I know any typical american civilian

[cam]

would be wondering, why would an american soldier want to pose in a photo where an iraqi would be in a less than desirable position. Any soldier should be smart enough to know that a photo is evidence. I mean the u.s. is the land of lawsuits and photographic evidence of a crime is proof of wrong doing. Maybe when u.s. soldiers are being trained for combat thet should also be briefed on commen sense. But maybe war makes you a little goofy.

[paul_pci]

would be wondering, why would an american soldier want to pose in a photo where an iraqi would be in a less than desirable position. Any soldier should be smart enough to know that a photo is evidence. I mean the u.s. is the land of lawsuits and photographic evidence of a crime is proof of wrong doing. Maybe when u.s. soldiers are being trained for combat thet should also be briefed on commen sense. But maybe war makes you a little goofy.

Your last statement could be the key. There's been a lot of freaky happenings by soldiers since Afganistan and Iraq that most people would attribute to combat stress (killing spouses, suicide,etc.), so why not this. Perhaps the army needs better stress management and assessment of those in charge of highly sensitive duties such as prisoner babysitters.

[RGA]

That's B.S. Same as the claim these people argue that gee I was trained as a trucker not a prison guard - like you need to be trained not to act like a sadist at the first opportunity?

I remember my Psychology professor saying years ago that a good 30% of the population were on the fringe of what Freud would call a lack of Super Ego(conscience) where by if there was an opportunity to riot they would be the first ones in. That these people if given an opportunity to do evil things and get away with it would gladly do it.

The armed forces is a breeding ground for such people - not just in America but anywhere. Where else do you get a chance to kill people and not go to jail - to rape children and not get caught - to rob people of their belongings, and of course to torture and maim others to your jollies. The Army that's where.

It does not take training to act like a "good" human being - perhaps those who ratted out the photos did what they could.

The issue over Rumsfeld - I don't see how he can be blamed - America kinda has to let any nut who wants to sign up sign up because the population is not large enough to support the military demands. But then they're suppose to have the non psycho's in charge. The longer you occupy a country the more opportunities will arise. And when Amercia finally leaves and leaves a non secular leader this time but a nutty religious leader in charge = then in 5 years when nothing has changed we'll all be scratching our head as to what we all gained from this. Some murderous Shiite(sp?) leader in control gassing hundreds of thousands like Saddam was doing.

The worst plague eer to hit the earth is man - which would make any God the equivelant of the Devil.

[piece-it pete]

Hello RGA.

I see you around the various rooms, still like the ANs'! They must be pretty good.

The overall mood here was very ugly, to say the least, after 9-11 and I can speak from personal experience when I say the vast majority of us would willingly look the other way on "borderline" torture, the nudity/shame, sleep deprivation (not sure I'd call that borderline), etc, from the must needs point of view.

I doubt the vast majority would have approved of electrical shock outside of al Qiada's inner circle. Inside? Hmmmm.

I think this lax attitude is directly responsible for the prison snafu. We were OK with it in certain cases & it lead to this horrible thing, this travesty.

To put it bluntly: it's our (US citizens) fault, including me.

I expect this won't happen again for a long, long time. Look for many heads to roll, too bad not literally in some cases.

Our armed forces will not let "any nut" sign up. LOL I tried! to volunteer during round one back in the early '90s, after serious soul searching, and they said "no thanks, we don't need anyone" and hung up!! Most are fairly smart, and would seem balanced enough. Though you're right, there's a lot of folks who'd go bonkers if they could get away with it.

Do you really believe they'll fail in self gov't? It looks that way to me but here's their big chance, we'll be there backing the "ligit" gov't for longer than 5 years, and if it fails they've got no one but themselves to blame. That, Saddam gone, other nations on notice that we WILL fight (and win), and a chance to work on our other problems with him out of the way is what we'll gain. We did the right thing, IMO, and most thinking Arabs will know.

"The worst plague eer to hit the earth is man - which would make any God the equivelant of the Devil."

Here I thought you where Orthodox !

Pete

[piece-it pete]

BTW cam,

You're right, WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS!!

Pete

[RGA]

Yes I'm still enjoying the AN's - best piece I've ever had.

I'm actually not going to make a huge deal of what these soldiers did. The fact is there is a large segment that borders on the fringe or low moral standard and that percentage is likely higher in the military. The difference today and the early 90s is that America is trying to stick this one out - which history has shown that when America does the usual gun and quick pull-out is the very reason you have Bin Laden running a country to start with - remember America set that guy up with arms and power against the Russians - so i'm happy to see they're not pulling out quite so fast and are attempting to stick to a plan. Though the plan is pretty lousy but only because Bush doesn't like educated people according to him and unfortunately you need a few around to actually know something about different cultures - so basically I like the tenacity but not the brains.

The problem is that America is in a fight of public opinion. If America stands up and says we're the moral gaurdian - which is the right wing religious stance of the Republicans then they have to MODEL that superior morality - the fact that the Arab soldiers treat American soldiers far worse doesn't get posted all over the tv. What these American soldiers did was NOTHING compared to what Arab soldiers do to American captives(well generally).

Rumsfeld however ordered soldiers to do these kinds of things and now he looks like a boob...if they're going to use the excuse "I was just following orders" and we accept that - then the guy who gave the orders should get canned. On the other hand free thinking people should disobay bad orders when it is so blatently obvious the orders are wrong. Easier said than done - but then you don't have to look like you enjoy the orders - and those pictures show they enjoyed it - simple - that excuse is BS.

So I guess I think the whole thing is blown way out of perspective - but on the other hand it goes to show that so called superior morality is an untruth. There are foreign countries which on a humanistic level are far superior to the cold money grubbing society of the west. I participated in a simulation used in Social Studies classes in Canada and it was quite a startling revelation that what seems backward at first is quite the reverse. The American Public school system relies very heavily on a single textbook for Social Studies and looks inward to the exclusion of all else - and worse from one perspective. American Schools are not created equally either from what I can gather as one rich school will have all the best resources but if you're in a low rent district your education could be total crap not even taught by an actuall accredited teacher. SO it's no wonder you take some dumb 18 year old kid from some poor town and there are serious issues. Then again Canadian soldiers were nailed recently for similar actions in another country which is why I say the military is a breeding ground for the fringe.

That's not to say that the majority are not "good" people they are - just that we need those ones in charge - I'm thinking Platoon. We want DaFoe in charge not Berringer.

[JSE]

I also think this has been way over blown. I also don't think the Iraqi people in general really give a crap. They want their lives improved through better power, water, jobs, security, freedom, schools, money, etc. The people who these things were done to were for the most part Saddam loyalists. I don't think the majority of Iraqis care what happens to them. It is clear though that the media's of the world will continue to blow this way way out of proportion. It's hot news. That's what they want. I also belive the liberals will also continue to drag this out as long as they can. They will try and get as much mileage out of it as possible. Will it work? Not sure. I have not really payed attention to the polls lately. Does Bush seem to be taking a hit because of this?

Should we have been doing these things to these people? I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe not. Should these idiots have let cameras in the area. Uh, NO! We got caught. Now we need to suck it up and say we are sorry in words and by our actions.

I am also torn as to how and to what extent these soldiers need to be punished. I am sure they were following someone's orders so I am not sure I would hold them 100% accountable. Although, the ones with big smiled on their faces and the one's obviously having fun, don't get much sympathy from me.

Most people I have spoken to about this really don't care. They don't really have a problems with what the soldiers did but rather a problem with how they did it and the fact that they captured it on film.

RGA stated that Rumsfeld gave the orders. How do you know this? I have not seen anything that states he gave specific orders for these soldiers to do this to the prisoners. I really don't think he personally had anything to do with it. Should he be held accountable? That's a tough one. I don't think so but it may come down to the US saving face, right or wrong.

One thing is for sure. These type of tactics will continue to be used. They always have and always will and I am not really against it.

JSE

[RGA]

Rumbsfeld was the one who decided that they were not going to follow the Geneva conventions and also tried to cover over the mess along with a general but I forget the name.

Rumsfeld has been caught in another lie stating that this is just an isolated incident of a very few - butnow it appears that was a deliberate untruth because another photo is out from a completely different camp of a naked Iraqi surrounded by three soldiers who set a dog(s) on him for fun - a few other photos apparently see him bleeding from the bites.

The other issue is that the Red Cross has come out with evidence that a very high percentage of these captives turned out to have nothing to do with anything - ie innocent civilians not Saddam Loyalists.

Basically it's a all a big giant mess. I stress that this happens with all militaries - absolute power corrupts absolutely and when these people have other people's lives in their hands - and those in control are not "nice" folks then this kind of brutality happens --- and "nice" people are not the ones who typically want to go into a war zone to kill people.

I am not a left or a right winger and I try as best as i can to see the reasoning of the political party in charge. In Rumsfeld's defense not aligning with the Geneva Conventions does not mean that he thought this would happen. And then when he found out about it I don't really blame hime for trying to get it shelved. The Arab world is, let's face it, generally anti-American - they don't like western values and when they see pictures of their people being humiliated - by women no less - it adds to their fear of what the pagan west is all about.


These kinds of pictures only add to their belief that America claims to have high moral standards and yet the pictures show that not to be the case. I always say it and I sound like a broken record but America is in a no win situation whenerver they do anything outside their own country. America recently offerred aid in Iran but they wanted to send a team to see how the donations would be used(under some cover excuse) because Iran is a totally untrustworthy country and would probably steal all the supplies and let their people starve. The American understandably wanted to be sure the aid went where it was supposed to go. But then all the Anti-Americans come out and scream that America is trying to run Iran blah blah blah. So even when they provide more aid than every other country in the world combined provided they get blasted.

That's not to say I support going into Iraq. I support it because I believe all dictators should be destroyed(except Castro), but to link it to 911 without proof is a lie - I'd far rather Bush just tell it like it is to him. But he needed an excuse to make up for Papa's mistake --- The mistake? Paying attention to the most ridiculous corrupt sleazy entity on the planet - otherwise known as the U.N.

[JSE]

Rumbsfeld was the one who decided that they were not going to follow the Geneva conventions and also tried to cover over the mess along with a general but I forget the name.

Rumsfeld has been caught in another lie stating that this is just an isolated incident of a very few - butnow it appears that was a deliberate untruth because another photo is out from a completely different camp of a naked Iraqi surrounded by three soldiers who set a dog(s) on him for fun - a few other photos apparently see him bleeding from the bites.

The other issue is that the Red Cross has come out with evidence that a very high percentage of these captives turned out to have nothing to do with anything - ie innocent civilians not Saddam Loyalists.

Basically it's a all a big giant mess. I stress that this happens with all militaries - absolute power corrupts absolutely and when these people have other people's lives in their hands - and those in control are not "nice" folks then this kind of brutality happens --- and "nice" people are not the ones who typically want to go into a war zone to kill people.

I am not a left or a right winger and I try as best as i can to see the reasoning of the political party in charge. In Rumsfeld's defense not aligning with the Geneva Conventions does not mean that he thought this would happen. And then when he found out about it I don't really blame hime for trying to get it shelved. The Arab world is, let's face it, generally anti-American - they don't like western values and when they see pictures of their people being humiliated - by women no less - it adds to their fear of what the pagan west is all about.


These kinds of pictures only add to their belief that America claims to have high moral standards and yet the pictures show that not to be the case. I always say it and I sound like a broken record but America is in a no win situation whenerver they do anything outside their own country. America recently offerred aid in Iran but they wanted to send a team to see how the donations would be used(under some cover excuse) because Iran is a totally untrustworthy country and would probably steal all the supplies and let their people starve. The American understandably wanted to be sure the aid went where it was supposed to go. But then all the Anti-Americans come out and scream that America is trying to run Iran blah blah blah. So even when they provide more aid than every other country in the world combined provided they get blasted.

That's not to say I support going into Iraq. I support it because I believe all dictators should be destroyed(except Castro), but to link it to 911 without proof is a lie - I'd far rather Bush just tell it like it is to him. But he needed an excuse to make up for Papa's mistake --- The mistake? Paying attention to the most ridiculous corrupt sleazy entity on the planet - otherwise known as the U.N.

Why not Castro?

JSE

[Woochifer]

I also think this has been way over blown. I also don't think the Iraqi people in general really give a crap. They want their lives improved through better power, water, jobs, security, freedom, schools, money, etc. The people who these things were done to were for the most part Saddam loyalists. I don't think the majority of Iraqis care what happens to them.

Actually, the Red Cross report from February said that the vast majority of prisoners (70-90% estimated by coalition intelligence) in Iraq were detained by mistake during sweeps. I also read that in Iraq, you had prisoners who were detained for months without even being charged with any crimes. And even if these prisoners were Saddam loyalists that Iraqis don't give a crap about, or we as Americans don't care about, the simple fact is that there are now documented cases of American soldiers violating the very Geneva Convention that Rumsfeld and other Pentagon officials more or less said that the U.S. would follow.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...-iraq-complete

It is clear though that the media's of the world will continue to blow this way way out of proportion. It's hot news. That's what they want. I also belive the liberals will also continue to drag this out as long as they can. They will try and get as much mileage out of it as possible. Will it work? Not sure. I have not really payed attention to the polls lately. Does Bush seem to be taking a hit because of this?

Yes and no. I think there are plenty of issues that the media will blow out of proportion, but that's just part and parcel of the instant gratification saturation of news that we get nowadays, and the groupspeak that emerges when you have news organizations trying to one up one another over identical stories.

While I think a lot of liberals have tried to drag it out, I think there are equally disingenuous conservative voices out there that are trying to say that this is just soldiers blowing off steam or that it's no big deal. There are now 25 prison deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan under investigation, and to them what's going on in these prisons is no big deal? Yet, the right wing talk was in a bloodlust frenzy when those four American contractors were killed.

As far as the polls go, I don't think they matter one iota five months before the election. But, as it stands, Bush has held his poll position despite all the bad news coming out of Iraq in April.

Should we have been doing these things to these people? I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe not. Should these idiots have let cameras in the area. Uh, NO! We got caught. Now we need to suck it up and say we are sorry in words and by our actions.

Agreed, I'd like to think that we're better than that. I've read that the unpublished photos now making their way around Washington are even worse than the ones that have gone public. Unfortunately, a picture says a thousand words, and I think this whole thing has become a firestorm because the actions and abuses are there in bold relief for the world to see. If just the Red Cross and Maj.Gen. Taguba reports had gone public without accompanying pictures, then I doubt it would have made the kind of impact that it has. People can read about stuff and distance themselves from what it means, but when seeing it, you have no way to tune it out, it's just there.

Actions will ultimately have to speak louder than words, but I was reading another high ranking military officer who said that this scandal means that we'll have to do decades of good deeds now in order to live this down in the eyes of Muslims and Arabs.

I am also torn as to how and to what extent these soldiers need to be punished. I am sure they were following someone's orders so I am not sure I would hold them 100% accountable. Although, the ones with big smiled on their faces and the one's obviously having fun, don't get much sympathy from me.

Most people I have spoken to about this really don't care. They don't really have a problems with what the soldiers did but rather a problem with how they did it and the fact that they captured it on film.

I think Col. David Hackworth's latest column is an interesting read, because while he thinks a lot of the higher ups are getting off easy, he doesn't think that the grunts on the ground lack accountability either.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/c...18057891674218

If people don't care about how we treat Iraqi prisoners (especially if that Red Cross report is correct about up to 90% of detainees in custody by mistake), then why care at all about the mission in Iraq? We sunken $180 billion and thousands of casualties on both sides so far. If the mission is about nation-building, then formenting distrust, resentment, and the need for revenge among the very people that we're purportedly helping is the surest way to failure.

RGA stated that Rumsfeld gave the orders. How do you know this? I have not seen anything that states he gave specific orders for these soldiers to do this to the prisoners. I really don't think he personally had anything to do with it. Should he be held accountable? That's a tough one. I don't think so but it may come down to the US saving face, right or wrong.

I read that it was military intelligence and private contractors (who are basically mercenaries) that systematically created the whole routine. This was their way of extracting information, consequences be damned. I doubt that Rumsfeld gave the direct order, but there are more than enough layers in the command who at least knew about it such that you cannot lay it solely at the feet of a few rogue soldiers who were acting on their own initiative. Somebody fairly high up in the Pentagon had this in mind and implemented it. Rumsfeld very well might take the fall just to keep the scope of who knew about what was going on and who ordered it under wraps.

One thing is for sure. These type of tactics will continue to be used. They always have and always will and I am not really against it.

JSE

Yes, but if you were the victim of this kind of treatment and you're just as innocent as some if not most of those prisoners in Iraq, I get the impression you might sing a different tune.

[RGA]

Why not Castro?

JSE

Because Castro is not what the Republicans would have you believe they're about. Firstly Castro is not communist - he was backed by Russia because without backing Castro could have been stomped in 48hours and back then Russia was more than happy to make the U.S look foolish.

America has bad bedfellows and wonders why the crumbs get pissed off. American Corporations were in bed with one of the worst dictators ever to walk this earth in Batista. The rich who supported this man had a nice little empire going until Mr. Castro overthrew Batista military killing him. Where Castro went overboard was when he decided that he was going to punish the bedfoellow by kicking out ALL American Companies - even this would not have pissed off the US too much but Castro didn't compensate the American companies who spent a lot of money setting the companies up. Castro basically flippedthe bird and said you supportted a brutal dictator so you can get the hell out. The rich Cubans who sold their own people out for years of course fled the country and flocked to Miami and Floorida - and they still ***** to this day about Castro the evil dictator when what they are really mad about is losing lots of slave money.

That doesn't excuse Castro of everything either but it is a reaosn that a lot of more forward thinking people and other democratic Nations like Canada still talk to Castro and buy from Cuba - it's a very big holiday spot for Canadians and you can buy their nice cigars here as well.

People will complain that Castro is a dictator but in reality Canada is led by a dictator and to an extent so is the US. It's just semantics - if you have a despotic dictator it can work and more or less that is what Castor is. Their people have a lousy lot in life because America refuses to be a trading partner - understandable because Castro kicked them out with compensation so maybe he would do that again - so to America he probably can't be trusted. But, I don't get that sense - times have changed. Indeed, Cuba under Castro can boast higher literacy levels than those in the far richer merica or even Canada.

America has bullied other countries into not engaging in trade over the years and as a result Cuba is a poor country...the people may blame Castro - but the wrong end of the stick in many people's view.

In a strange way America's own paranoia adds gas to flame. Vietnam for instance. Ho Chi Min(SP?) was not a communist - America forced him to become one - I give credit to Nixon for figuring that out.

[karl k]

Because Castro is not what the Republicans would have you believe they're about. Firstly Castro is not communist - he was backed by Russia because without backing Castro could have been stomped in 48hours and back then Russia was more than happy to make the U.S look foolish.

America has bad bedfellows and wonders why the crumbs get pissed off. American Corporations were in bed with one of the worst dictators ever to walk this earth in Batista. The rich who supported this man had a nice little empire going until Mr. Castro overthrew Batista military killing him. Where Castro went overboard was when he decided that he was going to punish the bedfoellow by kicking out ALL American Companies - even this would not have pissed off the US too much but Castro didn't compensate the American companies who spent a lot of money setting the companies up. Castro basically flippedthe bird and said you supportted a brutal dictator so you can get the hell out. The rich Cubans who sold their own people out for years of course fled the country and flocked to Miami and Floorida - and they still ***** to this day about Castro the evil dictator when what they are really mad about is losing lots of slave money.

That doesn't excuse Castro of everything either but it is a reaosn that a lot of more forward thinking people and other democratic Nations like Canada still talk to Castro and buy from Cuba - it's a very big holiday spot for Canadians and you can buy their nice cigars here as well.

People will complain that Castro is a dictator but in reality Canada is led by a dictator and to an extent so is the US. It's just semantics - if you have a despotic dictator it can work and more or less that is what Castor is. Their people have a lousy lot in life because America refuses to be a trading partner - understandable because Castro kicked them out with compensation so maybe he would do that again - so to America he probably can't be trusted. But, I don't get that sense - times have changed. Indeed, Cuba under Castro can boast higher literacy levels than those in the far richer merica or even Canada.

America has bullied other countries into not engaging in trade over the years and as a result Cuba is a poor country...the people may blame Castro - but the wrong end of the stick in many people's view.

In a strange way America's own paranoia adds gas to flame. Vietnam for instance. Ho Chi Min(SP?) was not a communist - America forced him to become one - I give credit to Nixon for figuring that out.

BTW, I like the Dalek(sp?) avatar! Some of the best episodes ever with them in it! I still remember Leela, Sarah, and Tegan in the show as well.
Always liked Tom Baker, had style about him and that wicked smile!




Good thread, I understand where you come from. Wish more did.

[RGA]

Wow I can't believe how many actually have seen and liked Dr. Who. I didn't even know the show ran in the U.S. until Woochifer and now yourself.

When I was a kid I had a huge crush on Leela - lot of skin and I liked tough no nonsense women :-)

Tom Baker was a hoot always wished he had made it bigger - he had the talent but he liked the bottle apparently.

As for politics it is very tough because the University is a very left wing organization that seems to shout down and right wing policy - does not matter if there is a real point - it is completely ignored.

For instance each week we have a round table discussion on tv for an hour about events with an ex NDP member(Well Left of your democrats - and a ex-conservative who would be perhaps a bit left of your Republicans(maybe left on social but right on finance).

Being from Canada you get several versions of events - the American version the CBC's version the BBC's version and none of it is the truth LOL.

People here say the CNN is all self-interest blah blah and while the CNN panders to the lowest common denominator with tag lines like "America Strikes Back" as if 9/11 were some kind of Star Wars movie - we can't just throw it all away. And academic papers are great but they come years after the event. None of us reallyknow for sure the reasons or motivations of the people in the know.

So we go hard left or hard right - To me, using an airplane analogy, if you stay on either wing all you do is go round in circles. America is the head honcho and everyone wants to pull them down and make them look bad.

For instance the media has blown this storry of mal-treatment and all the other countries are bl;asting America - but now that some group has decapitated an American Citizen in retribution - will these same people scream at the middle east for this horrible treatment - abuse versus a MURDER?

People scream about going into Iraq but what about Saddam gassing over 200,000 people? An act tantamount to an attempt at genocide --- why were these activists not EVER once decrying these actions? Where were the human shields for those innocent people? I'm not sad to see Saddam go and people like him - and maybe no one likes America to be the enforcer(largely because people worry about religious people doing things for apparently religious reasons) - and let's face it Bush is a hick - he seems irrational and knee jerk actions. A smarter leader would have seen the issues they're faced with now(a total disaster) a mile down the road. But on the flip side you can't warn and warn and threaten and threaten because it is meaningless to people like Saddam if you don't have the balls to follow through on your warning. Any parenting class or Teacher knows this - the overly left wing folks who read Dr. Spock's drivel may not get it but that's why everyone whines about their lot in life rather than doing something about it.

So I'm a centerist - too many issues to just lump into two parties. in Canada we have several which makes it less helpful. The right is too scary the left borders on communism and the Liberal lie cheat and steal - but philisophically they pander to all - tough to argue so naturally they're always in power.

Sign me up for the new society on Mars - I hope it's a giant Hugh Hefner Groto - make love not war - and Hugh is always smiling so maybe he has the answer.

[oakley#36]

Yes I'm still enjoying the AN's - best piece I've ever had.

I'm actually not going to make a huge deal of what these soldiers did. The fact is there is a large segment that borders on the fringe or low moral standard and that percentage is likely higher in the military. The difference today and the early 90s is that America is trying to stick this one out - which history has shown that when America does the usual gun and quick pull-out is the very reason you have Bin Laden running a country to start with - remember America set that guy up with arms and power against the Russians - so i'm happy to see they're not pulling out quite so fast and are attempting to stick to a plan. Though the plan is pretty lousy but only because Bush doesn't like educated people according to him and unfortunately you need a few around to actually know something about different cultures - so basically I like the tenacity but not the brains.

The problem is that America is in a fight of public opinion. If America stands up and says we're the moral gaurdian - which is the right wing religious stance of the Republicans then they have to MODEL that superior morality - the fact that the Arab soldiers treat American soldiers far worse doesn't get posted all over the tv. What these American soldiers did was NOTHING compared to what Arab soldiers do to American captives(well generally).

Rumsfeld however ordered soldiers to do these kinds of things and now he looks like a boob...if they're going to use the excuse "I was just following orders" and we accept that - then the guy who gave the orders should get canned. On the other hand free thinking people should disobay bad orders when it is so blatently obvious the orders are wrong. Easier said than done - but then you don't have to look like you enjoy the orders - and those pictures show they enjoyed it - simple - that excuse is BS.

So I guess I think the whole thing is blown way out of perspective - but on the other hand it goes to show that so called superior morality is an untruth. There are foreign countries which on a humanistic level are far superior to the cold money grubbing society of the west. I participated in a simulation used in Social Studies classes in Canada and it was quite a startling revelation that what seems backward at first is quite the reverse. The American Public school system relies very heavily on a single textbook for Social Studies and looks inward to the exclusion of all else - and worse from one perspective. American Schools are not created equally either from what I can gather as one rich school will have all the best resources but if you're in a low rent district your education could be total crap not even taught by an actuall accredited teacher. SO it's no wonder you take some dumb 18 year old kid from some poor town and there are serious issues. Then again Canadian soldiers were nailed recently for similar actions in another country which is why I say the military is a breeding ground for the fringe.

That's not to say that the majority are not "good" people they are - just that we need those ones in charge - I'm thinking Platoon. We want DaFoe in charge not Berringer.

Look I agree with about 85% of what your saying here, but the problem with American schools can't be compare to Canadian schools. Your country is beautiful, and I love HOCKEY but your population is about 30 million people. So compare Canada to lets say OHIO. My kid can learn about different cultures in depth, when she goes to college. I'm not slamming Canada, I agree with you...people need to teach their children. Its not the Governments job to raise your kids. And people need to be held accoutable for their actions. If someone tells you to do something you know is wrong or immoral question them. Are ability to make decisions between Right & Wrong is why we're at the top of the food chain.

[GooseWashington]

Damn, what a strange times we live in. Sometimes, I wish nothing like that never happend

[BillShiphr]

Can you tell a Russian in the states from an American? I mean, apart from the obvious accent in some people. I think Russians are pretty good at learning the language and assimilating, so I'd bet. On the other hand, they are easily identified by their mentality. Russians are quite lazy and therefore do not like bureaucracy. Many people turn to this site in order to solve problems with documents and passports only in order not to fly to their homeland.

[HardissonHard]

It is good that almost anyone can find a job now. Our time is too strange. It would be awful if we were refused work for some stupid reason. I found a job recently at https://jooble.org/jobs-remote-copy-editor which is a great option for me because I haven't worked at all for a very long time. It's hard for me to get used to work, but it's a necessity.