An interesting article about the "naturalness" of homosexuality

[ForeverAutumn]

BAH! This thread is for the birds.

[Auricauricle]

Aye...'Tis a foul thing to be sure!

[JohnMichael]

Speaking of Uganda



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ntence-gay-sex

Uganda considers death sentence for gay sex in bill before parliament• Minimum penalty is life in jail, under anti-homosexuality bill
• US evangelical activists pressed for restrictive measures

As a gay Ugandan, Frank Mugisha has endured insults from strangers, hate messages on his phone, police harassment and being outed in a tabloid as one of the country's "top homos". That may soon seem like the good old days.

Life imprisonment is the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex, under an anti-homosexuality bill currently before Uganda's parliament. If the accused person is HIV positive or a serial offender, or a "person of authority" over the other partner, or if the "victim" is under 18, a conviction will result in the death penalty.

Members of the public are obliged to report any homosexual activity to police with 24 hours or risk up to three years in jail – a scenario that human rights campaigners say will result in a witchhunt. Ugandans breaking the new law abroad will be subject to extradition requests.

"The bill is haunting us," said Mugisha, 25, chairman of Sexual Minorities Uganda, a coalition of local lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex groups that will all be banned under the law. "If this passes we will have to leave the country."

Human rights groups within and outside Uganda have condemned the proposed legislation, which is designed to strengthen colonial-era laws that already criminalise gay sex. The issue threatened to overshadow the Commonwealth heads of government meeting that ended in Trinidad and Tobago today, with the UK and Canada both expressing strong concerns. Ahead of the meeting Stephen Lewis, a former UN envoy on Aids in Africa, said the law "makes a mockery of Commonwealth principles" and has "a taste of fascism" about it.

But within Uganda deeply-rooted homophobia, aided by a US-linked evangelical campaign alleging that gay men are trying to "recruit" schoolchildren, and that homosexuality is a habit that can be "cured", has ensured widespread public support for the bill.

President Yoweri Museveni appeared to add his backing earlier this month, warning youths in Kampala that he had heard that "European homosexuals are recruiting in Africa", and saying gay relationships were against God's will.

"We used to say Mr and Mrs, but now it is Mr and Mr. What is that now?" he said. In a interview with the Guardian, James Nsaba Buturo, the minister of state for ethics and integrity, said the government was determined to pass the legislation, ideally before the end of 2009, even if meant withdrawing from international treaties and conventions such as the UN's Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and foregoing donor funding.

"We are talking about anal sex. Not even animals do that," Butoro said, adding that he was personally caring for six "former homosexuals" who had been traumatised by the experience. "We believe there are limits to human rights."

Homosexuality has always been a taboo subject in Uganda, and is considered by many to be an affront both to local culture and religion, which plays a strong role in family life. This stigma and the real threat of job loss means that no public personality has ever "come out".

Even local HIV campaigns – which have been heavily influenced by the evangelical church with a bias towards abstinence over condom use – have deliberately avoided targeting gay men for both prevention and access to treatment.

"This means many gay men here think Aids is a non-issue, which is so dangerous," said Mugisha, who together with a few colleagues, has risked arrest by agitating in recent years for a change in the HIV policy.

At the same time, some influential religious leaders have warned about the dangers of accepting liberal western attitudes towards homosexuality.

Both opponents and supporters agree that the impetus for the a more hardline law came in March during a seminar in Kampala to "expose the truth behind homosexuality and the homosexual agenda".

The main speakers were three US evangelists: Scott Lively, Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge. Lively is a noted anti-gay activist and president of Defend the Family International, a conservative Christian association, while Schmierer is an author who works with "homosexual recovery groups". Brundidge is a "sexual reorientation coach" at the International Healing Foundation.

The seminar was organised by Stephen Langa, a Ugandan electrician turned pastor who runs the Family Life Network in Kampala and has been spreading the message that gays are targeting schoolchildren for "conversion". "They give money to children to recruit schoolmates – once you have two children, the whole school is gone," he said in an interview. Asked if there had been any court case to prove this was happening, he replied: "No, that's why this law is needed."

After the conference Langa arranged for a petition signed by thousands of concerned parents to be delivered to parliament in April. Within a few months the bill had been drawn up.

[In an email to the Guardian on 30 November, Scott Lively said, "I have stated publicly that I do not support the bill as written. It is far too harsh and punitive. My purpose in addressing members of the Uganda parliament in March was to urge them to emphasise therapy, not punishment in their anti-homosexuality law." His long-standing position was, he said, that public policy should "actively discourage homosexuality but only as aggressively as necessary to prevent its public advocacy, much the way laws against marijuana are used in various states here in the US: the law is very lightly enforced, if ever, but the fact the law is on the books prevents advocates of the drug from promoting it, for example, in public schools."]

Christopher Senyonjo, a retired Anglican bishop, said the bill would push Uganda towards being a police state. "This law is being influenced by some evangelicals abroad," he said. "There's a lack of understanding about homosexuality – it's not recruitment, it's orientation."

But among religious leaders of all faiths his is a rare voice. Langa, the pastor, said the only thing lacking in the legislation was a clause for "rehabilitation" of homosexuals, whom he "loves" and wants to help. Gay rights had the potential to destroy civilisation, as the west could soon find out, he said.

"As one parent told me: 'We would rather live in grass huts with our morality than in skyscrapers among homosexuals'."

• This article was updated on 1 December 2009 to add a later comment by Scott Lively. A sub-heading - US evangelists are main activists behind measure - was amended to clarify that the evangelists were pressing for tougher laws, rather than specifically for the death penalty.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

BAH! This thread is for the birds.

Can we all just flock together?

[Worf101]

Uganda. After 100's of years of colonial rule, Idi Amin and natural disasters you'd think that poor beknighted country had suffered enough....

Apparently not.

Worf

[Auricauricle]

It's bad enough that the Uganda stew is in such a state, that meddlesome American evangelicals need to add their bit of sordidness into the pot....They should be excommunicated and denounced by their respective churches as the hypocrites and misanthropes they are. Phooey!

[ForeverAutumn]

I had no idea that was going on in Uganda. Thanks for the enlightenment John.

Such prejudice and hatred is completely incomprehensible to me. What is wrong with people?!

[JohnMichael]

Sadly in many areas hate crimes are still happening. In my town gay men have been murdered. Some kind and gentle men have been beaten and raped by haters as a punishment for being gay.

[GMichael]

Sadly in many areas hate crimes are still happening. In my town gay men have been murdered. Some kind and gentle men have been beaten and raped by haters as a punishment for being gay.

But wouldn't raping them make them gay too?

You need to move to my town. You would be welcome with open arms. (The town would like you too )

Seriously though. When will people step out of the dark ages and join the 21st century? It's bad enough that there are so many people who carry hatred around for no reason; do we need whole governments taking things to a new level?

[ForeverAutumn]

Rape is about violence, not sex. A man raping another man doesn't make him gay, it just makes him scum.

That article was disturbing for so many reasons. But this is the statement that really stuck out for me...

In a interview with the Guardian, James Nsaba Buturo, the minister of state for ethics and integrity, said the government was determined to pass the legislation, ideally before the end of 2009, even if meant withdrawing from international treaties and conventions such as the UN's Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and foregoing donor funding.

That people feel so strongly about this that they would withdraw from Human Rights treaties and go against the UN just boggles my mind to the point that I don't even know how to express how I feel. Butaro obviously has a very different definition of ethics and integrity than I do!

John, where you live scares me. Come live here. There is a huge community who would welcome you. We have a wicked parade every year. And if you meet Mr. Right, you can marry him. Plus I have a house that needs decorating. You met my husband...you can see that he's no help.

[GMichael]

Rape is about violence, not sex. A man raping another man doesn't make him gay, it just makes him scum.

That article was disturbing for so many reasons. But this is the statement that really stuck out for me...



That people feel so strongly about this that they would withdraw from Human Rights treaties and go against the UN just boggles my mind to the point that I don't even know how to express how I feel. Butaro obviously has a very different definition of ethics and integrity than I do!

John, where you live scares me. Come live here. There is a huge community who would welcome you. We have a wicked parade every year. And if you meet Mr. Right, you can marry him. Plus I have a house that needs decorating. You met my husband...you can see that he's no help.

Hey!

I invited him first Red.

[ForeverAutumn]

Hey!

I invited him first Red.

Do you have a parade?

[GMichael]

Do you have a parade?

No need. They run our town. Most seats in the villiage council are held by non-hetteros. There are many parades, parties, and festivals all year. All you have to do is rename a few and you could say "we have a few parades each year."
It's a very artsy town. I bet you'd love it too. It's fun to walk around town and check out all the art dealers. The prices are a little crazy though. One place was charging $500 for a burnt piece of plywood. It wasn't even a whole piece! It was cut on one end. And people here complain about $35k for speaker wire.

[ForeverAutumn]

And people here complain about $35k for speaker wire.

Those animals! I don't know if I could live in such a place!

Seriously, it sounds great. Hey John, the next AR get-together is in Mike's little corner of the world. What say you?

[GMichael]

Those animals! I don't know if I could live in such a place!

Seriously, it sounds great. Hey John, the next AR get-together is in Mike's little corner of the world. What say you?

I'll get the party started. Maybe I can find some kind of town schedule for all the festivals they have. I wonder which week is the festival of wood.

Wow. I found more than I was looking for. FA, check out the film on shopping in Milford. (And yes, I have met Rosie)

http://www.milfordpa.us/id3.html

[JohnMichael]

Rape is about violence, not sex. A man raping another man doesn't make him gay, it just makes him scum.

That article was disturbing for so many reasons. But this is the statement that really stuck out for me...



That people feel so strongly about this that they would withdraw from Human Rights treaties and go against the UN just boggles my mind to the point that I don't even know how to express how I feel. Butaro obviously has a very different definition of ethics and integrity than I do!

John, where you live scares me. Come live here. There is a huge community who would welcome you. We have a wicked parade every year. And if you meet Mr. Right, you can marry him. Plus I have a house that needs decorating. You met my husband...you can see that he's no help.

Can I ride in the convertible?

I wish there was a place I could move that would be free of hate and safe from assault but it happens even in San Francisco. That which does not kill you makes you stronger.

[JohnMichael]

Those animals! I don't know if I could live in such a place!

Seriously, it sounds great. Hey John, the next AR get-together is in Mike's little corner of the world. What say you?

Sounds good to me. Well except for burnt plywood art. Ya let us go meet Mike!

[GMichael]

Sounds good to me. Well except for burnt plywood art. Ya let us go meet Mike!

The burnt plywood isn't so bad, as long as you don't buy it. This one store is just full of other people's junk that they are selling at big bucks.

Did anyone check out the link I posted? It gives a nice little tour of our town in the "Shoppong in Milford" area.

[ForeverAutumn]

I took a quick look at the link and the video. It looks like a nice place. John, I'm with Mike. You should live there.

[nightflier]

I didn't know about the US ties, but I guess I'm not surprised. After seeing how citizens of Utah pretty much bankrolled prop.8 here in California, it's amazing how accepting we are of outside influences on populations that would probably decide differently without that influence. Maybe it's time for someone to tell the anti-gay evangelicals here in the US to mind their own business if it doesn't apply to their own constituencies. Geez.

[JohnMichael]

I took a quick look at the link and the video. It looks like a nice place. John, I'm with Mike. You should live there.

Yes and I could babysit.

[GMichael]

Yes and I could babysit.

Now you're talking. Day care costs us $168 a week, but she's worth it.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Can I ride in the convertible?

I wish there was a place I could move that would be free of hate and safe from assault but it happens even in San Francisco. That which does not kill you makes you stronger.

John, when it happens in San Francisco(and West Hollywood for that matter) the communities there do not take in lying down let me tell ya! The gay communities in those two cities are quite powerful and influential. Besides, we have the best parade in the country here in the Bay Area. You know this when every marching band and drum corps full of hetero's is begging to march in it. The drum corps I belong to marches in it every year, and it is really fun and interesting to me.

I think being exposed to gay men and women is the key to understanding and acceptance. As I have said, two of my closest friends are gay, and they are my boys god fathers. My boys guard these two like rabid pit bulls, and if anything is said or done to them that is negative, my boys are all over them like brown chicken meat over bones. I live in a community filled with gay men and women, and aside from the sexual preference they are no different than I am. When people understand the "they are no different from myself" concept, it really changes their collective minds.

Hey Mike, give me directions to your pad man!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Now you're talking. Day care costs us $168 a week, but she's worth it.

Man she is a cutie, ahhhhh the cute babies. I had two once, then they grew up.......

[GMichael]

When people understand the "they are no different from myself" concept, it really changes their collective minds.

That’s it in the nutshel. Once people take the time to learn a little more about “them”, then “them” turns into part of “us.” Too bad that so many people act without thinking. As Neil said in Whitch Hunt –
“Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...”

Hey Mike, give me directions to your pad man!

Go east young man. Go east.