Kenneth Lay - going down?

[piece-it pete]

I hope so, but at least they're trying, as most of us know.

There was a lot of crooks running big business a few years ago, but somehow I feel Lay is the poster boy.

Pete

[JSE]

I'm somewhat torn on this one. On one hand I see him as the top dog in the whole lot of crooks and he should be hanged and stoned.

However, on the other hand, I know a lot of ex-Enron people who lost everything when the crapolla hit the fan and many of them are still supportive on Lay. They feel he really did not know what was going on and had always felt he was more of a figure head leader. At first I thought this was a bunch of BS but I hear these people saying this all the time. I am starting to wonder if there is some truth to it. I think his trial will be the most interesting of the bunch because there is that element of whether he knew what was going on.

Now, if he did know what was happening and took part in it, they should skewer him with hot fire pokers. I have no sympathy for these people. My neighbor lost about $80k and will never get it back. Sure he got a few checks here and there after the fall but they were a small fraction of the $80k and the fact that he lost his job. These employees had no clue what was coming. They went in to work and were later told they had 30 minutes to leave the building for good. They had heard rumors of problems but never thought they would can so many people that fast. It's funny, my neighbor said he had called in on a automated system to check his savings plan performance a couple of days before being fired and it was out of service. Employees were told it was a computr problem and would be fixed shortly. They had no idea there was no money there.

I think in the end Lay will be convicted even if he really did not know anything. How can he not? He was to top dog and the feds are going to get him. One thing is for sure, when he does go down, I probably won't lose any sleep over it.


JSE

[okiemax]

I hope so, but at least they're trying, as most of us know.

There was a lot of crooks running big business a few years ago, but somehow I feel Lay is the poster boy.

Pete

Maybe Bush will pardon Lay. I thought the following piece about pardons was funny:

http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=465

Lay was supposed to be a key player in Cheney's energy task force. Too bad the Supreme Court refused to order the task force's records made public. We may eventually see the records, but not untill after the November elections.

[piece-it pete]

JSE,

I think since he was in charge he's responsible, anyway, you know? I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, either!!

okie,

That is funny!

Forget about the records, it ain't gonna happen. Key players from both parties are up to their neck in this, though I doubt they thought Enron was going belly up, or they would have stayed away.

Enron had a very complicated program that could show the financial results of small changes to arcane, obscure laws, they called it the matrix, all they'd have to do is trace the changes actually made to the laws back to the sponsor in Congress. Never heard of it? It has been buried so deep we never will again. It was a bipartisan racket.

Pete

[Woochifer]

Salon had a pretty interesting article about Lay's indictment, calling it a perfect Machiavellian maneuver because it gives voters the impression that the Bush Administration is doing something about white collar crime and fighting corporate corruption by sending one of Dubya's boys out to pasture. The article also pointed out that Lay could also pull a maneuver of his own by pretty much telling all (for starters, he has the means to spill the beans about Cheney's energy task force meetings). Just depends on how he would react to getting strung up as the sacrificial poster child for corporate crime. It will be interesting to see if a plea bargain gets struck AFTER the election.

[piece-it pete]

Salon had a pretty interesting article about Lay's indictment, calling it a perfect Machiavellian maneuver because it gives voters the impression that the Bush Administration is doing something about white collar crime and fighting corporate corruption by sending one of Dubya's boys out to pasture. The article also pointed out that Lay could also pull a maneuver of his own by pretty much telling all (for starters, he has the means to spill the beans about Cheney's energy task force meetings). Just depends on how he would react to getting strung up as the sacrificial poster child for corporate crime. It will be interesting to see if a plea bargain gets struck AFTER the election.

Wooch,

I wouldn't go trying to make this a Bush thing, not only was Lay tight with Clinton the excesses being prosecuted happened during his watch.

If a plea bargain leads to a conviction I'm for it. I personally am not holding my breath.

I don't doubt that all kinds of crap are going on behind the scenes, though, these guys all know each other. So far 46? executives have been charged RE: the lieing mess, not just Enron, but somehow Lay is different, in my mind he's the poster boy. Where's the poker?

Pete

[Woochifer]

Wooch,

I wouldn't go trying to make this a Bush thing, not only was Lay tight with Clinton the excesses being prosecuted happened during his watch.

If a plea bargain leads to a conviction I'm for it. I personally am not holding my breath.

I don't doubt that all kinds of crap are going on behind the scenes, though, these guys all know each other. So far 46? executives have been charged RE: the lieing mess, not just Enron, but somehow Lay is different, in my mind he's the poster boy. Where's the poker?

Pete

In an election year, hardly anything is about reality. It's all about perception, and the intersection between reality and perception starts where Dubya's the one who referred to Lay as "Kenny Boy" and Lay was once co-chairman of the elder Bush's reelection campaign. That kind of stuff sticks, and the perceptions that arise out of those connections can be poisonous in an election year. So, of course Lay is going to get hammered right now. But, given that the timing of the arrest assures that he won't stand trial until well after the election, it's easy to throw the book at him right now to burnish the administration's white collar arrest credentials and handle him with kid gloves after the votes have been cast.

[trollgirl]

five5

[piece-it pete]

In an election year, hardly anything is about reality. It's all about perception, and the intersection between reality and perception starts where Dubya's the one who referred to Lay as "Kenny Boy" and Lay was once co-chairman of the elder Bush's reelection campaign. That kind of stuff sticks, and the perceptions that arise out of those connections can be poisonous in an election year. So, of course Lay is going to get hammered right now. But, given that the timing of the arrest assures that he won't stand trial until well after the election, it's easy to throw the book at him right now to burnish the administration's white collar arrest credentials and handle him with kid gloves after the votes have been cast.

Agreed.

We really don't know was the evidence is, if it was cut and dry he'd've been nailed by now, that law making CEOs' sign off on the annual reports is only a couple years old.

I just hope that SOMETHING happens to him.

Pete