McCain on why he chose Sarah Palin

[Auricauricle]

Okay...She drinks, she dribbles....Does she dribble when she drinks....?

[Auricauricle]

I hear there's an illegitimate son somewhere....

[GMichael]

And a crazy .........

[Auricauricle]

I don't think that anyone expects politicians to be beyond reproach or have unassailable pasts, but I do think that we can expect a history of good judgment and honor.

Unfortunately, when the target is teflon-coated or the vulnerabilities aren't very damaging, folks may look for cheap shots below the knees, looking for peripheral targets.

Call it collateral damage.

This latest salvo regarding the daughter is repugnant, but if it sways enough people to be led off target, then like any smelly red herring, it might lead them to the desired path.

Let's see how indignantly Obama responds to this.

[bobsticks]

Let's see how indignantly Obama responds to this.

Glass houses methinks

[Feanor]

...

This latest salvo regarding the daughter is repugnant, but if it sways enough people to be led off target, then like any smelly red herring, it might lead them to the desired path.

...

The Republican Party is all about red herrings. How otherwise would a party ever win office whose real agenda is to foster the ultra rich and huge corporations? Read What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank.

The matters of abortion, gay marriage, premarital sex, etc., "family values", "free enterprise", American (as opposed human) values are all promoted solely to cloak the the true intention of the Republican agenda-setters. These issue are periferal and ultimately of minor importance. Bill Clinton said (as alleged), "It's the Economy, stupid!". So true, and Obama would be well advised to stick to that insight.

Sarah Palin inexperienced? That, coupled with the naive values she's supposed to hold, will make her so much the easier for the real Republican agenda-setters to control.

[Rich-n-Texas]

The Republican Party is all about red herrings. How otherwise would a party ever win office whose real agenda is to foster the ultra rich and huge corporations? Read What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank.

The matters of abortion, gay marriage, premarital sex, etc., "family values", "free enterprise", American (as opposed human) values are all promoted solely to cloak the the true intention of the Republican agenda-setters. These issue are periferal and ultimately of minor importance. Bill Cliton said (as alleged), "It's the Economy, stupid!". So true, and Obama would be well advised to stick to that insight.

Sarah Palin inexperienced? That, coupled with the naive values she's supposed to hold, will make her so much the easier for the real Republican agenda-setters to control.

You sound like an angry Democrat. Oh wait, you don't live in the US. My bad.

[Feanor]

You sound like an angry Democrat. Oh wait, you don't live in the US. My bad.

I'm an impartial foreign observer whose only interest is an objective understanding of the situation in the U.S.

And if I say I'm objective, its true. How is it not? I don't pay US tax; my son won't be sent to Iraq. I'll be retire in a bit over a year, so I wouldn't care if my job was shipped to China or India even if I did live down there.

But the fact is that the large majority of Americans are being screwed over by the Repulican power brokers and most of them are too stupid to realized it. Incidentally, the situation here in Canada isn't much better: right-wing forces are managing to dupe Canadian voters in a very similar manner.

[Auricauricle]

Yeah....something tells me that the lady may protest too much....

[Ajani]

I think there are enough legitimate questions to be asked about Sarah Palin as a VP choice, that no-one should need to resort to attacking her about her teenage daughter's pregnancy...

The MAIN problem with choosing her, is that it significantly weakens/destroys McCain's arguement about the need for experience. No matter how often people claim that "oh, she's not running for president", the fact remains that if McCain drops dead or becomes incapacitated at any time during his presidency, she will become the President... And given his age and cancer history, that is a real possibility... I really think that McCain should have gone for a more experienced Republican VP pick, so that he could continue to attack Obama on that issue...

Also, while the Obama camp has made the point that the issue of judgement is more important than experience (since you can always surround yourself with experienced advisors and VPs - Biden for example)... Palin is put at a major disadvantage by being introduced into the game so late... Obama has had 1.5 years to campaign and show his judgement on the national/international stage... Palin will have just 2 months... so basically, no time to prove to the public that she has great judgement and is not just being used as a cheap ploy to generate shock value and maybe steal a few female voters from Obama/Biden.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You sound like an angry Democrat too Hifi.

[thekid]

Well I agree with Aj and Feanor on some of this.

The GOP has at its base groups led by people like James Dobson, Gary Bauer etc who have excoriated Democrats for supporting programs such as sex education and a science based curriculum. ( Flame thread alert- Is it the science that produces the sound from speakers or is it created..... ) They believe Democrats are godless and amoral and that the GOP had a monopoly relegion and morality. The problem as has been pointed is that the candidates they support rarely walk the walk. Divorces, corruption, teen pregnancy and yes even homosexuality are just as much a part of people who make up the GOP as it is the Democrats but when the Democrats start to mention the hypocrisy of the situation WWIII erupts. To my friends on the right if the shoe was on the other foot and the Democratic candidate had a similar situation, Do you think that Dobson,Hannity and Rush would be sitting on the sidelines applauding an un-wed mothers parents??? They have raised money and got ratings for years talking about the moral decay of America

You do however have to applaud Palin for at least sticking to her principals on being pro-life. My issues with her have more to do with her apparent hypocrisy on economic issues. Does anyone here think it is normal for a town of 9,000 to hire a lobbyist (a former Chief of Staff to Ted Stevens- who will all know brings home the bacon) to represent their interests in D.C? That small burg has recieved more than 26 million in Federal funds in the last couple of years which seems highly disproportionate to its size. To me it is another example of a party that talks about small government and wasteful spending but when they get the keys to the treasure house manage to plunder just as well as the pirates they claim to be protecting us from in the first place.

On a somewhat related topic as I watch the party reps and spin doctors earn their paychecks I was hoping someone can answer a few questions;

When the GOP says we are "winning" the war in Iraq could someone please provide me the answers;

Who are we fighting and where will the Peace Treaty be signed once victory has been declared? (My left friends please-Insert "Mission Accomplished joke of your choice here) Also please note the USS Missouri is I believe unavailable at this point.

Once we have "won" in Iraq please explain how this affects the real "War on Terrorism" given that 11 of the 15 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, the 9/11 attacks were planned by an Egyptian and the training and final authorization for the 9/11 attacks came from a Saudi based in Afghanistan?

I say these things because I am tired of hearing about "victory" or listening to people who are labeling others as defeatists or "cut and runners". The "War on Terrorism" is real and it is as we have seen deadly serious. It is as much an idealogical struggle as a military one and it will not end with a treaty or climatic battle. It will have been "won" when bombs stop going off in crowded markets and people can live their lives in complete freedom without the fear of their neighbor or their government spying on them, imprisoning them or killing them based on their beliefs or ethnic background.

The two parties should not be reducing the war to slogans and 30-second sound bites because at the end of the day there are real men and women putting their lives on the line every day and IMO it cheapens their service when we treat them like a ball in some sort of twisted playground game.

Ahhh now I feel better.............

[Auricauricle]

A rather quick reply:

You ask, "Who are we fighting and where will the Peace Treaty be signed once victory has been declared? (My left friends please-Insert "Mission Accomplished joke of your choice here) Also please note the USS Missouri is I believe unavailable at this point".

If we can agree that a war is an act of aggression by one nation to use force as a means to gain assets or influence over another nation, the United States has been at war in one tie or another throughout its comparatively short existence. The war in progress is one that has been fought, in some fashion or other for much longer than the bombing of the World Trade Center…perhaps going back as far as the Crusades, if not further. Perhaps it is a sticky point, but if wars are fueled by ideology, the foment of antipathy towards the west by the east and the east towards the west has only been made more comprehensible by the discovery of that black, slimy liquid that has enticed, bedazzled and made fools of us all. In brokering for our share of the resource, we have made deals with devils and have turned a blind eye to transgressions committed in the name of Allah and Jesus, never once taking account of the countless suffering that our rapacious appetite has caused. We have erected puppet regimes to support our stake in the region, by supporting governments and cabals whose agendas never once entered the minds of the American citizenry, who as long as they got that resource and were suckered by the low price of that commodity were blind to the real price that was being paid in terms of human rights and dignity.

This war will never be over in the sense that when it is “all said and done”. The venom that embedded itself into the tissues of our minds and the fabrics of our societies has become systemic. We may divest ourselves of our co-dependent relationship with these countries and loosen our beholden grip to some of the others, but the United States exists to place itself front and center of the world’s stage. Until we step aside and work in the true spirit of democracy and as an peripheral, but integral part of the machinery that propels this planet, we will continue to agitate and irritate our neighbors.

There will be no USS Missouri. It’ll be a rubber stamp, a photo-op and a file.

"Once we have 'won' in Iraq please explain how this affects the real 'War on Terrorism' given that 11 of the 15 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, the 9/11 attacks were planned by an Egyptian and the training and final authorization for the 9/11 attacks came from a Saudi based in Afghanistan?"

The "War on Terrorism" is a farce. "Terrorism" is as much a valid form of warfare as dropping atomic bombs or firebombs on cities of women, children and helpless people have no hope of escaping their terrible blast. Terrorism is not a mad-hatter’s scheme devised by raving lunatics with furtive eyes and a hunch back, but by legitimate governments and their allies who know their targets’ soft-as-genitals vulnerabilities—whether actually resource oriented or symbolic—and are willing to ratchet things up a few notches. Many of the followers of these people are rabid: they are propelled by ideology and unshakable faith and, armed by cross, sickle, menorah or numb-chuck are capable of fighting until the last man is standing. Iraq is not an isolated country, and for countries in the region, the “war” in Iraq is not only affront that offends that poor nation, by many more who would like very much to see the land of Mesopotamia and the Garden of Eden left alone. These alliances are deeply entrenched and the blood that runs through all of them is old, smart and envisions scenes that we can only hope to discern.

"I say these things because I am tired of hearing about "victory" or listening to people who are labeling others as defeatists or "cut and runners". The "War on Terrorism' is real and it is as we have seen deadly serious. It is as much an idealogical struggle as a military one and it will not end with a treaty or climatic battle. It will have been "won" when bombs stop going off in crowded markets and people can live their lives in complete freedom without the fear of their neighbor or their government spying on them, imprisoning them or killing them based on their beliefs or ethnic background".

You bet.

"The two parties should not be reducing the war to slogans and 30-second sound bites because at the end of the day there are real men and women putting their lives on the line every day and IMO it cheapens their service when we treat them like a ball in some sort of twisted playground game".

There is an assumption that folks are incapable of processing more than only an infinitesimal amount of data in their poor heads at a time. Shame on us for not encouraging each other and our children to think, if that be the case. The game of politics in America is a well-choreographed spectacle. Behind the curtains of red, white and blue, beyond the veils of balloons and fireworks, the men and women of government are extraordinary ordinary people whose agendas and schemes are not focused on citizens but an overarching vision of what America is and where she will be 50 years from now. “Politics as usual”: the great scandal mongering, the backbiting and bad behavior is all smoke screen and residue, with human lives as fodder for causes that are determined by men and women of enormous influence and prestige.

As long as we prop up our lawmakers with holier than thou shibboleths and starry-eyed expectations, they will fail us. They need to be held accountable for their actions as we are to ours. This includes sending white-collar criminals and errant politicos to blue-collar prisons and making sure that their children do battle in the wars of their design.

We need to be more proactive as citizens, and hold them accountable in word and deed. This means encouraging dialogs such as this one not only with on-line acquaintances, but also with the man drinking his beer next to you. This is the true art of conversation: open discourse, readily and fearlessly and enthusiastically rendered.

And now, lads, let us take our pikes and storm Washington! There are heads to be gathered and fair maidens to ravish!

[3-LockBox]

Geez, all this political reparte' and not one word about her looks...what has this board become?

Someone went on the tangent about unwed mothers in highschool, and it reminds me of something I hear all the time, about how much smarter the last couple of generations are than I was at the same age. Is it true? Well, I could figure out the cost/benefit analysis of a rubber, and the generations that followed chase parked cars.

[thekid]

Geez, all this political reparte' and not one word about her looks...what has this board become?

Someone went on the tangent about unwed mothers in highschool, and it reminds me of something I hear all the time, about how much smarter the last couple of generations are than I was at the same age. Is it true? Well, I could figure out the cost/benefit analysis of a rubber, and the generations that followed chase parked cars.

Well I will say she has that Tina Fey look down to the tee!
I think we know where NBC will go when they need a stunt double for the moose scene when "30 Rock-The Movie" begins production.

[Hyfi]

Geez, all this political reparte' and not one word about her looks...what has this board become?

Someone went on the tangent about unwed mothers in highschool, and it reminds me of something I hear all the time, about how much smarter the last couple of generations are than I was at the same age. Is it true? Well, I could figure out the cost/benefit analysis of a rubber, and the generations that followed chase parked cars.

Except for the whole Librarian thing she has going on, she is not as hard on the eyes as Hilary. Heck of a bod for 5 children.

Anyway, to get back on track here....I forgot she was going to be on last night so when I got off the PC and turned on the tube, I thought I was watching Leno or something. There was this female comedian doing one liners after another of unjustified tongue in cheek CHEAP SHOTS. I know she didn't write it so some speech writer made her look like a complete ass to me. As usual, most of the Democratic speeches stayed close to on-topic about what they had planned for us while the Republicans spend the majority of their opportunity to get their message out bashing the other guy with half truths.

I'm not so sure that the last generations were any smarter. They were a bit more respectful of life and scared due to religious brainwashing. Hey maybe that brainwashing isn't all that bad? Ummm, there also were a whole lot more two parent families. And I by no means claim that there are no good single parents, I know there are many.

[Feanor]

...

Anyway, to get back on track here....I forgot she was going to be on last night so when I got off the PC and turned on the tube, I thought I was watching Leno or something. There was this female comedian doing one liners after another of unjustified tongue in cheek CHEAP SHOTS. I know she didn't write it so some speech writer made her look like a complete ass to me. As usual, most of the Democratic speeches stayed close to on-topic about what they had planned for us while the Republicans spend the majority of their opportunity to get their message out bashing the other guy with half truths.
...

It's too bad that politicians personal lives are such a big consideration in U.S. politics. It's much less of a issue in other parts of the world. In France, I'm told, it wouldn't be a big deal if the president has a mistress, or whether his daughter is pregnant out of wedlock. If Clinton is criticized for lying about a blowjob under his desk, let's remember that he lied because he thought the public would make a big deal out of it. Elsewhere nobody would care: no one would be bothered to look for such a failing and if one were discovered, the president would have to lie about it.

Sarah Palin will be sold to the American public like bath soap or breakfast cereal. Her "values" will be sold as a surrogate for the things that really matter. Even if she is true to these values and not a hypocrite, they are irrelevant to the core problems the country faces.

A recent magazine article -- sorry, can remeber which one, might have been Discovery, or even Mcleans a Canadian pub -- the biggest factor Democrat voters looked for in a potential President is judgement, while for Republican voters it's character. IMO, judgement is more important than character, and the latter is certainly no substitute for the former.

What's worse in a sense is what exactly Americans (at least, Republicans) define as character. It seems that character largely means adherence mainly to Old Testament proscriptions or modern interpretations of them. What of Christ's injunction to love peace, the poor, and sinners? Nada. As I've said before, "Christian Right" is an oxymoron. These people are not right (in the sense of just), and not Christian either but rather modern-day Pharisees.

[Rich-n-Texas]

If Clinton is criticized for lying about a blowjob under his desk, let's remember that he lied because he thought the public would make a big deal out of it...

Or maybe because he thought he'd be impeached?

Ya know what Feanor? Because I think you're just here to antagonize, I'm going to continue in my belief that you're not an idiot. Sound good?

[Ajani]

Or maybe because he thought he'd be impeached?

Hmmm... I think Impeachment could be viewed as the public making a big deal of it... lol

Ya know what Feanor? Because I think you're just here to antagonize, I'm going to continue in my belief that you're not an idiot. Sound good?

Actually, I strongly suspect that Feanor believes what he says... and to some extent I agree with him...


Anyway, I find the differences between Democrats and Republicans really strange:

Republicans - Favour financial freedom aka small government and fiscal prudence (though Bush/Cheney seem to have ignored that whole fiscal prudence bit for the last 8 years!!!)... For the most part I agree with the Republicans on this issue...

Democrats - Favour personal freedom i.e. Pro-Choice, Gay Rights, etc... etc.. I tend to agree with the Dems on this one...

What I find weird is that I would expect one party to be about freedom and the other about Gov control, not this mixed approach where one is for personal but not financial freedom and the other is for financial but not personal freedom...

[O'Shag]

It's too bad that politicians personal lives are such a big consideration in U.S. politics. It's much less of a issue in other parts of the world. In France, I'm told, it wouldn't be a big deal if the president has a mistress, or whether his daughter is pregnant out of wedlock. If Clinton is criticized for lying about a blowjob under his desk,

Its not so much about getting a blowjob under your desk as where and who. If one is the leader of a country and your having this blowjob in the Oval office of the united states, well Its like the Archibishop of Canterbury getting a blowjob behind the Altar at Westminster Abbey.

The Oval office is the heart of the Whitehouse, and Bill Clinton mocked the his office in doing this. Moral leadership? ha, my foot,

I like Barrack Obama, but do feel that he lacks the experience as compared to McCain, which he has wisely addressed in his appointment of Senator Biden. I have been leainig towards McCain, until his ridiculous choice for running mate. His choice of VP, which, given his health and age could very well mean the next President of the most powerful and influential country in a very unstable volatile world, is proposterous. As far as a woman in this office, there are any number of women who could do a MUCH better job than Sarah Palin.

That decision by John McCain has made my mind up to vote for Obama and Biden

[Feanor]

...

I like Barrack Obama, but do feel that he lacks the experience as compared to McCain, which he has wisely addressed in his appointment of Senator Biden. I have been leainig towards McCain, until his ridiculous choice for running mate. His choice of VP, which, given his health and age could very well mean the next President of the most powerful and influential country in a very unstable volatile world, is proposterous. As far as a woman in this office, there are any number of women who could do a MUCH better job than Sarah Palin.

That decision by John McCain has made my mind up to vote for Obama and Biden

... at least, about the ridiculousness of the choice of Sarah Palin for VP. To me it seems like an insult to the intelligence of Americn voters.

[Hyfi]

Its not so much about getting a blowjob under your desk as where and who. If one is the leader of a country and your having this blowjob in the Oval office of the united states, well Its like the Archibishop of Canterbury getting a blowjob behind the Altar at Westminster Abbey.

Doesn't he already get them from the Alter boys behind the alter?

I'm actually going to Canterbury in three weeks.

[3-LockBox]

If Clinton is criticized for lying about a blowjob under his desk, let's remember that he lied because he thought the public would make a big deal out of it.

uuuhhhhh.....

[sarcasm]gee, I guess I never looked at it that way[/sarcasm]

[Auricauricle]

YER GETTIN' OFF FOCUS! Can we storm the ramparts now....?

[Auricauricle]

GM: I agree with you on the point made that Reps and Dems are equally culpable. Way I see it, the schisms between the parties are arbitrary. Washington is a large cabal--mebbe a caldron--of very influential people serving themselves...if the citizens get a crumb, well lucky them. Mebbe we ought to just get ride of the whole mess and just elect people by who they are and what they do than by the party they represent....

They're...bastages...ever last stinkin' one of 'em....!