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  1. #26
    What, me worry? piece-it pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl k
    What indeed. IMO, we finish the business at hand. That means clean up Afghanastan and Iraq as we promised. Let's not dilly-dally around about it either! The clock is ticking and the eyes of the world are watching us to determine our credibility. Let's not dissappoint them. If Syria has WMD's, let's go in ourselves, COVERTLY and establish real, solid, hardcore proof before action is considered. I'm talking pictures(and not from space either), documents, shippers, invoices, and even a credible whitness or two. Lets gather it all up, go public, get the average Joes around the world behind us and give Syria one and only one chance to invite us in to "help" before we choose what course to follow. If we do right by Iraq, they will be behind us and geographically, Syria will be surrounded making good use of economic sanctions or military action. Go in only for the WMD's and not to make a new government. How we tried to establish proof with Iraq having WMD's was total BS... we have the proof but won't go public because of national security...BS!!! What that means is we suspect and can't prove anything... in the worlds eyes. If our intel suggests that the WMD's went to Syria before the war ended, why is it we didn't intercept them? If we knew they went to Syria, then we had the biggest part of the problem solved(knowing is half the battle... GI Joe) So what happened? My guess, we don't want to find and destroy the WMD's... YET. Not til we use it as an excuse to get involved in the countries where we have an interest and had no provocation to act. We let some of Al Qaeda escape to Pakistan and Iran... WHY? I don't believe it was because we couldn't stop them, instead to give us a reason for doing a little research on where the other terrorist are and to see what else we find.(can you say probable cause?) I may not have the luxury of the info the Prez gets, but I can say in no uncertain terms, that if I, an American citizen, have these questions about our motives, then millions like me around the world will have the same suspicions and our PR and credibility through our actions are two of the most influencial tools we have to change that.

    We are getting better, lets not mess it up!

    Changing the world by being fair, just, and consistant.
    I'd like nothing better than to finish this mess! So far, we're doing well, as we will see down the road.

    I agree about proof of WMD & Syria before invading. We did not know about the possible transfer until after we won. However, it's only one reason to be pissed at Syria. Covertly supporting & harboring Saddamites, the PLO, and Al Quida, in my cowboy mind :) means trouble for them.

    It appears our pressure has started to work: they recently expelled some members of Al Quida.

    I believe they will end up giving us what we want. It may be secret, however, to save face, & that is OK with me - that's what we want, to bring nations into the fold, avoiding fighting if possible. But then, someone will say look! they're keeping secrets!! Oh well, damned if you do, damned if you don't, try to do the right thing as you see it & don't let the turkeys get you down :).

    I don't believe we've got the WMDs'. Look at the pounding Bush is taking over them! Part of the reason we're acting so tough is to get cooperation WITHOUT fighting. Perhaps we let some of Al Quida go - after we implanted tracking devices in their skulls lol (wait a minute - it may not be that farfetched).

    I like the fair, just, & consistent. Let's all take a deep breath & pray this works out for the better.

    Pete
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Abraham Lincoln

  2. #27
    What, me worry? piece-it pete's Avatar
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    21st century - 3000 US civilians dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaa! Les go shoot up dem bad guys!

    What century is this again? I mean come on - I'm all for taking action and fighting the good fight, but systematically waging war on Middle East targets like a bunch of cowboys is not going to get us where we need to be. We've got a national drug problem, they have a terrorist problem. Their terrorist problem exists because we are the super power. As long as there is a super power, there will be terrorist activists who have supporters and will commit despicable acts to make their statements. It's the only way they know how to fight, and the only way they believe they can win. Taking out those countries will not end the terror. The terrorists are not fighting for their countries - they are fighting for their religious beliefs. They will continue to be supported by people with money who share their beliefs.

    I don't like war, but I understand it's necessary for survival. Men can't always agree and war will always come about. There is some comfort knowing that we have the strongest military in the world, but I think it's all the "cheering like it's a football game" mentality that makes people uneasy about the whole thing. George W. ends up getting a worse rap for his gung-ho, lynch mob followers who want to destroy everything in the Middle East.

    I'd like to see Al Qaeda brought down along with the top terrorist leaders just as much as the next guy here. But I'd also like to see it done without bringing about WW3 and pitting the entire Muslim world against us. Waging war on a list of Middle East countries is only going to ensure that anti-US groups keep operating.
    Chris,

    I haven't spoke to a single person on this board lately that a) cheered like we were at a football game, b) acted like a lynch mob, or c) wanted to destroy the middle east.

    I believe these people are terrorists because that's the only way they believe they can grab power. The US is a target because we stand in their way & are an easy target among their own people (it's Americas' fault you are poor! It's not corrupt Arab leaders or Imams - the USA is stealing your money & poisoning your kids' minds! They are controlled by those sons of dogs & monkeys - the Jews). We are not forcing them to blow up their own kids.

    I agree that taking down nations will not end their efforts. But that can go too far - they were openly running training camps in Afganistan, and Saddam was letting them use his wide-body jets to practice mock attacks highjack-style. Is a friend of our enemy our friend? Or our enemy? Where is the line?

    If we believe Syria has un-accounted for WMD, and knowing their past & present links to our proven enemies, what do you believe we should do?

    Buffalo Pete, terror of terrorists. :)
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Abraham Lincoln

  3. #28
    What, me worry? piece-it pete's Avatar
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    Ok.

    LOL!

    Korea & Vietnam are similar, but by scale still apples & oranges, casuality-wise.

    Korea is a success story. Vietnam is a good example of what happens when you try to fight a PC war.

    Few = 5 to 10? OK, that's stretching it a little. But the plain fact is we don't have the luxury of exit strategies after being attacked. We must act!

    Japan & Germany are great examples of different cultures. Remember that Iraq was civilized & many there are educated.

    The Iraqi people LOVE having us in their country. Poll after poll shows a solid 60% approval - their only fear is that we'll leave them to the Imams.

    I agree that we may still have serious trouble. And that our soldiers may get shot & shot at (did they consider this before they signed up?). But so far, not bad. And doing nothing is a pretty crappy option.

    Pete
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Abraham Lincoln

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by piece-it pete
    LOL!

    I agree that we may still have serious trouble. And that our soldiers may get shot & shot at (did they consider this before they signed up?). But so far, not bad. And doing nothing is a pretty crappy option.

    Pete
    When kids, which many are, sign up for the armed services they don't think their chances are high that they will go to war. Know, I understand that it's always possibilty, but how many really believe there going to see action. I do agree though, if you sign up you better be ready for it. I'd like to know how enrollment numbers are know. Are they as high as they were right after 9/11 or lower?

    Hey Pete, just in case we don't correspond before the holidays, I hope you and your family have a great Christmass, and an even better New Year!!!
    Bruno

  5. #30
    Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piece-it pete
    The Iraqi people LOVE having us in their country. Poll after poll shows a solid 60% approval - their only fear is that we'll leave them to the Imams.
    Whoa Pete - correction - the Iraqi people "we've polled" approve of us being in their country. We surely haven't polled the majority of the Iraqi people - probably just portions of the popluated areas. All reports that I've seen have said that more and more Iraqi people would like to see us go.

    That 60% may look good on paper for PR purposes, but it doesn't come close to showing that the Iraqi people "LOVE" us being there. They may be afraid of us leaving, but that doesn't mean they love us being there. To many of the innocent, non-terrorist citizens there, we are still the "evil empire" who just wants their oil.

    I know we cannot leave the country soon, but we need to continue to execute on our exit strategy and get the country on its feet quickly.

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