New Music Servers from Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Marantz and Olive

[Ajani]

For anyone thinking about taking the plunge into music servers, there are now 4 new sub $1K options from Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Marantz and Olive.


Cambridge Audio has the $650 Sonata NP30 Network Music Player:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/654494.html


Rotel has the $1K RDG1520:

http://www.rotel.com/NA/Products/Pro...ils.htm?id=498


Marantz has the $800 NA7004:

http://us.marantz.com/Products/3298.asp


Olive has the $1K O3HD:

http://www.olive.us/products/music_s.../overview.html

[pixelthis]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.
Basically you are paying for looks. In some cases they might not be as versatile as
an older computer. I see computers with 1.8 gig processors selling for as little as a
hundred bucks in the paper all of the time. For five hundred (and thats splurging) you
can build one to spec, there are even horizontal baby ATX cases you can buy.
So who needs a "server"? My current PC can do the job just fine, better probably.

[pixelthis]

AND SUPPORT for flac. Nice, but not the "amazing " advance the PR flak who wrote the article says it is, more like catching up, should have been done years ago. Guess they
got tired of being scared of the record companies, or maybe so much blood is being spilled
it hardly matters anymore.
The CAMBRIDGE is a nice "piece of kit" as the Brits say, but I THINK i'LL JUST ROLL MY OWN.
Pass.

[kevlarus]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.
Basically you are paying for looks. In some cases they might not be as versatile as
an older computer. I see computers with 1.8 gig processors selling for as little as a
hundred bucks in the paper all of the time. For five hundred (and thats splurging) you
can build one to spec, there are even horizontal baby ATX cases you can buy.
So who needs a "server"? My current PC can do the job just fine, better probably.

Too right. Even easier is if you have a wireless network and a blu-ray player wired/wireless so you can stream the music through the audio system from the PC. It's pretty sweet and not limited to music but can do movies/video as well.

$1000 for a PC (server) -- nope, wouldn't pay that these days

[E-Stat]

...so you can stream the music through the audio system from the PC.

Interesting. While my Samsung BR player can stream Pandora, it does not have the capability to access my music library even with network access. What model of player do you use? Presumably, like my Squeezebox, it works in conjunction with software you place on your music server.

rw

[kevlarus]

Interesting. While my Samsung BR player can stream Pandora, it does not have the capability to access my music library even with network access. What model of player do you use? Presumably, like my Squeezebox, it works in conjunction with software you place on your music server.

rw

Actually, I don't need any extra software on the computer side other than turning on media sharing in media player 10 (running XP). It's Sony's 570 blu player and I was pleasantly surprised that it could grab video/music from the desktop, which is actually in another room. It can handle mp3, wma and wav files. Haven't tried ripping a dvd to the computer and playing it from the player yet.

[E-Stat]

It's Sony's 570 blu player and I was pleasantly surprised that it could grab video/music from the desktop, which is actually in another room.

Cool. I don't listen to music where I watch movies so that wasn't a feature I was looking for. I prefer having my desktop located elsewhere, too.

rw

[E-Stat]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.

Actually, these models are simply "network players" (oops, the Olive is) and still require a back end server for music storage. These devices do, however, offer some advantages that others may find desirable. I use both approaches. Most of my CD library has been ripped and stored on my office computer. Since I use the computer's onboard DAC, it is hard wired via ten meter DIY 89259 interconnects to a Kenwood receiver left by the former owner of my house which powers a multi-room in ceiling music system. It works fine for background listening and works great for parties either inside or out by the back deck.

The first advantage of using a "network player" is that you don't necessarily have to have a desktop computer where you play music. I recently bought a Squeezebox Touch for the garage which leverages the content on that same office computer without having to put another computer in the garage. Also, you can place multiple SBs in other rooms all sharing the same library. The other advantage is they typically contain better DACs (units above) or allow for use with outboard DACs (which is what I do with the SB). The SB also supports USB storage (if you use a USB drive, you'll need an external power source) and SD cards for local storage. Very flexible.



rw

[GMichael]

Kapow! Pow pow pow!

[Ajani]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

[recoveryone]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

Not sure what is the issue with your Squeezebox, the built in DAC's are on par with any mid-highend range system. It may be more of what type/format you have ripped your music. I did a side by side when I first purchased my Squeezebox 3/Classic and found that if you rip at a level of 320kps or higher you will be very hard press to tell the differences between the CD. That was a blind test sitting in the sweet spot, having someone else do the switching on the same album. But again to each his/her own, I say why not go complete full bore and get the Transport from SlimDevice/logicTech and that way you can say I have the best of the best. and it still will depend on the level of Kps you ripped the music any way, but have the comfort of knowing I have the best.

Oh and you still need that old computer with these new DAR's minus the olive one and that sales pitch you better get your boots on, cause its getting deep.

[Ajani]

Not sure what is the issue with your Squeezebox, the built in DAC's are on par with any mid-highend range system.

What mid-high end DAC have you compared it to? Based on both my own comparisons and all reviews I've read, the internal DAC is only on par with budget CD players... So nothing High end or even Mid level...

It may be more of what type/format you have ripped your music. I did a side by side when I first purchased my Squeezebox 3/Classic and found that if you rip at a level of 320kps or higher you will be very hard press to tell the differences between the CD. That was a blind test sitting in the sweet spot, having someone else do the switching on the same album. But again to each his/her own,

My music is ripped in Apple Lossless.

I say why not go complete full bore and get the Transport from SlimDevice/logicTech and that way you can say I have the best of the best. and it still will depend on the level of Kps you ripped the music any way, but have the comfort of knowing I have the best.

I could care less about the comfort of knowing I have the best... I am concerned with whether it sounds good to me... Also, the Transporter is not the best DAC in the world (though it is supposed to be very good)...

Oh and you still need that old computer with these new DAR's minus the olive one and that sales pitch you better get your boots on, cause its getting deep.

Ummm... OK....

[recoveryone]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

You left out part of the sentence?

Here is the post that got my attention and yes you made the assumption about the name brand. And when you stated that the Dac's in the squeezbox were only some budget level, I only posted the spec sheet to prove that their are quality parts used in the design of the unit. Now I re-read those ads again, the Cambridge does not even state what Dac's it has and the the Rotel use the Wolfson Dac's. So as you point out that I had holes in my points, but I only showed that the information on these are incomplete, so to say,hope or wish they are better is a reach. So even if I did tried to compare spec's only the SB would still come out ahead due to lack of information from the others. For some reason you think me and others are attacking you, but that is not the case from me for sure.

[Ajani]

You left out part of the sentence?

Here is the post that got my attention and yes you made the assumption about the name brand. And when you stated that the Dac's in the squeezbox were only some budget level, I only posted the spec sheet to prove that their are quality parts used in the design of the unit. Now I re-read those ads again, the Cambridge does not even state what Dac's it has and the the Rotel use the Wolfson Dac's. So as you point out that I had holes in my points, but I only showed that the information on these are incomplete, so to say,hope or wish they are better is a reach. So even if I did tried to compare spec's only the SB would still come out ahead due to lack of information from the others. For some reason you think me and others are attacking you, but that is not the case from me for sure.

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

[recoveryone]

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

my point was the value and performance of the SB compare to a unit costing hundreds more. and here is the info on a couple of companies that make the upgraded power cord:


Summing up
While the Slim Devices Squeezebox with stock power supply (footnote 1) offers generally good performance from its analog outputs, it was the sound it produced driving a high-end DAC from its digital output that persuaded me to purchase the review sample. While I still turn to a dedicated disc player for the highest sound quality, much of my listening to music is done while I'm doing something else—writing, editing, reading—and for that, the Squeezebox has become my primary source. As I wrote in the mid-April eNewsletter, "physical discs seem so 20th century!" Very highly recommended.

---

Footnote 1: A number of companies, such as Red Wine Audio and Bolder Cable, now offer modifications and upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox. Red Wine also offers a battery supply for the Squeezebox.

[Ajani]

my point was the value and performance of the SB compare to a unit costing hundreds more. and here is the info on a couple of companies that make the upgraded power cord:


Summing up
While the Slim Devices Squeezebox with stock power supply (footnote 1) offers generally good performance from its analog outputs, it was the sound it produced driving a high-end DAC from its digital output that persuaded me to purchase the review sample. While I still turn to a dedicated disc player for the highest sound quality, much of my listening to music is done while I'm doing something else—writing, editing, reading—and for that, the Squeezebox has become my primary source. As I wrote in the mid-April eNewsletter, "physical discs seem so 20th century!" Very highly recommended.

---

Footnote 1: A number of companies, such as Red Wine Audio and Bolder Cable, now offer modifications and upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox. Red Wine also offers a battery supply for the Squeezebox.

Seriously do you even read the reviews you post??? They all say the exact same thing I've said:

The analog output of the Squeezebox is nothing special - good for $300, but definitely not mid or high end, regardless of what the spec sheet says about the DAC chip that it uses (BTW Burr Brown DAC chips are used in $300 CD players as well - that doesn't meant those players sound as good as high end ones)... The reviewer you quoted, John Atkinson if I'm not mistaken, makes it clear that he purchased the sample to use the digital outputs with a high end DAC... The digital outputs are fine, but that requires using an external DAC (like the Benchmark I use)... Note that he does not say that he bought the unit and used the analog outputs with an upgraded power supply ($10 power cord or whatever)...

Also, I suggest you research the rating the Squeezebox Classic was given in Stereophile versus the Marantz SA8001 CD Player... Then you will understand the reputation I am referring to for Marantz products around the $1K mark... And why it is possible that the players I opened this thread to talk about may indeed sound better than the $300 Squeezebox...

Note also, that an $800 streamer sounding better than a $300 one does not in anyway imply that the $300 one is not a good product (since somehow you think I'm dissing the Squeezebox by suggesting that more expensive alternatives might sound better)

[recoveryone]

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

When using conjectures you lead your readers to think you are stating fact from a belief: So If the world is round I will sail around the world

So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound...


con·jec·ture

   /kənˈdʒɛktʃər/ Show Spelled [kuhn-jek-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
–noun 1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

3. Obsolete . the interpretation of signs or omens.


–verb (used with object) 4. to conclude or suppose from grounds or evidence insufficient to ensure reliability.

[Mr Peabody]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

[Ajani]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

None of the others have storage, though they all can read files from a USB hard-drive... So you could just buy a USB Hard-drive (really cheap) and use with them...

[pixelthis]

None of the others have storage, though they all can read files from a USB hard-drive... So you could just buy a USB Hard-drive (really cheap) and use with them...

SO THEY ARE just an expensive computer without storage!.
A ONE TERAByte DRIVE and a DVD drive to load stuff with, a few hundred bucks extra.
HOW CHEAP.

[Ajani]

SO THEY ARE just an expensive computer without storage!.
A ONE TERAByte DRIVE and a DVD drive to load stuff with, a few hundred bucks extra.
HOW CHEAP.

Pix these products (with exception of the Olive) are essentially Squeezeboxes (hopefully with better DACs and output stages)... So the reason to consider buying any of them is because they would have good sound quality... If you believe that all digital sounds the same, then you could just buy a Squeezebox or even better yet a used laptop and plug it directly into your stereo...

[pixelthis]

Pix these products (with exception of the Olive) are essentially Squeezeboxes (hopefully with better DACs and output stages)... So the reason to consider buying any of them is because they would have good sound quality... If you believe that all digital sounds the same, then you could just buy a Squeezebox or even better yet a used laptop and plug it directly into your stereo...

You miss my point.
How much extra would a cheap optical drive and a 1TB drive for storage cost? A few
hundred bucks. So its a squeezebox, still figuring out why you need one of those,
but why do you need one of these then? Anybody that knows computers doesnt need a squeeze, BTW.

[Hyfi]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

With a 1 or 2 TB hard drive, you can rip way more CDs onto it in wav format and lose nothing from the original disk. With the price of Hard Drives these days, there is no real need to rip to a smaller file size accept for ipod type usage.

So a PC based server or even just a $200 2TB Mybook network drive streamed through a wireless blu ray player will work just the same except for the neat filing and playlist controls.

I actually like the look and convenience of the servers but can't justify buying one just to play my CDs without loading a CD into the player.

[Feanor]

I'm ignorant about commercial streaming -- wish I knew more about it. I do know that my DLNA/UPnP-compliant Blu-ray will do some of that but I haven't given much thought to streaming movies. I don't know what's available in Canada at the moment though Netflix is here or will be shortly. Also, I have a $100 ASUS media player will do some of the same stuff as the Blu-ray. Right now I just use it to play videos stored on my Windows Home Server.

For serious listening on my stereo system I use a dedicated computer. This is an old Pentium 4 / WinXP machine with an M-Audio sound card and running Foobar2000 as music player. BTW, I nowadays prefer FLAC as a music format, but have plenty of stuff in other formats, including MP3 and ALAC, (Apple Lossless).

The long & short of it is I don't see myself getting one of these devices. The Cambridge looks as good as any as well as being cheapest. I have no interest in a device with built-in storage, such as the Olive, because I prefer to put in on the Windows server.

[recoveryone]

I wired my setup digital from source to output, so less chance of drop in signal in my main system. for the Squeezebox's I have upstairs they are connected via RCA to the AVR's and I do hear the difference. and that may be that the gear upstairs is just not as good as the main system (speakers and all) IMHO your setup on your squeezebox is being over processed unnecessarily, that why I brought up the comment about the transport. From your posting you feel it will never sound good enough unless it has a brand name that you respect. If you read the olive ad info it even says that it only rip to the level of 320kps and that is what I stated as being the starting point of matching a CD, some like apple lossless or Windows lossless, so these DAR don't do anything above or beyond what your squeezebox is capable of doing. As I read each ad info they didn't spend much time on the playback ability of ripped music, but focus more on their ability to play internet channels and services, Just an observation, may mean nothing. Also I notice that the olive only had RCA outputs.

Audio outputs (general)
- Digital and analog outputs
- All RCA connectors are gold-plated
- Volume control is provided for all outputs
- Multiple outputs may be used at the same time

Analog RCA outputs
- High fidelity Burr-Brown™ 24-bit DAC
- Two dedicated linear power regulators for DAC and line-out stages
- Full 6.0Vpp line-level signals
- Signal-to-noise ratio: over 100dB
- Total harmonic distortion: less than -93.5dB (0.002%)
Digital S/PDIF outputs
- Optical and coax digital connections
- Dedicated high-precision crystal oscillators (no PLL, no resampling)
- Standard IEC-958 (S/PDIF) encoding
- Optical connector: TOSLINK 660nm
- Coax connector: RCA, 500mVpp into 75 ohms
- Sample rates: 44.1Khz, 48Khz
- Audio format: linear PCM, 16 or 24 bits per sample
- Intrinsic jitter: less than 50ps (standard deviation)
Headphone output
- Standard 1/8" jack also functions as an IR blaster
- Minimum headphone impedance: 16 ohms
- Total harmonic distortion: less than 0.03%
- Left/right crosstalk attenuation: 92dB
Audio formats
- Lossless Formats (Apple Lossless, FLAC, WMA Lossless)
o "Bit-perfect" CD audio streaming, with reduced storage and bandwidth usage.
o Approximately 2:1 compression ratio
- Uncompressed formats (AIFF, WAV, PCM)
o Supports raw pass-through of uncompressed PCM audio formats
o Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS
- Compressed formats (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP2, MusePack, WMA)
o MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder.
o High accuracy 24-bit synthesis
o Supports all MP3 data rates and sample rates, including VBR
o May be streamed in PCM (raw), MP3 (transcoded), or FLAC (transcoded) formats
o Sound Check and Replay Gain support for automatic volume control.
o Some formats may require additional software installation (e.g. QuickTime), depending on platform.
Internet Radio
- "Always-on" Internet Radio, powered by SqueezeNetwork, lets you tune in to Internet Radio streams even when the home PC is switched off.
- Quick selection from hundreds of Internet Radio streams offered by Slim Devices' partners.
- Internet Radio favorites can be saved in a playlist for easy access.
- Displays song title information during playback
- Support for MP3, Ogg Vorbis, and WMA formatted Internet Radio streams
Architecture
- 250 MHz 8-way multithreaded RISC processor
- "Pure software" SlimDSP™ architecture
- Field-upgradeable Xilinx CPLD
- 64Mb high-speed RAM
- 16Mb program flash
- Low-power design, all solid-state, fanless

I think Burr Brown Dac's are still considered mid to highend Dac's,

Aphanetworks.com review July 2007



I for one listen often to an internet channel (last.Fm), mainly to find more artist that I may like to download later to my old P4 900Mhz 320 gig external HD running XP pro.
Cost factor:

Computer.......................Free (picked it up from local church that was upgrading)
External HD...................$50 (table sale at Staples)
PCI wireless card...........$5.00 (On Ebay)

Unlimited music listening via internet and my own collection covering from Motown to last weeks top 10 (my kids)

Priceless