President Fox of Mexico must be very happy in deed.

[JSE]

Bturk,

You're starting to sound like a conservative!

"I'm sick of hearing that bull$h!t, that they do jobs we won't do. There willing to do the jobs for less money and little to no health care. This is a great savings to many businesses and companies. That is why they get the jobs as much as anything! It's all about the bottom line, and cheap Mexican labor gives it to many companies, so F@ck our citizens!As a guy who has struggled to find work for the last two years, I'll pick apples, but I demand health care!"

The fact is, they do. Listen to yourself. "As a guy who has struggled to find work for the last two years, I'll pick apples, but I demand health care!" Do you want a job or not? Ok, let's give you healthcare for picking those apples. Now, I go to the store and apples are $1 a piece. No matter how you look at it, increased pay and benefits means higher priced goods.

"Yeah, Jorge is really looking out for HIS citizens, very brilliant indeed, what an A$$H@LE!!! Again, last time a checked Jorge was a Republican. He seems to be allowingm the unfettered imigration here!"

Bturk, I think you are over reacting. He is not allowing unfettered imigration. Read the proposal. If someone sneaks accross the border, they will still be considered illegal. When you really think about it, this plan really does not change much of anything. It's political. As I mentioned before, I hope this lead to more strict enforcement of current imigration laws. This could turn out to be a good thing. You are right though, we need to tighten up our borders and end illegal imigration. It's easy to stop. Really. I wish Bush would do more to stop it. I really do. But, who ever does it, will pay a severe political price. Maybe Bush will make some hard decisions and try and end it in his second term? Hell, I would vote for anybody and I mean anybody if they guaranteed they would truly protect our borders. I think illegal imigration is the biggest and possibly the most desctructive issue facing us. I don't care who comes here or from where as long as they do it legally.

You say this issue makes you mad? What makes me mad are people who use the saying "Our country was build on imigration and therefore we should let everyone in. It's what makes America, America." Paaaleaaaaase! Yes, we were "built" on imigration. But times have changed and illegal imigration is threatening to destroy us now. The valve needs to be closed and only opened for legal imigrants. Harsh, but true!

The fact is, illegal imigrants are here. Can't change that. We are going to have to deal with them in some manner sooner or later. How, I'm not sure. Yes, they are draining our system but how do we fix that? Make them more productive? Identify them and get them valid SS# so they can work legally? I don't know. I do know one thing, $20 billion would go along way toward securing our borders.


JSE

[bturk667]

I use common sense and my love for this country to come up with some of my conclusions. I never, and I mean ever, side along some kind of invisible party line. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

All I want is for government to do what is right. I have no problem with any body coming here legally, looking for a better life for themselves and their family. My own parents did so. They arrived here on 11/23/63, now we all no what happened on the previous day. I do however have a problem with them when they do so illegally, and then get rewarded for it. And why? For votes, that just is not right, any way you slice it!

[JSE]

Hey Bturk,

"I do however have a problem with them when they do so illegally, and then get rewarded for it. And why? For votes, that just is not right, any way you slice it!"

I agree with you on this and this may go against my conservative nature but, the fact is they are here. There is no way we can round them up and send illegal aliens back. I would bet that most illegal imigrants have families of which some or all of their children were born here, thus these family members are US citizens. I have no figures to support this but it seems to be the case here in south Texas and I bet it's the same in most border states. We can't send the parents and keep the kids so what do we do? I don't really know. I do know that we are going to have to deal with them at some point so they are not such a drain on our system. Again, I don't like the thought of rewarding them but at some point we have to draw a line in the sand and say, if your here fine, but no one else gets in illegally. I don't know if any other way could work?

As far as being an Independent, well that's great. I admire people who have open minds and try and side with what makes sense for our country. I long considered myself an independent but in the last 5 or so years I have found that I am becoming more and more conservative. I do however have no problem disagreeing with conservative agendas or ideas if they make no sense.

JSE

[Chris]

Hey Bturk,

"I do however have a problem with them when they do so illegally, and then get rewarded for it. And why? For votes, that just is not right, any way you slice it!"

I agree with you on this and this may go against my conservative nature but, the fact is they are here. There is no way we can round them up and send illegal aliens back. I would bet that most illegal imigrants have families of which some or all of their children were born here, thus these family members are US citizens. I have no figures to support this but it seems to be the case here in south Texas and I bet it's the same in most border states. We can't send the parents and keep the kids so what do we do? I don't really know.
JSE

Thank you JSE - many are not thinking of these "illegals" as being people. They're thinking of them as statistics who need to be rounded up like cattle and taken back. Take the parents away and leave the kids as JSE said, and you'll have other social issues creep up on you.

I'd bet that most of the people who want to see illegals rounded up have no family outside the US, which would help explain their cold view of the situation. If it doesn't affect you, your family, or friends, it's always easier to care less about the people involved, right? Yet, when it touches people you know, you tend to have a little more compassion for the lives involved.

[bturk667]

We just aren't about to do that. The imagrantion lawyers would have a field dayif we tried to, not to mention the liberals in the government. The problem for the future is when do we finally start stopping them from crossing the boarder ILLEGALLY? We have to do this sooner or later. So, I for one say let us start today, not tomorrow! Do what ever it takes, including placing the national guard all along the boarder!

All I am saying is stop the ILLEAGAL imagration into this country! Again, I have no problewm with legal imagrants, just with illegal ones!

[Chris]

We just aren't about to do that. The imagrantion lawyers would have a field dayif we tried to, not to mention the liberals in the government. !

Not to mention it isn't the right thing to do.

The problem for the future is when do we finally start stopping them from crossing the boarder ILLEGALLY? We have to do this sooner or later. So, I for one say let us start today, not tomorrow! Do what ever it takes, including placing the national guard all along the boarder!

I hear what you're saying. I think border patrol needs to be addressed too. The tough part is, it's just another social program fighting for funding along with tons of other programs - like the war on drugs, or the homeless problem, or the education system, or the medicare system. To divert more resources to the border issue, means you gotta take away from other programs that are in worse shape and have supporters just as avid as you. Do you think everyone agrees it's important enough to put the national guard at the border? Would people be willing to pay an extra tax for it? I don't know... I sort of doubt it.

[JSE]

I think we all agree the Borders need to be tightened up and closed off.

"The tough part is, it's just another social program fighting for funding along with tons of other programs - like the war on drugs, or the homeless problem, or the education system, or the medicare system. To divert more resources to the border issue, means you gotta take away from other programs that are in worse shape and have supporters just as avid as you. "

Chris,

One thing to remember is that closing off the border will definitely help the War on Drugs. You're right, it would cost a bunch but think how much it costs to support each illegal alien that comes across the border and then stays here illegally. I really believe the finacial benefit would outway the cost.

Bturk,

I'm right there with ya on using what ever it takes to get it done. National Guard? Sure! One thing is for sure, it would not really be a hard task. It's just got to be done, period. Someone's got to have the Balls to do it. Bush? I don't know, but in 5 to 10 years it going to be a HUGE problem that cannot be ignored. It's huge now, but it will only get worse. It's simply a hot potatoe that nobody wants to touch right now. Maybe after the election? I mean it when I say that I will vote for anyone and I mean anyone that will gurantee to close our borders. I think it's probably the biggest issue facing us.

JSE