Pat,

None of those statements/verses show that the Bible subscribes to the flat earth theory. The people might have - but God never says so.

Using colloquialisms to "prove" this (or any) point isn't the best idea - one has to read into it, so they can be misread, even manipulated, based on ones' feelings toward the subject.

Consider "the sun rises in the east". If our discussion was taking place 300 years from now that could be used to show we believed in a flat earth. But that's rediculous - it's just a saying.

Look at it another way: If a martian was trying to explain something to you, and you did not know the scientific details of his point, he could bring the conversation down to our level, and phrase it based on what is normal or known to us. We do this all the time when we try to explain things to children. Imagine what historians could make of that!

To your link. He says: "The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages." Therefore you must interpet. See paragraph two above.

He then goes on to use modern theories to "prove" the Bible is wrong. An unbiased scientist would see the problem with this. You need proven facts, not theories. We have none.

One point where we part ways, logically if you think about it, is miracles. As a believer, God is all-knowing and all-powerful - He can do whatever He wants, as He created everything. As a non-believer, one could consider belief in miracles proof of... wrongness?

However, whether one believes in God or the Big Bang proof is proof, a feeling or emotion exactly that. There is no proof now for either side. So, both arguments are based on faith, one side in man, the other in God.

BTW, I did not have a chance to read the Bhagavad Gita, sorry, I will post when I can.

_________________________

Joe,

My apologies for never saying hello. Hello.

If the Theory of Relativity is proven then why is it called a theory?

And what makes your faith more logical than mine?

________________________________


Shokker ,

My dad says things like that. While it is true (consider that Jesus promised the criminal convicted to death on the cross next to him eternal salvation), the Bible also says God knows your heart (as you mention), therefore you have to be sincere.

It is a by-product of grace.

Jesus explains it this way (a denarius equals a days' pay)

Matthew 20:1-16 NIV: The parable of the vineyard workers.

For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' So they went.

He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

'Because no one has hired us,' they answered. "He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Shok I hope this at least helps explain.

Pete