New Computer questions:

[topspeed]

Hi, my name is Topspeed, and I'm a moron when it comes to computers.

(In unison, everyone says "Hi Topspeed!")

Alright all you computer gurus, I need your help. I'm replacing my 5 year old Dell desk top that seems to be crashing more and more lately. Main uses are internet and a little gaming (although I never game online). I don't need a "media center" as I have no idea what that is. For example, I couldn't follow the Xbox vs PS3 thread at all! I need something that can run multiple pages on the web at the same time, has enough storage for all my wife's iTunes, and can keep up with modern FPS games.

A friend of mine pointed me towards www.cyperpowerpc.com and said they could build a better, faster, and less expensive PC than Dell. My guess is that all computers are using some combination of the same components so you are likely paying a premium for the name on the case. Correct me if I'm wrong. I looked at the Dell XPS 420 which is very cool looking but seems like it might be a bit overkill. Either that or I need to expand my skill set.

My challenge is that I have no idea what any of the numbers and component names mean. Several people have recommended a Dual Core processor with at least 2g of memory to run Vista. Fine. What's the difference between a Dual Core, Quad Core, or AMD processor? How much storage do I need? Which graphics card should I get?

Any and all suggestions are gratefully accepted.

[JohnMichael]

Hi Topspeed! I too am a computer maroon. I have no advice I am just leaching on to this thread to learn. My almost ten year old Compaq may be giving up the ghost. If you do not mind I am going to learn along with you.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hi, my name is Topspeed, and I'm a moron when it comes to computers.

(In unison, everyone says "Hi Topspeed!")

Hi Imslo! This is going to be fun!

[kexodusc]

Hi, my name is Topspeed, and I'm a moron when it comes to computers.

(In unison, everyone says "Hi Topspeed!")

Alright all you computer gurus, I need your help. I'm replacing my 5 year old Dell desk top that seems to be crashing more and more lately. Main uses are internet and a little gaming (although I never game online). I don't need a "media center" as I have no idea what that is. For example, I couldn't follow the Xbox vs PS3 thread at all! I need something that can run multiple pages on the web at the same time, has enough storage for all my wife's iTunes, and can keep up with modern FPS games.

A friend of mine pointed me towards www.cyperpowerpc.com and said they could build a better, faster, and less expensive PC than Dell. My guess is that all computers are using some combination of the same components so you are likely paying a premium for the name on the case. Correct me if I'm wrong. I looked at the Dell XPS 420 which is very cool looking but seems like it might be a bit overkill. Either that or I need to expand my skill set.

My challenge is that I have no idea what any of the numbers and component names mean. Several people have recommended a Dual Core processor with at least 2g of memory to run Vista. Fine. What's the difference between a Dual Core, Quad Core, or AMD processor? How much storage do I need? Which graphics card should I get?

Any and all suggestions are gratefully accepted.

Speedy, I dont' think I can make this decision any easier for you, but I can say that you are correct about manufacturers just being "assemblers" these days. Most of the guts are made by a few reputable companies and it's just picking and choosing which pieces fit together in your fancy case that seems to pass for manufacturing today.
That said, I've noticed that Dell's aren't really that much more costly than even the DIY route these days, especially if you include the value of the OS and their service (which has improved quite a bit and was always as good as anyone's). I've never owned a Dell but I have enough family members who do that have taken advantage of Dell's service before and I've always been impressed, even if they are an easy target for computer geeks everywhere. It is relatively painless and easy when you need it and there's something to be said about that.

As far as what you need for processing - I'm partial to AMD for personal reasons but Intel currently seems to have the slight edge in the performance war at the high end again after falling behind for several years. Doesn't matter which one you get, though I would argue AMD's are priced a wee bit better at a given performance level at all but the highest points. When you turn the thing on, you won't know whether it's an Intel or AMD other than by the sticker on the front. If you can get the latest greatest Quad Core, go for it, if not, no biggy. How much gaming are you planning on doing? Your video card will be the determining factor in your gaming experience. Don't skimp out there.

Considering this is something you are likely to use for 3, 4, maybe even 5 years, the model you've suggested, would seem to be fairly decent. Doesn't look like you're going to max out it's abilities any time soon. You can always upgrade the video card periodically to keep up with gaming. Whether you buy it from Dell or not depends on the deals you can find.

Tiger Direct and other online shops have decent deals quite often if you think you can figure out what system specs you need. If I was buying a machine right now, I wouldn't even get something as powerful as that Dell - mostly because I don't game on my PC much and I rarely run Windows so my system requirements are considerably lower. There's probably something to be said for overdoing it now to accomodate your needs if your demands increase in the next two years or so.

The only advise I would really give you is to make sure you get the 64-bit version of Windows. If your salesperson doesn't know if it's 64-bit, you need another salesperson. You don't want to be stuck in 32-bit land in 2 years when the world moves on, ask anyone who had Windows 98 on 16 bit systems. You don't have to know what any of that means, other than 64-bit is better for you. I would think most new machines come with the 64-bit version by default now but ya never know.

[Rich-n-Texas]

This is my signature that I use on the nVnews forum:

Gigabyte P35-DS3R MB - Intel C2D E6750 - Corsair XMS2 2GB memory
EVGA 8600GTS graphics - SB Audigy 2 ZS audio driving Logitech Z-5500's
Acer 22" widescreen LCD on the A side - NEC FE991SB on the B side
Antec EA430W PSU - Antec SLK 3700AMB case
2x WD 160GB Caviar HDD's in Raid 0

I put this together myself this year for a little over $1K and it includes a 22" widescreen LCD monitor. Some parts (case, second DVD burner, sound card, 19" monitor) are leftovers from my previous build. I do quite a bit of FPS gaming and am a big advocate of the DIY mindset. The good thing about my setup is I can replace the current Core 2 Duo CPU with a Quad core down the road if I want with minimul effort. I don't think that's possible with a Dell, but I could be wrong.

It's true though that if you don't want the hassle of buying parts and assembling your own rig, a Dell would be a good mainstream PC to consider. I don't like Dell's because in the past they were very un-expandable; fitment of expansion cards was always an issue and if you wanted to upgrade you had to buy their components because the motherboard had built-in proprietaryness (probably not a word but you get the idea).

As far as Dell CS, I've heard the exact opposite from what Kex describes as "which has improved quite a bit and was always as good as anyone's", but that's all subjective anyway. I do agree that if you want to get into gaming then make sure your graphics card is up to the challenge. While my nVidia 8600 GTS card runs graphics intensive games like Doom 3, Halo, Half-Life 2 very well (+60 fps), some of the new titles like STALKER are giving me issues, although I'm not 100% sure yet the problem is with the card.

Oh and, you can't overclock a Dell.

[Rich-n-Texas]

BTW, both rigs were built just about exclusively using parts purchased from online retailer www.newegg.com

[topspeed]

What the heck is overclocking? Reviews of the cyberpowerpc units mention overclocked computers, is that good?

My friend recommended a NVidia 8800. I upgraded the graphics card to a NVidia 5500 in my Dell a few years back in an attempt to play Half Life 2, but that less than successfull. Graphics were very herky jerky, although that could be a memory shortage (256k ram) more than a vid card problem.

What are some of the base line standards you guys would recommend? How much memory, HD size, vid card, audio card, blahblahblah? Any opinions on cyberpowerpc?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Overclocking is just what it sounds like. The CPU clock frequency is changed to improve overall performance (progams load and respond faster, game frame rates increase etc...)

Any computer running Windows XP would need a minimum of 512K of memory, and more is always better. With todays PC's and Windows Vista operating system, a minimum of 1 gigabyte of memory is preferred. Most if not all Dell's are now shipping with Vista. Vista also depends on the graphics processor for the Windows Aero user interface, and I'm assuming Dell puts enough processing power into their models so this doesn't become an issue.

The nVidia 8800 is a very smart choice, but you're going to pay for it. It costs over $200 which is why I had to pass on it. nVidia has a trade-up program which can be found on their website so you can always go that route.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Here ya go Speedy: http://computershopper.com/

You can pick up the magazine (more like a catalog) at most book/magazine sections at your grocery store and most certainly at the Borders and Barns & Nobles of the world. This will answer a lot of your questions and allow you to make well educated decisions.

[Groundbeef]

Ok, I have finally gotten down to your question, and I want to 1st ask another.

What is your budget? Do you want another desk computer? Or are you looking for a laptop? Many laptops now rival desktops, but do come with a higher price. FPS on a laptop equals serious money!

That being said, you might consider a botique computer, versus a Dell or HP. In many cases, you can get a local built computer for much less than a mass merchant system. As RNT suggested, some of the more "mass built" systems use a special MotherBoard that limits upgrades in the future.

Or they "cheat" and use an underpowered video card, (that steals power from the CPU). They may also use an integrated sound (on the motherboard) also stealing power from the CPU.

Dual and Quad core are the way to go, but be prepared for higher cost. Again, this may or may NOT be a concern, but you havn't told us what you want to spend.

Here are some base line recs for you. It'll be a "Mid-Range" and a "Entry-Level" system.

These would need to be assembled by a local computer expert, although if you really wanted to do it yourself, its not really all that hard. (seriously, and its kinda fun in a Frankenstein way!). If you take this list into a computer shop they should be able to get the parts from Newegg,com or similar places.

MID RANGE
Case- 500W ATX (W is for Watts, DONT GET LESS THAN 500W NO MATTER THE SYSTEM) $60

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 $274

Motherboard Asus PSN-E SLI (Asus is cherry, I would not go less than it. Very easy to use and lots of room. Compatible with all chasis.) $115

Memory
Corsair 2GB DDR2-800 (Dont get less than 2GB, and the spec and speed are good. All memory is NOT the same) $163

Optical Drive
Plextor PX-760A (I've used Plextor before, quiet and reliable) $36

Hard Drive
WD 250 GB 7,200RPM (you can get 10,000 RPM, but you pay out the ass for it. Not applicable for you unless you need the extra speed for your LAN parties) $60

Soundcard
Creative Labs X-Fi Xtreme Music $47 (Creative is king here. Dont go less)

VideoCard
GeForce 8800GTX 768MB $459 (DONT SKIMP. I realize this is an eye opener...more than the actual CPU, but its sole job is to make your FPS the best possible experience. Also used in any graphics application, from photo editing, video editing, or the actual windows vista operating system. If you have the cash, get upgrade to the GeForce 8800 ULTRA 768MB and link them. Cost of that option is $1,202. Seriously overkill unless you want some serious drooling from nerds at your LAN Party)

If that card is way to much, step down to the GeForce 8600 GT for $105. Ask your assembler to overclock it a bit, and you will get decent performance for the money. This is the real/main difference between the Mid and the Entry level.

The CPU on the Entry Level also uses a AMD Athlon 64 4200+ for a cost of $70.

Let me know what you think. If you don't understand anything let me know. I'll help ya!

Your on your own for a monitor. For starters, just keep what you have. Unless its dying, it should work just fine. It'll save you some money.

One final note. The boutique MAY suggest you get your operating system as a "OEM" product. If I were YOU, decline. You would be best to purchase from BB at regular price. The reason for this, OEM=ZERO support from MS. So if you have a problem with Vista/XP, and you bought the "OEM" version to save money, you will be Sh*t out of luck. Get the retail version, and you are assured of support from MS!

[topspeed]

Thanks guys!

My budget is around $1,500, including a new monitor. I'd love to stay below $1K, but I'll pay more for the right performance. I'm passing the old computer on to the kids, so the NEC monitor will have to go with it.

The kit Beefy suggested runs around $1,200 w/o a monitor. That's doable. How does it compare to these?

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/I..._Configurator/

or

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/G...nity_8800_Pro/

[Groundbeef]

Thanks guys!

My budget is around $1,500, including a new monitor. I'd love to stay below $1K, but I'll pay more for the right performance. I'm passing the old computer on to the kids, so the NEC monitor will have to go with it.

The kit Beefy suggested runs around $1,200 w/o a monitor. That's doable. How does it compare to these?

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/I..._Configurator/

or

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/G...nity_8800_Pro/

Let me check my PC Gamer mag, and see if I can find any CyberPower reviews. Also, you may do a google search for them using "CyberPowerPC reviews". See what others have to say about them.

The components look ok, but the power is a bit low. 420 watts is kinda tight, and for future upgrades, it may not be enough. You can always tear it out later and upgrade, but why bother. Do it the first time for the power.

Also, the video card is a decent one. They specify "major brand", but not all cards are the same. They use the NVidia architecture, but assemble it differently. MSI is a decent discount brand, not sure about others.

I would also call a couple boutiques in your area and ask about assembly rates, and bench fees. Assembly should take about 2 hours. Also, enquire as to whether they charge for the time to install the OS. I would install that part myself if they do. No sense paying a guy to sit in front of the monitor for an hour!

[topspeed]

Thanks, Beef.

The website for cyberpower has tons of links to reviews. Everything from PC World to CNet to PC Gamer. I'm wary of internet companies, but this one seems to have quite a few favorable reviews and they come with a 3 year warranty.

I'm in a bit of technological basin, as it were. It's the middle of farmland and I'm not sure if we even have a "boutique." I'll check into it tho, thanks.

[Groundbeef]

Thanks, Beef.

The website for cyberpower has tons of links to reviews. Everything from PC World to CNet to PC Gamer. I'm wary of internet companies, but this one seems to have quite a few favorable reviews and they come with a 3 year warranty.

I'm in a bit of technological basin, as it were. It's the middle of farmland and I'm not sure if we even have a "boutique." I'll check into it tho, thanks.

Where ya at? I'm in Springfield IL, not the mecca of computer power! I use the term boutique loosely as well. Just call a couple computer stores in town. The smaller the better. The more anti-social, nerds in the joint the better!

[Rich-n-Texas]

...The more anti-social, nerds in the joint the better!

Truer words were never spoken!

[topspeed]

The more anti-social, nerds in the joint the better!

LOL! You're probably right! I'm in the middle of Cali in the San Joaquin Valley, home to cows and cotton.

[Woochifer]

Speedy -

That Dell system looks pretty well spec'd out. If you want to go with FPS games, then you'll want to avoid integrated graphics where the video functions are shared with the processor and system memory rather than contained on a separate video card (the XPS 420 only includes separate video card options, so you're safe here). For just web surfing, basic photo editing, and word processing, the XPS systems probably are overkill, but 3D gaming is one of the more demanding uses for a computer.

Generally, Dell's desktop systems are a safe bet (my company has been using mostly Dells for the better part of 10 years), though they've been cutting more corners in recent years than before. They won't give you bleeding edge performance, and they're not amenable to overclocking and other high performance tweaks (in your car parlance, think of Dell as a factory stock vehicle, and an overclocked computer as a car that has had aftermarket performance tuning). But, given that you're not looking to spend a lot of time under the hood with your computer, you might be better off with a more standardized configuration.

A local system integrator can usually piece together something more customized to your needs, but nowadays you won't save a lot of money by going with a shop built machine. If you have a reputable shop in town that can build up a decent system, the after sales support can be a lot more tolerable than Dell or HP et al routing your customer support call to some overseas call center. Then again, a local shop might also go out of business in short order, leaving you on your own when something goes wrong (which is exactly what happened with a fleet of my former company's PCs).

As far as that Dell configuration goes, I would check off the following options:

- at least 3 GB of memory if you plan on going with Windows Vista (if you order a Dell through their small business division [any consumer can order through them], they'll give you the option of using Windows XP, which you might want if you have an older printer or want to continue using some older applications that don't work with Vista)
- go with at least the 256 MB Nvidia video card (higher performance for gaming and video editing than the ATI Radeon options)
- go with one of the "DataSafe" hard drive configurations (this option is otherwise known as a RAID 1 configuration, in which you have a pair of hard drives mirroring one another -- if one drive fails, you have a backup)
- get the wired or wireless network card if you have a broadband connection

You might also want to check this PC World article on electronics reliability and customer support before going with CyberPower.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139958/article.html

I would also put in a plug for the Macs, since I use one at home. At least try them out, though they definitely have their share of some teething pains involved if you're switching over from Windows. Also, keep in mind that gaming on a Mac will likely require that you install a separate copy of Windows, which bumps up the cost. But, it is a nice option in that the Macs now allow you to work with Windows applications from within Mac OS X (using either Parallels or VMWare's virtualization programs), or as a separate startup option (letting you choose which operating system to use at startup) using Apple's bundled BootCamp application. BootCamp basically allows you to set aside a portion of your hard drive for Windows, and the Macs can run Windows just as well as a typical PC (those new "Buy a Mac" ads are trumpeting the fact that the MacBook Pro runs Windows Vista faster than any of the other PC notebooks that they've tested this year).

[kexodusc]

I'll second a Mac, I've been using Macbooks for a few years now - sure, you could run windows in them, but more importantly, you can run Linux.
Big cool factor everytime you crack one of them open at an airport lounge. You wanna be cool don't ya?

[basite]

this would be an interesting thread, since I'm looking to upgrade my pc too soon...

I still know more about pc's than the average pc user, but I've kinda lost track of what's 'hot' since the audiophilia came up

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I have the perfect video card for ya Bert!

[basite]

I have the perfect video card for ya Bert!

which is?

do mind I'd like the pc to be 'media center'-ish, since I'm planning to get a projector or so in the future...

and gaming is still important too

[Rich-n-Texas]

Look at my first post above to see my rig's specs. "Media-center-ish" is going to be very expensive. I was considering that route because I wanted to play games on my HDTV but when I saw the prices just for media center cases, I changed my mind. My TV is able to receive DVI in and my graphics card has DVI out and good control s/w so when things settle with my room layout and new receiver purchase I'm going to bring the PC out of the computer room and have a go with the TV.

Actually that would be my second post.

[basite]

well at the moment my pc consists of:

2x 512mb DDR ram,
AMD athlon 64 3500+
Asus A8V mobo
Sapphire ATI radeon x1600pro (slightly overclocked by sapphire) w/ 512mb DDR2 ram
Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS soundcard driving:
Cambridge soundworks Megaworks THX 550 or something like that,
LG L1980Q monitor
2 sata HDD's, by maxtor
Liteon CD/DVD player/writer
LG cd/dvd reader
and probably some more of which I forgot the name...

Running Win XP pro, service pack 2, with fancy skin

No real performance complaints so far, works good for the games I'm playing, albeit not on the highest quality...
what does bother me is that my graphics card is still AGP, and my mobo doesn't support PCI-E, so I can't really upgrade that anymore...

So I'll be looking for a new mobo, new CPU, new graphics card, new RAM memory,and probably a new PSU too...

all this to be good for another few months

nah, but the media center thing isn't exactly like a media center, it's more like a pc capable of doing all the modern HT stuff, so I want HDMI, fast things, no ghosting while watching movies (I've had some problems with deinterlacing before) all that stuff...

I'll probably wait again, till summer or so, new things come way to fast in pc world, so maybe it will become cheaper too then

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah, AGP is going the way of the dinosaur quickly now which forces you to upgrade the motherboard. Forgot about that.

Incedently, I use and am subscribed to Steam to play HL-2, and you can install a game server utility so more than one machine on a network can play games. I had this server installed on one of my older machines and was able to play CS; one computer against the other. The only problem was I had to keep running back-n-forth between the one in the living room and the one in the computer room in order to kill the enemy. Could never figure out though why my soldiers were always dead by the time I got back to the computer room!

[topspeed]

Thanks for the article Wooch. It was enough to make me seriously reconsider cyberpower.

Kex, I don't even know what Linux is! That's how much I care if people think I'm cool.




So, I've narrowed down a couple of systems:

Dell XPS 420: $1189
3Gig memory
Intel Quad Core Q6600, 2.4Ghz
ATI 256MB HD vid card
320GB HD
16x DVD/CD burner
Dell 19" LCD Widescreen HD (1440x900) monitor

or

Dell XPS 420: $1340
Same stats as above except NVidia Geforce 512mb 8800GT
yes, that damn card is an additional $250!!!

or

HP Pavillion Ultimate: $600
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz
2gb memory
400 GB HD
DVD dual layer burner w/ Lightscribe (whatever that is)
Flash card reader
NVidia GeForce 8400GS 256mb w/ HDMI & DVI
No monitor

All come bundled w/ Vista Home Premium and the Dell's also include Adobe Elements studio and MS Works 8 (although I've never used either)

Sorry Beefy, I can't pull the trigger on that monster vid card. I know, I know, shoot me.