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  1. #1
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    Epic Fail on G.W.

    Washington Post – November 11, 2008
    Excerpt: When asked about the goal of his movie “An Inconvenient Truth"--to wake people up to an approaching global, environmental crisis-Gore said “I think it’s been a failure . . . I feel, in a sense, that I’ve failed badly.”

    Skeptical UK scientist mocks Gore’s Nobel: ‘There’s no accounting for human folly’ – November 19, 2008 (By Physicist Freeman Dyson, Professor Emeritus of Physics at the Institute for Advanced Study, in Princeton, is a fellow of the American Physical Society, a member of the US National Academy of Sciences, and a fellow of the Royal Society of London.)

    Excerpt: Mr. Dyson had an argument anyway with the scores of people (like Al Gore) who weren’t present to defend their belief in the dire consequences of global warming. (“There’s no accounting for human folly,” Mr. Dyson said when asked about Mr. Gore’s Nobel Prize.)


    Global Sea Ice Growing at Fastest Pace on Record—Returns to Levels from the 1980s

    Daily Tech – November 7, 2008
    Excerpt: An abnormally cool Arctic is seeing dramatic changes to ice levels. In sharp contrast to the rapid melting seen last year, the amount of global sea ice has rebounded sharply and is now growing rapidly. The total amount of ice, which set a record low value last year, grew in October at the fastest pace since record-keeping began in 1979.

    Report: Global sea ice area: now same as in 1979! - ‘Fastest move in the 30 year history’

    Arctic Sea Ice Extent: In October 2008, Fastest Ever Growth

    The above is from www.canadafreepress.com
    Excuse me while I gloat...

    Laz

  2. #2
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    Paying attention here alarmists, doomsayers?

    Great post Laz.
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  3. #3
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Oh? you're gloating?

    Quote Originally Posted by trollgirl
    Washington Post – November 11, 2008
    Excerpt: When asked about the goal of his movie “An Inconvenient Truth"--to wake people up to an approaching global, environmental crisis-Gore said “I think it’s been a failure . . . I feel, in a sense, that I’ve failed badly.”

    Skeptical UK scientist mocks Gore’s Nobel: ‘There’s no accounting for human folly’ – November 19, 2008 (By Physicist Freeman Dyson, Professor Emeritus of Physics at the Institute for Advanced Study, in Princeton, is a fellow of the American Physical Society, a member of the US National Academy of Sciences, and a fellow of the Royal Society of London.)

    Excerpt: Mr. Dyson had an argument anyway with the scores of people (like Al Gore) who weren’t present to defend their belief in the dire consequences of global warming. (“There’s no accounting for human folly,” Mr. Dyson said when asked about Mr. Gore’s Nobel Prize.)

    Global Sea Ice Growing at Fastest Pace on Record—Returns to Levels from the 1980s

    Daily Tech – November 7, 2008
    Excerpt: An abnormally cool Arctic is seeing dramatic changes to ice levels. In sharp contrast to the rapid melting seen last year, the amount of global sea ice has rebounded sharply and is now growing rapidly. The total amount of ice, which set a record low value last year, grew in October at the fastest pace since record-keeping began in 1979.

    Report: Global sea ice area: now same as in 1979! - ‘Fastest move in the 30 year history’

    Arctic Sea Ice Extent: In October 2008, Fastest Ever Growth

    The above is from www.canadafreepress.com
    Excuse me while I gloat...

    Laz
    Laz, you're gloating, I suppose, because you're a well-know climatologist who whose scholarly work refutes gobal warming? Or are you just another head-in-the-sand science denier who prefers to believe what he wants to believe, facts be damned?

    Freeman Dyson is a well-known scientist, albeit with some eccentric views. He is not a climatologist. His view on global warming is (a) that it is happening, and (b) that human activity is a major clause. His principal qualm is that from the evidence we cannot be sure of the course or severity of the warming.

    The Canadian Free Press is an ultra-conservative rag with slightly less credibility than, say, the National Enquirer. An example of their utterly ignorant polemics on climate is this one, Just Why Didn’t the Earth Freeze in the Past?. The best information is that it has many times, and not just during the relatively recent northern hemisphere ice ages; see this Wikipedia article. (Sorry, I didn' check out Conservapedia for their thoughts on the subject: but you might be interested to do so.)

    Even allowing that rapid ice grow in '08 is actually true, this random occurance is absolutely not a refutation of, or even evidence against, global warming.
    Last edited by Feanor; 11-23-2008 at 09:52 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    You're gloating, I suppose, because you're a well-know climatologist who whose scholarly work refutes gobal warming? Or are you just another head-in-the-sand Joe who prefers to believe what he wants to believe, facts be damned?

    Freeman Dyson is a well-known scientist, albeit with some eccentric views. He is not a climatologist. His view on global warming is (a) that it is happening, and (b) that human activity is a major clause. His principal qualm is that from the evidence we cannot be sure of the course or severity of the warming.

    The Canadian Free Press is an ultra-conservative rag with slightly less credibility than, say, the National Enquirer. An example of their utterly ignorant polemics on climate is this one, Just Why Didnít the Earth Freeze in the Past?. The best information is that it has many times, and not just during the relatively recent northern hemisphere ice ages; see this Wikipedia article. (Sorry, I didn' check out Conservapedia for their thoughts on the subject: but you might be interested to do so.)

    Even allowing that rapid ice grow in '08 is actually true, this random occurance is absolutely not a refutation of, or even evidence against, global warming.
    You might want to get an idea of what Wikipedia is all about Feanor. It's not a fact book nor is it an encyclopedia. There could be many flaws in that article, possibly due to contributions by left-wing radicals.

    Maybe people don't listen to you because of your arrogance and nack for launching into insults against those with opposing POV's. Did you ever think about taking a more diplomatic approach when you have a different point of view?
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  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    You're right, Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    You might want to get an idea of what Wikipedia is all about Feanor. It's not a fact book nor is it an encyclopedia. There could be many flaws in that article, possibly due to contributions by left-wing radicals.

    Maybe people don't listen to you because of your arrogance and nack for launching into insults against those with opposing POV's. Did you ever think about taking a more diplomatic approach when you have a different point of view?
    I'll concede, I'd be better liked in some quarters if I made an effort to be more tactful and conciliatory. Then again at this late stage of life I'm unlikely to, (given I'm not running for public office).

    I'm an intolerant cuss, granted, when it comes to irrationality, ignorance, or hypocracy. Or to put it another way, I hold that some points of view are utterly without merit.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I'll concede, I'd be better liked in some quarters if I made an effort to be more tactful and conciliatory. Then again at this late stage of life I'm unlikely to, (given I'm not running for public office).

    I'm an intolerant cuss, granted, when it comes to irrationality, ignorance, or hypocracy. Or to put it another way, I hold that some points of view are utterly without merit.
    Actually, I used the word "gloat" fairly tongue-in-cheek due to prior climate debates on this very forum. I am not irrational, ignorant, nor a hypocrite. Neither am I a climatologist, but I do know a thing or two, including that temperature and rainfall both vary around a mean in regular cycles. I also understand what those cycles imply for politics, economics, and even art. Consider that, historically, the warm phases, such as the one just finished, are associated with international wars, and the cold phases, as the one now beginning, are more conducive to civil wars. America, at the same time, is tense and divided, and becoming more so all the time - on that, I will not gloat.

    Laz

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I apologize to you, Laz

    Quote Originally Posted by trollgirl
    Actually, I used the word "gloat" fairly tongue-in-cheek due to prior climate debates on this very forum. I am not irrational, ignorant, nor a hypocrite. Neither am I a climatologist, but I do know a thing or two, including that temperature and rainfall both vary around a mean in regular cycles. I also understand what those cycles imply for politics, economics, and even art. Consider that, historically, the warm phases, such as the one just finished, are associated with international wars, and the cold phases, as the one now beginning, are more conducive to civil wars. America, at the same time, is tense and divided, and becoming more so all the time - on that, I will not gloat.

    Laz
    I was a tad rude in the first paragraph of my original response. There a many uncertainties with respect to global warning. The big question is whether we can afford to sit back and hope for the best, or whether we might be proactive to stave off, or at least prepare for, the less happy scenarios.

    You are indeed right that the US is in a tense interval, one that could well become worse before it gets better. Believe me, I know if American tanks the rest of us will not be gloating for long.

  8. #8
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    I will not get into the whole GW debate except to say that if they are wrong about its existence then all we have lost IMO is money. However if they are right then the alternative is possible extinction of thousands of animal spieces possibly including our own.

    If you want to read about how cyclical changes (man-made or not) have affected civilizations throughout history I recommend everyone pick up a copy of "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. While he discusses the environment I don't think he seems to be an alarmist or extremist since he seems to look at things from a historical perspective rather than a current environmental perspective.

    GW issues aside if you want to take a look at something that will wake you up a bit..

    http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

    IMO there is a looming water shortage that has geo-political ramifications as supply and population centers begin to diverge.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekid
    I will not get into the whole GW debate except to say that if they are wrong about its existence then all we have lost IMO is money. However if they are right then the alternative is possible extinction of thousands of animal spieces possibly including our own.

    If you want to read about how cyclical changes (man-made or not) have affected civilizations throughout history I recommend everyone pick up a copy of "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. While he discusses the environment I don't think he seems to be an alarmist or extremist since he seems to look at things from a historical perspective rather than a current environmental perspective.

    GW issues aside if you want to take a look at something that will wake you up a bit..

    http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

    IMO there is a looming water shortage that has geo-political ramifications as supply and population centers begin to diverge.
    I should add on the subject of "...how cyclical changes (man-made or not) have affected civilizations throughout history..." the book A Roadmap of Time by Brad Steiger. It is hard to find, and hard to follow in places, but the core information is amazing. As for the water thing, yes, it is very scary. BTW, keep in mind that our civilization is also going to go down due to the loss of topsoil. How are we going to get out of the fix we're in? One article I saw the other day said that by 2030, the resources of TWO earths would be needed just to keep up...

    Laz

  10. #10
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    I love the attached speech by Michael Crichton. Its long, but if you have any interest in this topic, well worth the read.

    http://www.michaelcrichton.net/speec...talfuture.html

  11. #11
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by thekid
    I...

    If you want to read about how cyclical changes (man-made or not) have affected civilizations throughout history I recommend everyone pick up a copy of "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. While he discusses the environment I don't think he seems to be an alarmist or extremist since he seems to look at things from a historical perspective rather than a current environmental perspective.

    ...
    I strongly recommend Collapse too. It is a sobering, often chilling, account of how time and again a people's refusal has lead to conserve resources or adapt to changing circumstances has result in their extinction. Personally I didn't fail to notice that it was most often the wealthy leaders who were the prime culprits.

  12. #12
    Oh where have ye gone RL?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I was a tad rude in the first paragraph of my original response. There a many uncertainties with respect to global warning. The big question is whether we can afford to sit back and hope for the best, or whether we might be proactive to stave off, or at least prepare for, the less happy scenarios.

    You are indeed right that the US is in a tense interval, one that could well become worse before it gets better. Believe me, I know if American tanks the rest of us will not be gloating for long.
    I'll accept your apology if you send me a case of Sleeman's....................... PLEASE?!?!?!
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  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    We'll see

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I'll accept your apology if you send me a case of Sleeman's....................... PLEASE?!?!?!
    Email your address.

  14. #14
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    Actually Bill, the ever resourceful JSE/Cartman/grass skirt guy found a store here in the states that'll ship cases to Texas. $25 for shipping + the cost of the beer.

    On Topic: I violated one of my own rules by talking politics on the weekend, so... I'm out!
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  15. #15
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Go for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Actually Bill, the ever resourceful JSE/Cartman/grass skirt guy found a store here in the states that'll ship cases to Texas. $25 for shipping + the cost of the beer.

    ...
    Order the Sleeman; you won't regret it.

  16. #16
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    A video update as the plot thickens:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ

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