ambassadors, or the Supreme Court. Furthermore thanks to our "first past the post" constituency electoral system, a party can gain an substantial Parliamentary majority with much less than a majority of the popular vote. Of course this presently the case with the Conservative government -- whose platform is much farther to the Right and much more socially conservative than any of the other parties who are, in fact, closer to each other than any are to the Conservative Party.