Next TV format is chosen

That would be Ultra High-Definition.

The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) Oct. 18 put a name to the next generation of home displays, putting the Ultra HD tag on TVs with more than eight million pixels of resolution, four times the resolution of today’s widely available HDTVs.

CEA’s Board of Industry Leaders unanimously approved the term and minimum requirements for a set or projector to earn the Ultra HD designation, which requires resolution of at least eight million active pixels (minimum 3,840x2,160). Displays must have an aspect ratio of at least 16x9 and must have a digital input capable of carrying native 4K video, instead of relying solely on up-converting.

Current Blu-ray Disc players do not support Ultra HD video. But for content, issues are already being addressed: According to Sony Pictures, nearly 60 films have been mastered in Ultra HD since 2004, and Sony and Luxembourg-based satellite company SAS Astra said they successfully broadcast an Ultra HD transmission in September.

So far two TVs on the market meet the Ultra HD (4K) specifications: Sony XBR-84X900 for $24,999, and LG's 84LM9600 for $20,000.

Consumer Electronics Association Gives 4K a Name | Home Media Magazine

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Originally Posted by Smokey

That would be Ultra High-Definition.

The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) Oct. 18 put a name to the next generation of home displays, putting the Ultra HD tag on TVs with more than eight million pixels of resolution, four times the resolution of today’s widely available HDTVs.

CEA’s Board of Industry Leaders unanimously approved the term and minimum requirements for a set or projector to earn the Ultra HD designation, which requires resolution of at least eight million active pixels (minimum 3,840x2,160). Displays must have an aspect ratio of at least 16x9 and must have a digital input capable of carrying native 4K video, instead of relying solely on up-converting.

Current Blu-ray Disc players do not support Ultra HD video. But for content, issues are already being addressed: According to Sony Pictures, nearly 60 films have been mastered in Ultra HD since 2004, and Sony and Luxembourg-based satellite company SAS Astra said they successfully broadcast an Ultra HD transmission in September.

So far two TVs on the market meet the Ultra HD (4K) specifications: Sony XBR-84X900 for $24,999, and LG's 84LM9600 for $20,000.

Consumer Electronics Association Gives 4K a Name | Home Media Magazine

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Now if they could only do something about my ageing eyes.

Seriously, do we really need higher def? Maybe for even larger screens, but right now I can scarcely see the difference between really good DVD and Blu-ray on my 50" plasma.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Now if they could only do something about my ageing eyes.

Seriously, do we really need higher def? Maybe for even larger screens, but right now I can scarcely see the difference between really good DVD and Blu-ray on my 50" plasma.

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Looking at bluray movies reviews in term of picture quality, you do have a point that some of them don't look much better than same movie on DVDs. So the blame rest on studios that did a shabby job with bluray mastering rather than your eyes :)

Movies on films can be scanned at 4K rersolution, so the content is there if hardware becomes available.

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Originally Posted by Smokey

That would be Ultra High-Definition.

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As for me, it will be dead on arrival if it continues the "punish-the-buyer" format of taking forever and a day to sync its copy protection scheme and prevent computer server use. Just like with SACD and Blu Ray music for which I will never invest.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

As for me, it will be dead on arrival if it continues the "punish-the-buyer" format of taking forever and a day to sync its copy protection scheme and prevent computer server use. Just like with SACD and Blu Ray music for which I will never invest.

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I don't understand your post as this for for video format not music :)

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Originally Posted by Smokey

I don't understand your post as this for for video format not music

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You've never heard of a media server? Hint: both kinds of content are digital. From a computer's perspective, there's no difference. I've put many a DVD based TV series on wifey's iPad using Handbrake for when she travels.

Do you really think that whenever the millions of Netflix customers selects VOD, there's a guy back there somewhere pulling a disk out of a sleeve and putting it into a player? Are you serious? :)

M-E-D-I-A---S-E-R-V-E-R!

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Now if they could only do something about my ageing eyes.

Seriously, do we really need higher def? Maybe for even larger screens, but right now I can scarcely see the difference between really good DVD and Blu-ray on my 50" plasma.

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Bill,
If you cannot see a difference, then you are likely sitting too far away from the screen. I use a distance calculator to match the size of the sets to the distance I sit from them. I shoot for SMPTE and THX requirements for distance. The assures me I will see every pixel that is active. I must tell ya, I don't own any DVD's that look even close as good as my Blurays. Animation comes close, but it is not a cigar.

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Originally Posted by Smokey

Looking at bluray movies reviews in term of picture quality, you do have a point that some of them don't look much better than same movie on DVDs. So the blame rest on studios that did a shabby job with bluray mastering rather than your eyes :)

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As I told Bill, you have to sit the proper distance from the set in order to see a difference. If you cannot see much of a difference, then you are likely sitting too far back from the set.

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Movies on films can be scanned at 4K rersolution, so the content is there if hardware becomes available.

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Sony and Disney have been doing 4K scans for years. Warner has done some select titles(Lawrence of Arabia being one of them) at 8K resolution. The whole industry has been pushing towards 4k scans at least five years.

If anyone thinks that ANY high definition video format will come unencrypted to the public, they are fooling themselves. It will NEVER happen. The film industry is already kicking themselves in the butt for allowing DVD playback on computers.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

You've never heard of a media server? Hint: both kinds of content are digital. From a computer's perspective, there's no difference. I've put many a DVD based TV series on wifey's iPad using Handbrake for when she travels.

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I am not familiar with media server :)

But I imagine some kind of compression is used to to transfer video to media server as one DVD occupy around 4.5 Gb uncompressed. That probably would not work for me since I prefer picture quality above everything else.

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Originally Posted by Sir TT

I must tell ya, I don't own any DVD's that look even close as good as my Blurays. Animation comes close, but it is not a cigar.

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There is no denying superiority of Bluray over DVD, but it also might be worth noting that all not blurays are created equal.

For example look at this site where they grade movie picture quality on bluray and DVDs. Alot of films on blurays getting grade "C" in picture quality. So stepping up from DVD to bluray on those movies might not be a big step in terms of picture quality:

DVD Movie Guide - Review Archive: #, A - C

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Originally Posted by Smokey

...as one DVD occupy around 4.5 Gb uncompressed

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A 2 TB drive is capable of storing over four hundred movies at that resolution. Cost? $105. Convenience? Priceless

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Originally Posted by Smokey

There is no denying superiority of Bluray over DVD, but it also might be worth noting that all not blurays are created equal.

For example look at this site where they grade movie picture quality on bluray and DVDs. Alot of films on blurays getting grade "C" in picture quality. So stepping up from DVD to bluray on those movies might not be a big step in terms of picture quality:

DVD Movie Guide - Review Archive: #, A - C

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Smokey, when reading these reviews on lesser tiered websites that do reviews, one has to understand the review requirements the website puts on their reviewers. For Bluray.com which is THE top tiered website for Bluray reviews, all reviewers systems must have a Cedia trained calibrator come to their houses to calibrate both the audio and video on their systems. Bluray.com pays for the service, and we are required to get a yearly system checkup. I know of no other website that has such a policy You also have to have a very good understanding of film, video codecs and sound. One of the most interesting things I experienced as a reviewer is when I reviewed the a movie and came to a conclusion on sound and picture, and another website(s) does a similar review on the same disc, and comes to an entirely different conclusion. The knowledge and education of the reviewer on what he is reviewing is extremely important.

Let's take just one or two of his reviews. The 7th Voyage of Sinbad for example since I own this disc and have seen this movie multiple times. He give the picture quality a C- and his main reason is grain. It is apparent to me he does not understand the affect of stop action animation has on film stock. Because stop action animation is layered onto real images, grain will be more apparent. The more layers, the more grain. Based on that knowledge, I would give the movie a solid B rather than a C- because I understand the process better than most do. Grain has a different affects on different display devices, so often the display device is causing more problems than the source itself. Grain(if it is coarse) may cause a digital display to exhibit digital noise far more than a projector will. A digital projector will present grain a bit different than a analog projector.

Another review of a disc I have, and have reviewed is A-Team. He gave the PQ a B. He reduced his score because he didn't like the artistic choice the DP and Director made. That is not the way to use a video score. You drop a score because of edge enhancement, shimmering, picture inconsistencies, flickering, and various other artifacts, not because you don't like the choices the DP made.

Then there is the most important aspect....the equipment. Most reviewers do not get their set professionally calibrated, but use calibration discs. When it comes to sound, the get the levels right, but do nothing about room acoustics. The quality of the equipment will also affect the review score. 4 strategically placed H-PAS subs that have been highly calibrated is going to sound quite different than a single subwoofer that has not been. A speaker that has cabinet resonances(his Michael Green speakers have a severely under-damped cabinet) will sound different than a speaker with no audible cabinet resonances.

I personally think your example is pretty poor(no offense). I would not consider Colin review system as a reference system up to the task of reviewing anything.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

If anyone thinks that ANY high definition video format will come unencrypted to the public, they are fooling themselves.

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Decrypters exist as they do for the DVD format. Reminds me of the Mad magazine Spy vs. Spy storyboards.

The biggest limitation today is storage. Leading edge drives have 4 TB capacity. Five years from now, 20 TB units will make it practical. :)

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Decrypters exist as they do for the DVD format. Reminds me of the Mad magazine Spy vs. Spy storyboards.

The biggest limitation today is storage. Leading edge drives have 4 TB capacity. Five years from now, 20 TB units will make it practical. :)

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Regardless, it is still not practical to store a 50GB disc when almost nobody owns a leading edge disc drives. When 4K hits, it will be even less practical

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

Regardless, it is still not practical to store a 50GB disc when almost nobody owns a leading edge disc drives.

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Which is why I answered the question the way I did. When 20 TB drives cost $105, it will most certainly become practical as it is for DVDs today.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

When 4K hits, it will be even less practical

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In almost every case, I find that Blu Ray offers both superior image and sound quality in my mid-fi HT. Having said that, 4k will likely be limited to theatre projector use (where it is sorely needed) and serious video aficionados (of which I am not).

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Which is why I answered the question the way I did. When 20 TB drives cost $105, it will most certainly become practical as it is for DVDs today.

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Agreed.

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In almost every case, I find that Blu Ray offers both superior image and sound quality in my mid-fi HT. Having said that, 4k will likely be limited to theatre projector use (where it is sorely needed) and serious video aficionados (of which I am not).

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If I am not mistaken, the whole Bluray format is pushing towards 4K, and it is not likely you will have a choice between it and 1080p. 1080p will likely go away totally. Now, you may keep your display which will likely downconvert any 4K sources to 1080i/p, but the source will certainly be 4K.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

Now, you may keep your display which will likely downconvert any 4K sources to 1080i/p, but the source will certainly be 4K.

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Are most BR players BDXL compatible today? If not, that would be a bummer. Yet another upgrade.

As with the display resolution you could choose how you want to save the rip.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Are most BR players BDXL compatible today? If not, that would be a bummer. Yet another upgrade.

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The first generation PS3 is the only player I know of that is. It just needed a firmware upgrade to bring it to compliance. The later PS3 don't have this ability. However, you can bet going forward that some Bluray players going forward with have some level of BDXL compatibility as this does add value to the player.

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As with the display resolution you could choose how you want to save the rip.

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And of course you have to live with the artifacts of that process as well. No data reduction process is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

However, you can bet going forward that some Bluray players going forward with have some level of BDXL compatibility as this does add value to the player.

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And the need to buy new units. Again.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

And of course you have to live with the artifacts of that process as well.

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I could easily live with slightly compromised 1080p quality in order to provide server convenience and eliminate all the blinking, waiting, switching and farting around required to play a single BR disk. :)

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

And the need to buy new units. Again.

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Ahhh Pobrecito, quejandose de un reproductor de Blu-ray $200. Lastima que tan triste.

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I could easily live with slightly compromised 1080p quality in order to provide server convenience and eliminate all the blinking, waiting, switching and farting around required to play a single BR disk. :)

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Then you should welcome getting an upgrade because none of my players do what you describe. The PS3 does not have this problem, and neither does the Oppo.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

Then you should welcome getting an upgrade because none of my players do what you describe. The PS3 does not have this problem, and neither does the Oppo.

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You miss my point. I don't want to buy another player. I want server functionality that renders *players* obsolete.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

You miss my point. I don't want to buy another player. I want server functionality that renders *players* obsolete.

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Good luck on this.......I wish you well even though the Supreme court in California has said ripping DVD(and Bluray) to a server is illegal. Look up Realnetwork versus DVD CCA, and Kaleidescape versus DVD CCA. Now you can do it under the radar, but with the new encryption they are encoding disc's with these days, you may not get any sound even if you can rip it to the server.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

Now you can do it under the radar,

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As I've said before, the movie industry penalizes legitimate customers with its archaic practices and limits the vast world of convenience technology provides.

Then wonders why business is down. :)

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

As I've said before, the movie industry penalizes legitimate customers with its archaic practices and limits the vast world of convenience technology provides.

Then wonders why business is down. :)

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Your sour grapes are pitful, and your facts are inaccurate. DVD sales are down, but Bluray sales are up, and income from streaming is way up. The industry is very healthy thanks to diversified income sources. The studio's no longer have to depend on disc sales alone for revenue.

Yes you said it before and you where wrong then. Now you are saying it again, and you are still wrong.

The majority of those that purchase disc don't do it so they can rip it to a server. Survey after survey has pointed this out, and this is why content sharing has not been implemented on Bluray. The majority just want to put it in a player and push play. So your perspective is not a shared one.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

Your sour grapes are pitful, and your facts are inaccurate. DVD sales are down, but Bluray sales are up

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Sorry, I was talking about total volume where its down- not relative gains.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

, and income from streaming is way up.

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Exactly! No players and winking, blinking ,waiting and farting around to be found here!

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

The industry is very healthy thanks to diversified income sources.

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But down from it's heyday.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

So your perspective is not a shared one.

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Indeed. Most folks have no idea what is possible. Like Smokey who follows video trends.