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  1. #51
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    SO WHEN YOU are watching a 30hz video on a 60hz set, what are
    you "watching" between frames? THE SAME NOTHING that
    is between your ears?
    Like teaching physics to orangutan's. YOU SIT and watch a 60hz set, and don't understand that every 1 sixtieth of a sec a new frame is painted. Again, the REFRESH rate is the same as the frame
    rate you are watching. THE frame rate of the original video
    hardly matters, except in extreme circumstances, like trying
    to run 30fps video at 240hz, which is like spreading paint too
    thin, and overtaxing your microscopic brainpan.
    No such thing as 30hz video, and every link I posted says your information is misinformation. So you say the frame rate is the same as the refresh rate. If a what comes out of the film(or video) camera is 24fps, how does a 60hz television come up with 36 extra frames per second? Pulls them out of thin air? Or how does a 120hz set get the other 96 frames? Just make them up? If the frame rate is the same as the refresh rate, then why do we need 3:2 pulldown?

    Your weak shyt is as transparent as Casper the friendly ghost. Instead of throwing out insults, you need to prove your point. So where are the links that say the refresh rate and the frame rates are the same? Surely if you are correct you should have no problem producing a link. I have provided at least three that say you don't know what you are talking about. We already know you will lie at the opening of a letter, so I want you to post links that support what you say.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 07-06-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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  2. #52
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    No such thing as 30hz video, and every link I posted says your information is misinformation. So you say the frame rate is the same as the refresh rate. If a what comes out of the film(or video) camera is 24fps, how does a 60hz television come up with 36 extra frames per second? Pulls them out of thin air? Or how does a 120hz set get the other 96 frames? Just make them up? If the frame rate is the same as the refresh rate, then why do we need 3:2 pulldown?
    A 120HZ set gets the "extra" frames by interpolating new frames
    on the fly between existing frames...
    OF WHICH THEIR ARE SIXTY.
    On a 240 hz set, up to 75% of the frames are made up on the fly, which is why it resembles bad computer video.
    3:2 pulldown was needed to get a 24fps film rate to match a 30hz video rate. ON A BLU ray that is 24fps, with a compatible set,
    the picture output is at 72hz, three of each frame, which acts
    like 24fps(24x3). HOW does a 60hz set show 30hz video?
    PROBABLY by showing 2 of each frame, but it hardly matters,
    when a screen "refreshes" IT PAINTS A NEW FRAME. That is
    what REFRESH means

    Your weak shyt is as transparent as Casper the friendly ghost. Instead of throwing out insults, you need to prove your point. So where are the links that say the refresh rate and the frame rates are the same? Surely if you are correct you should have no problem producing a link. I have provided at least three that say you don't know what you are talking about. We already know you will lie at the opening of a letter, so I want you to post links that support what you say.
    FIND your "links" yourself, I AM NOT YOUR SERVANT.
    Believe it or not there was a world before the internet, I LEARNED
    about how video operates in electronics class, never looked up a
    "link" because why look up something you already know?
    HERES a good one for you genius, if a monitor is NOT painting a
    new frame each time it refreshes...
    THEN WHAT IS IT DOING?
    BTW, my brother the engineer (what does he know) told
    me when he was training me on computers that the higher refresh rate of computer monitors was why they looked so much better
    than a TV , and when I asked him how they showed video he
    said they had to step down the refresh rate to match the video
    rate. THAT doesn't happen with newer versions of windows so
    I assume that the frame rate is converted to 60fps...or 60hz..
    WHICH ARE ALWAYS THE SAME.
    And I ASSUMED that new panels, which are computers, basically
    do the same thing. THE EASIEST way to do this would be to
    take each of 60 fields(with interlaced video) and create 60 frames.
    DON'T know or care about progressive, and that is not germane
    to what I AM SAYING.
    The frame rate always matches up to the refresh rate.
    WE WILL go over your long division tommorrow.
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  3. #53
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    The cost doesn't justify the benefits in my opinion and 3D with glasses isn't too much of a hassle. But still I'm glad that the technology is there for glass-less 3D TVs. Now to just play the waiting game for the price to drop...

  4. #54
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    FIND your "links" yourself, I AM NOT YOUR SERVANT.
    Believe it or not there was a world before the internet, I LEARNED
    about how video operates in electronics class, never looked up a
    "link" because why look up something you already know?
    HERES a good one for you genius, if a monitor is NOT painting a
    new frame each time it refreshes...
    THEN WHAT IS IT DOING?
    BTW, my brother the engineer (what does he know) told
    me when he was training me on computers that the higher refresh rate of computer monitors was why they looked so much better
    than a TV , and when I asked him how they showed video he
    said they had to step down the refresh rate to match the video
    rate. THAT doesn't happen with newer versions of windows so
    I assume that the frame rate is converted to 60fps...or 60hz..
    WHICH ARE ALWAYS THE SAME.
    And I ASSUMED that new panels, which are computers, basically
    do the same thing. THE EASIEST way to do this would be to
    take each of 60 fields(with interlaced video) and create 60 frames.
    DON'T know or care about progressive, and that is not germane
    to what I AM SAYING.
    The frame rate always matches up to the refresh rate.
    WE WILL go over your long division tommorrow.
    Those new interpolated frames are developed by the set, not by the original source. This is what separates the frame rate from the refresh rate. The original source is either 24fps, or 30fps for video. That is fed to the television set, which then interpolates frames to match the refresh rate of the set...two different processes from two different ends. Pretty much the same process as upsampling in audio.

    The funny thing here is that you use the words "i thought" and " I assumed" of which neither says " I know".

    You stated that you learned all you knew in "electronics" class. The funny thing idiot is there was no video sources to study back in your electronic classes, you are past fifty years old! LOLOLOLOL.

    Thank you for this tibit. Now we can effectively ignore your dated information.

    Geeze, now he is inject computer stuff into the picture. Windows??? WTF!!!
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  5. #55
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Those new interpolated frames are developed by the set, not by the original source. This is what separates the frame rate from the refresh rate. The original source is either 24fps, or 30fps for video. That is fed to the television set, which then interpolates frames to match the refresh rate of the set...two different processes from two different ends. Pretty much the same process as upsampling in audio.

    The funny thing here is that you use the words "i thought" and " I assumed" of which neither says " I know".

    You stated that you learned all you knew in "electronics" class. The funny thing idiot is there was no video sources to study back in your electronic classes, you are past fifty years old! LOLOLOLOL.

    Thank you for this tibit. Now we can effectively ignore your dated information.

    Geeze, now he is inject computer stuff into the picture. Windows??? WTF!!!
    GEE, I wonder how long you are going to gloat before that
    microscopic nerve glanglia you call a brain figures out
    that you are saying THE EXACT THING I AM.
    Doesnt matter where the frames come from, the
    NUMBER of frames matches the refresh rate, which is all
    i am saying.
    WHEN YOU read a book (like you could) does it matter that
    its original ENGLISH or translated INTO ENGLISH?
    Same with a frame rate that doesnt match the refresh rate,
    in the end it always will.
    IF YOU WATCH A monitor with a 60hz refresh rate, you
    are watching sixty frames a second.
    LIKE potty training a F***ing cat.
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  6. #56
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis View Post
    GEE, I wonder how long you are going to gloat before that
    microscopic nerve glanglia you call a brain figures out
    that you are saying THE EXACT THING I AM.
    Doesnt matter where the frames come from, the
    NUMBER of frames matches the refresh rate, which is all
    i am saying.
    WHEN YOU read a book (like you could) does it matter that
    its original ENGLISH or translated INTO ENGLISH?
    Same with a frame rate that doesnt match the refresh rate,
    in the end it always will.
    IF YOU WATCH A monitor with a 60hz refresh rate, you
    are watching sixty frames a second.
    LIKE potty training a F***ing cat.
    Yes it does matter where the frames come from. It matters because it keeps your uber stupid azz from just making shyt up because you don't understand the process. The number of frames are determined by the film or video camera(source), not what frames the television repeats to smooth motion within those images. There is no such video or film format that supports 60fps to match a 60hz set...THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!. There is no video or film format that outputs 120fps to match a 120hz set of 240fps to match a 240hz set. There is just two frame rates used on video sources today...24fps and 30fps. Since camera's themselves do not refresh, there is no way to tie refresh rates with frame rates. The very reason we have gone from 60hz refresh rate to 120hz refresh rates is to smooth moving images that would normally be jerky during panning.

    You seem to be incapable of separating one process from another. The television does not create new frames, but flashes what frames are encoded into the disc or broadcast more than once. That is not frame creation, it is frame repetition. The refresh rate is how many times a second the images are "painted" onto the screen. Frame generation, frame interpolation, and refreshing the screen are three distinct process, and cannot be smeared together to cover your ignorance. Each address a different processes that stretch from the camera to your set. Frame creation is what it is, frame interpolation smooths jerky pans, and the refreshing of the screen get's the images painted on the screen.

    Since your knowledge was gained 100 years ago, and you have not learned much since then, I think it is safe for anyone to completely ignore you non factual misinformation.

    In terms of audio and video, you are irrelevant.
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  7. #57
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Yes it does matter where the frames come from. It matters because it keeps your uber stupid azz from just making shyt up because you don't understand the process. The number of frames are determined by the film or video camera(source), not what frames the television repeats to smooth motion within those images. There is no such video or film format that supports 60fps to match a 60hz set...THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!. There is no video or film format that outputs 120fps to match a 120hz set of 240fps to match a 240hz set. There is just two frame rates used on video sources today...24fps and 30fps. Since camera's themselves do not refresh, there is no way to tie refresh rates with frame rates. The very reason we have gone from 60hz refresh rate to 120hz refresh rates is to smooth moving images that would normally be jerky during panning.
    WHERE TO START?
    You are talking about potatoes, I am talking about TATER
    SALAD.
    What your simple mind doesnt seem to understand is that
    the 30fps(there is no 24fps in video) is a start, a monitor winds
    up outputting 60hz, if its 120 hz it outputs 120fps.
    IT DOESNT MATTER what the "frame rate" of the video that
    the process started with...
    THAT IS IRRELEVANT.
    If you want to send 10,000 hz a bit father than hearing, you
    tack it onto a "carrier", say 95,5 MHZ, AND FOR A TIME,
    you have 95.510 mhz. WHEN IT GETS TO THE RADIO its
    stripped of the carrier, converted back to 10,000 hz,
    so you can hear it.
    AND WHEN a 30hz video is displayed on a 60hz monitor it is converted to 60HZ, DOESN'T MATTER THAT IT STARTED OUT 30FPS, when your dumb butt is watching it on your 60hz set, you are watching 60 FRAMES A SECOND.
    120HZ...ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY frames a second.
    There is one other new format...72HZ. When a BLU player
    picks up a compatible monitor it outputs 72 hz video, three
    identical frames, which gives you 24fps(72 divided by three).
    THIS is seen as 24fps .



    You seem to be incapable of separating one process from another. The television does not create new frames, but flashes what frames are encoded into the disc or broadcast more than once. That is not frame creation, it is frame repetition. The refresh rate is how many times a second the images are "painted" onto the screen. Frame generation, frame interpolation, and refreshing the screen are three distinct process, and cannot be smeared together to cover your ignorance. Each address a different processes that stretch from the camera to your set. Frame creation is what it is, frame interpolation smooths jerky pans, and the refreshing of the screen get's the images painted on the screen.
    Which is WHAT I am saying!!!!!
    GOD, if only you were smart enough to figure that out.
    ALL I am saying is that when a monitor "refreshes"

    IT PAINTS A NEW FRAME!!

    THE "refresh" rate equals the "frame" rate!!!


    Since your knowledge was gained 100 years ago, and you have not learned much since then, I think it is safe for anyone to completely ignore you non factual misinformation.
    Then they need to ignore yours...BECAUSE YOU ARE SAYING THE SAME THING I AM.
    Only difference is that, your IQ being the same as your shoe size,
    you are having trouble figuring that out. WHAT DID YOU USE FOR a thought process before they invented search engines(what are you using now)?

    In terms of audio and video, you are irrelevant.
    IN TERMS of being a human being you are irrelevant.

    YOU HATE SOMEONE so bad that you can't comprehend
    that they are saying the same thing you are!!!
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  8. #58
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    If I ever seen two guys keep going in a circle, you two are it

    I think when Sir TT said that frame rate is product of camera and refresh rate is product of TV, that pretty much said it all.

  9. #59
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    If I ever seen two guys keep going in a circle, you two are it

    I think when Sir TT said that frame rate is product of camera and refresh rate is product of TV, that pretty much said it all.
    WHATEVER.
    The "refresh rate " is the current frame rate, no matter WHAT.
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  10. #60
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    If I ever seen two guys keep going in a circle, you two are it

    I think when Sir TT said that frame rate is product of camera and refresh rate is product of TV, that pretty much said it all.
    Who's on first?
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  11. #61
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    If I ever seen two guys keep going in a circle, you two are it

    I think when Sir TT said that frame rate is product of camera and refresh rate is product of TV, that pretty much said it all.
    Yes that pretty much sums it up for intelligent folks. Pix is another story altogether. He thinks we are saying the same thing, and of course anyone who can read can see we are not.
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    3d makes me feel sick

  13. #63
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    It's easy to understand the difference between frame rate and refresh rate. I'm not sure how increasing the refresh rate makes for a better picture.

    If you increase refresh rates, there is no improvement in the picture. You just get twice as many of the same frames.

    It seems to me that the only way higher refresh rates might make a difference is to use interpolation of adjacent frames every other frame. Of course, with present day technologies, that has the possibility of creating visual artifacts.

    If interpolation is used, then Pixelthis is correct that the number of frames increase. You just have to keep in mind that every other frame is some mathematical summation of two adjacent frames and not what was actually in the broadcast.

    Technically, Sir ITT is correct.

    If I understand it correctly, 24 frames a second gets converted to 30 frames a second by adding 6 additional frames a second which is an interpolation of adjacent frames.

    Well, that's what I think.

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  14. #64
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant View Post
    It's easy to understand the difference between frame rate and refresh rate. I'm not sure how increasing the refresh rate makes for a better picture.
    It does not. It just creates a smoother looking picture.

    If you increase refresh rates, there is no improvement in the picture. You just get twice as many of the same frames.
    Exactly.

    It seems to me that the only way higher refresh rates might make a difference is to use interpolation of adjacent frames every other frame. Of course, with present day technologies, that has the possibility of creating visual artifacts.
    It could make judder worse.

    If interpolation is used, then Pixelthis is correct that the number of frames increase. You just have to keep in mind that every other frame is some mathematical summation of two adjacent frames and not what was actually in the broadcast.
    Frame interpolation does not create new information, it interpolates information already presented. The frame rate is established by the camera system. Any other process is just that...a process.



    If I understand it correctly, 24 frames a second gets converted to 30 frames a second by adding 6 additional frames a second which is an interpolation of adjacent frames.

    Well, that's what I think.
    It is called 3:2 pulldown.
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