NFL Lawsuits over Concussions

[Hyfi]

Just curious what everyone thinks.

I don't think it's right that these guys choose to play a contact sport, basically run into walls with their heads, and then turn around and sue their employer who made it possible for dropouts and criminals to become millionaires.

Like they did not know when they were young that repeated shots to any part of the body could be harmful?
Why are the lawsuits not targeting Little League where they started, High Schools, College? Oh, because the NFL has deeper pockets I guess.

Isn't this as bad as drinking alcohol until you get kidney failure and then suing the distillery?
What about smoking cigarettes, with a death warning on the pack, until you get cancer and then suing the tobacco company?

Here is a novel idea. How about people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stupidity?

I played Soccer from 5 years old until High School. I almost never Headed the ball because A- it hurt and B- if it hurts, maybe you should not keep doing it. I didn't need a lawsuit or anything / anyone else to tell me it was stupid to keep doing it.

[Feanor]

As I hear it, the NFL told players not to worry and encouraged them to ignore having their "bell rung" and get back out on the field, etc. This when the League knew better. Nah!! Sue the living crap out of the NFL. The argument, "They should have known better", just doesn't cut it. If the players should have known better, so should the NFL. Nobody employer be allowed to deliberately expose workers to danger while denying there is any.

[Hyfi]

But it's a contact sport. Legs get broken, ACLs get torn, shoulders get dislocated. They are told the pads they wear will keep them safe. Why are they not suing for all those injuries?

Seems like if you are stupid enough to believe that getting hit in the head daily, no matter what you are wearing and no matter what anyone tells you, gets you the results they now have.

I guess Boxing and Hockey and Soccer will be next. All Soccer coaches encourage heading the ball. Are we all stupid enough to keep doing it?

[JohnMichael]

For this thread to continue I think it needs more facts and less supposition. The initial post is insulting and inflammatory to athletes. Medicine is discovering long term brain damage that resembles Alzheimer's disease. More fact please.

[Hyfi]

For this thread to continue I think it needs more facts and less supposition. The initial post is insulting and inflammatory to athletes. Medicine is discovering long term brain damage the resembles Alzheimer's disease. More fact please.

Just lock and delete the thread then.

[JohnMichael]

I asked for facts from the OP and I decided to reopen and supply my own facts.

The players were not well informed about head injuries and long term effects.

The NFL is accused of hiding what it knew about players' head injuries. The players' union is getting second-guessed for not taking safety more seriously. And another judge is getting familiar with all the legal arguments.
Concussions in Forefront as NFL Season Opens - ABC News

A player understanding and accepting the risks.

Ask Jacksonville Jaguars running back Maurice Jones-Drew whether he would try to play through a concussion or yank himself from a game, and he'll provide a straightforward answer.

"Hide it," the NFL's leading rusher said.

"The bottom line is: You have to be able to put food on the table. No one's going to sign or want a guy who can't stay healthy. I know there will be a day when I'm going to have trouble walking. I realize that," Jones-Drew said. "But this is what I signed up for. Injuries are part of the game. If you don't want to get hit, then you shouldn't be playing."
NFL players say hiding concussions still an option - ESPN

Junior Seau shot himself in the chest so his brain could be studied.

Junior Seau, the former National Football League linebacker who committed suicide in May, was suffering from a brain disease caused by repeated head injuries associated with contact sports.

Brain-tissue samples showed Seau had chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a progressive disease diagnosed after death, according to a statement today from the National Institutes of Health, which funds medical research. Seau’s family sent his brain tissue to researchers in July 2012, two months after he shot himself in the chest at his home in Oceanside, California.
Ex-NFL Player Seau Had Brain Disease From Head Injuries - Bloomberg

[markw]

As long as they are given the choice of either playing through the pain and getting paid those fantastic salaries, or losing money by bowing out for their own good, whose fault is it if they choose the former?

Perhaps they should change the league rules so they only play touch football. That'll solve these problems.

[JohnMichael]

I think the point is they were not given all the information to make the right choice for themselves. Also medicine and science are only now discovering how multiple concussions can alter the brain. Why are the team owners and NFL not insisting on better helmets?

Of course I put as much blame on the fans who want to watch aggressive games and delight when opposing team members are hurt. Makes me wonder if gladiators have not morphed into football players.

[ForeverAutumn]

Perhaps they should change the league rules so they only play touch football. That'll solve these problems.

I know that nobody here watches indoor lacrosse, but it's a rough sport. Rougher than hockey in many ways as players cannot only physically check their opponents but can hit them with their sticks also.

At the start of the 2013 season, the league implemented in-game protocols to deal with how suspected concussions must be assessed and dealt with at the time that they happen (National Lacrosse League introduces new rules to deal with head injuries | IL Indoor).

I believe that it's up to any employer to do everything in their power to reduce the risk to their employees...regardless of whether the employees are tackling each other on the field or worried about carpel tunnel syndrome from working on a computer.

If the NFL is not doing everything possible to reduce the risk, they are at fault.

[Hyfi]

I asked for facts from the OP and I decided to reopen and supply my own facts.

Maybe if you re-read the OP, you would realize it is a question on opinions. I supplied no facts because I was not arguing or discussing facts. I asked what people thought about the lawsuits.

I pointed out that if you hurt yourself over and over and it hurts, why would you keep doing it.

Your form of moderation, locking and deleting, and then reopening so you can have more say pretty much S@cks.

If you hammer your thumb woodworking, does it hurt? Will you try not to hammer your thumb again? Do you REALY need someone else to tell you that it might or might not hurt? If I give you Millions of dollars a year and tell you it really does not hurt, will you take the money? You betcha because money comes before brains.

I did not insult athletes and I also talked about my own time playing soccer and how I may have been just a little smarter than others by refusing to head the ball. The athletes know damn well that it hurts but the millions win over.

So with all you facts you now have, why don't you address the questions?
Why are they not suing Little League, High Schools, Colleges where it all started? How many times have we heard little league coaches tell a kid to "Walk it off and get back in there" when he knew his star player was hurting?

You may as well lock it back up and delete it as it seems that may be your new hobby.

[markw]

Just discovering the dangers? Really?

It's been known to boxers for years that repeated blows to the head can cause harm. Nobody ever drew thw parallel between them and football players?

Face it, the dangers are well known and have been. That's why they make the big bucks. Everyone knows that they face physical risks and their time in the sport is most likely limited and yet they still willingly jump at the chance to face them, and are handsomely rewarded or their sacrifice.

And, JM, you're right. I've been saying for years that football players are modern form of gladiators. Just like people secretly hope for a fiery crash at a motorcar event and cheer on fights at hockey games, a bit of blood makes some peoples everyday lives seem a bit more enjoyable.

Bread and circuses, bread and circuses...

And, as long as we continue to watch and cheer these events and moreso, pay these people such ridiclous money to willingly subject themselves to such abuse, it'll never change.

[Hyfi]

For this thread to continue I think it needs more facts and less supposition. The initial post is insulting and inflammatory to athletes. Medicine is discovering long term brain damage that resembles Alzheimer's disease. More fact please.

I like how you also edited this response so it is not your original.

[JohnMichael]

Just lock and delete the thread then.

"I asked you where you found your information. Was there any facts or just opinion. I was curious about some of the statements you made."

sue their employer who made it possible for dropouts and criminals to become millionaires.

Like they did not know when they were young that repeated shots to any part of the body could be harmful?

What about smoking cigarettes, with a death warning on the pack, until you get cancer and then suing the tobacco company?

"Actually people have sued the tobacco companies because they withheld information from their customers and added chemicals to make them more addicting"

[JohnMichael]

I like how you also edited this response so it is not your original.

I made a spelling error and grammar correction. I typed the when I meant to type that.

[JohnMichael]

Your form of moderation, locking and deleting, and then reopening so you can have more say pretty much S@cks.

You may as well lock it back up and delete it as it seems that may be your new hobby.

I thought it might be a more interesting thread if it included facts of actual cases or athletes involved. When I asked you to add that you suggested I lock and close the thread. I thought the thread had merit if some articles were added to discuss the issues. That is why I added some info and links then reopened and left it open so others could contribute. Some may cut and paste or include links to pertinent articles. I find this more credible than saying they are dropouts and criminals.

As far as threads I began about the fun I was having with the hobby I physically removed them because I felt I had been insulted enough. Questions regarding my mental health were uncalled for but after your post questioning my editing one of my posts I now question your state of being. Why would I want to reread insults to myself?

[ForeverAutumn]

Play nice or I will lock and delete this thread. Let's stick to the topic.

Nobody needs to justify their reasons for editing their own posts.

[ForeverAutumn]

And, as long as we continue to watch and cheer these events and moreso, pay these people such ridiclous money to willingly subject themselves to such abuse, it'll never change.

This is the truth. Not just on this topic specifically but in the sports and entertainment field in general. I ranted and raved about the hockey lockout last year. How both sides were making so much money that I couldn't have any sympathy for either of them. That the fans needed to send a message by not going to games...but as soon as the lockout ended, there I was wearing my jersey and watching games. I hung my head low in shame, but I still watched with excitement.

And this year the Leafs have raised ticket prices. It serves the fans right.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think that there is a difference between boxers getting repeatedly punched in the head and the concussion injuries that football and hockey players sustain.

I add hockey into the discussion because (a) I know nothing about football and (b) there are several hockey players who have suffered the same injuries and related illnesses that the football lawsuit is based on.

I think that athletes have a right to sue their league for negligence just as any employee has a right to sue their employer. That doesn’t, however, mean that they will win. The onus will be on the players to prove that the league truly was negligent. There is so much new and recent information coming out with regards to these types of brain injuries.

In some respects I agree with Hyfi. I know that smoking causes cancer so I don’t do it. But there was a time when smokers were getting cancer but nobody had yet made the connection of cause and effect.

I suspect this will, in the future, be seen along those lines. Sure concussions hurt and cause temporary problems. But people heal, right? For decades, athletes have healed. After retirement they start to get depressed, do drugs, and eventually maybe even commit suicide. But who would have thought that it was caused by previous injuries? Most people probably thought it was just the after effects of retirement…not being able to play the game they spent their whole lives playing. Or whatever. It’s only recently that we’ve discovered the cause and effect of this. So did the players really know what they were getting into? Did the league know and not tell them?

I don’t think this is as cut and dry as “if it hurts don’t do it”. Athletes are trained to suck it up and deal with the pain. It’s part of the job description.

[Hyfi]

I find this more credible than saying they are dropouts and criminals.

Mike Vick, and Hernandez

And again you twist my words to what you think you read, and more reason to re-read and comprehend. I did not say they were all dropouts and criminals. I said, and I quote myself "their employer who made it possible for dropouts and criminals to become millionaires."

Oh, and sorry I insulted you in your speaker thread by claiming you were educated

[markw]

I think that there is a difference between boxers getting repeatedly punched in the head and the concussion injuries that football and hockey players sustain.

Dunno about that. Both entail their brains bouncing off the inside of theirskulls. I think boxers actually suffer the greater risk since their head is the intended target from the get-go and with ball players, it's just an incidental risk since the body is the main target, and they do wear headgear which, unfortunately, cannot protect the brain from hitting up agiinst the inside of the skull upon sharp impact.

I add hockey into the discussion because (a) I know nothing about football and (b) there are several hockey players who have suffered the same injuries and related illnesses that the football lawsuit is based on.

I think that athletes have a right to sue their league for negligence just as any employee has a right to sue their employer. That doesn’t, however, mean that they will win. The onus will be on the players to prove that the league truly was negligent. There is so much new and recent information coming out with regards to these types of brain injuries.

so, should one be sued for something that was done in the past, the dangers od which they weren't aware of until recently?

In some respects I agree with Hyfi. I know that smoking causes cancer so I don’t do it. But there was a time when smokers were getting cancer but nobody had yet made the connection of cause and effect.

See my previous statement.

[QUOTE=ForeverAutumn;396278]I suspect this will, in the future, be seen along those lines. Sure concussions hurt and cause temporary problems. But people heal, right? For decades, athletes have healed. After retirement they start to get depressed, do drugs, and eventually maybe even commit suicide. But who would have thought that it was caused by previous injuries? Most people probably thought it was just the after effects of retirement…not being able to play the game they spent their whole lives playing. Or whatever. It’s only recently that we’ve discovered the cause and effect of this.Again, see my statement two paragraphs above.

So did the players really know what they were getting into? Did the league know and not tell them?

Are you saying the sports doctors were ahead of the rest of the medical profession in these areas and didn't share their knowledge? The players weren't free to see their own doctors?

I don’t think this is as cut and dry as “if it hurts don’t do it”. Athletes are trained to suck it up and deal with the pain. It’s part of the job description.

Well, if they wantto continue to get those fablous paychecks and endoesement dollars, it sure behooves them to, doesn't it?

[markw]

It' time we confronted the real danger of soccer players being taken...

[JohnMichael]

And again you twist my words to what you think you read, and more reason to re-read and comprehend. I did not say they were all dropouts and criminals. I said, and I quote myself "their employer who made it possible for dropouts and criminals to become millionaires."

So millionaire players in the NFL are dropouts and criminals?

[JohnMichael]

This is the truth. Not just on this topic specifically but in the sports and entertainment field in general. I ranted and raved about the hockey lockout last year. How both sides were making so much money that I couldn't have any sympathy for either of them. That the fans needed to send a message by not going to games...but as soon as the lockout ended, there I was wearing my jersey and watching games. I hung my head low in shame, but I still watched with excitement.

And this year the Leafs have raised ticket prices. It serves the fans right.

Much the same way I worry about dancers in ballets and musicals. Some are injured while performing and those with long careers have joint problems and pain later in life. They give their body for their art and we enjoy them in their prime. We pay to be entertained by the beauty they create but only remember the greats in years to come.

[Feanor]

I believe that it's up to any employer to do everything in their power to reduce the risk to their employees...regardless of whether the employees are tackling each other on the field or worried about carpel tunnel syndrome from working on a computer.

If the NFL is not doing everything possible to reduce the risk, they are at fault.

I agree.

NFL players, and yes, for a long time those in high school and college, were encouraged to get back on the field. Basically they were told that there was no harm in what was happening. Accordingly it cannot be argued that they ought to have chosen to stopped playing, because the didn't know they were receiving long term injuries.

The amount of money they were being paid is also irrelevant because they weren't in able to make choices based on full information.

[Hyfi]

I agree.



The amount of money they were being paid is also irrelevant because they weren't in able to make choices based on full information.

Most linemen average about 4 years until they blow their knees out. All the new guys know it may happen to them whether the league tells them one thing or another. They know they have to make as much money in a short time to live the rest of their lives because many of them have NO other skills and their NFL career will be short as opposed to most other careers.

I just dont buy into the idea that banging your head in any way, holding the second most precious part of the human body, is ok as long as nobody tells you it may be bad. Its just common sense to me.