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  1. #1
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Woodman, info on no-name brand TVs.

    Hi Woody

    It seem that stores such as bestbuy or Circuitcity are flooded by cheap no brand TV that are almost 1/3 price of regular TV. TV brands such as Advent, ESA, Durabrand, Symphonic, Orion, Sylvania, Aventura.

    Since you have been in TV industry for over 50 years (75 years if from birth ), I was wondering if you have any idea as to origin of these TVs and why they sell so cheap? Also would you recommend buying any of these TVs. For example, BestBuy have Advent 27 inch HD TV for $350 with one full year parts AND labor warranty!

    I know that Daewoo company make Sylvania, Emerson and Durabrand (and maybe Orion), but I am not sure about the rest.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I highly recommend not buying the advent 27" HD. VERY cheaply made set. Our demo model crapped out very quickly and the picture quality never even looked as good a regular 27" even on HD sources. The screen always had a flicker to it then one day it just shut off and has been like that ever since......

    Prima is "OK"

    Konka = stay away

    thats my input

  3. #3
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    advent tvs

    I would also recommend that all avoid advent.

    I purchased a 20 inch model last year before christmass based solely on price. I was never fully impressed with the picture, but since it was a 2nd tv that was rarely used, I didn't return it (bad decision). Within a month it started making a whining noise that was intermittant. About a year later (a month ago) it went completely dead. I thought I had gotten a great deal (awesome price), but now I know better. I will never buy another tv from a manufacturer other than the big names.

  4. #4
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Talking

    They are fine. Just get a small one so when you have to bring it in for repairs,its easy to carry.
    Look & Listen

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Hi Woody

    It seem that stores such as bestbuy or Circuitcity are flooded by cheap no brand TV that are almost 1/3 price of regular TV. TV brands such as Advent, ESA, Durabrand, Symphonic, Orion, Sylvania, Aventura.
    This "trend" - which to some might seem to be a good thing, is in truth the worst aspect of the entire consumer electronics industry. Rather than being a godsend to consumers, it's a Monster (go ahead and sue me, Noel Lee) that bites the poor unsuspecting consumer directly in the ass!

    ... I was wondering if you have any idea as to origin of these TVs and why they sell so cheap?
    Of course I do. They originate in countries in Asia where labor is cheap (sometimes China, but more likely Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, HongKong, etc.) and business ethics are nearly non-existent. The underlying factor in the business model is - how cheaply the product can be turned out. "Cut" every corner possible - find the cheapest source of parts possible - hire the "engineers" who will work for the least amount of money - and on and on like that. The fact that the products work at all is nothing short of a miracle.

    Also would you recommend buying any of these TVs. For example, BestBuy have Advent 27 inch HD TV for $350 with one full year parts AND labor warranty!
    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha ... NO! Doing so merely exacerbates the "problem" - it sends the message loud and clear to the industry that cheap - cheaper - cheapest is what "floats your boat", rather than what was (in the "good old days") - "good - better - best"

    I know that Daewoo company make Sylvania, Emerson and Durabrand (and maybe Orion), but I am not sure about the rest.Thanks.
    ... and this is important to know because?
    woodman

    I plan to live forever ..... so far, so good!
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  6. #6
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for info on Advent TV. It was just too good to be true. And for your advice Shokhead, please quit giving them

    Also thanks woody for info. Going by your statement, It is a shame that in order for a product to be lower price, the quality and reliability have to suffer first. I guess it goes with the territory and cheap labor and engineers you mentioned.

    You also said:"... and this is important to know because?"

    I just find it funny that a company producing TVs with different brand names that almost cost the same. Couldn't they just stick with one name

  7. #7
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Wink

    Dont post questions and i wont. General rule is if you buy low grade,it is. Cheap labor makes tons of it.
    Last edited by shokhead; 01-23-2005 at 12:31 PM.
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  8. #8
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Thanks guys for info on Advent TV. It was just too good to be true. And for your advice Shokhead, please quit giving them

    Also thanks woody for info. Going by your statement, It is a shame that in order for a product to be lower price, the quality and reliability have to suffer first. I guess it goes with the territory and cheap labor and engineers you mentioned.

    You also said:"... and this is important to know because?"

    I just find it funny that a company producing TVs with different brand names that almost cost the same. Couldn't they just stick with one name
    Actually, the NY Times ran an article on off-brand TVs a few weeks ago (this was in conjunction with the arrest of Apex's chairman for fraud). Very interesting insight into how these off-brand TVs proliferate and get branded onto revived nameplates with a long heritage.

    This would include brands like Advent and Curtis Mathes, which both had long histories and devoted followings. In both cases, the products carrying their name right now has no connection whatsoever to the more illustrious products that formerly bore those nameplates. Advent at one point was a pioneering electronics company, producing some of the most popular acoustic suspension speakers of its day, and some of the early big screen projection TVs.

    The interesting thing about the companies in China that manufacture these lower tiered products, is that they go out of business all the time in China. Another article I read last year said that in a one-year time period, more than half of the companies producing DVD players in China closed shop (I think the actual figure was somewhere around 80%). In addressing Woody's question, it probably doesn't matter who produces these cheap TVs, because 1) even if they are sold under the same brand, the suppliers change all the time; and 2) whatever outsource company actually manufactures these TVs might not outlast the TV itself!

    For the millions of TVs and DVD players that Apex sold under its name (and they worked with a network of suppliers), that NY Times article said that they had a total U.S. staff of only about 20 people! That, along with the high turnover with the firms that make products for companies like Apex, does not bode well for customer service.

    This practice of culling together products from different outsource manufacturers and then sticking a more well known name plate on it is nothing new. The difference is that back in the day, the outsource manufacturers were not total unknowns. For example, Quasar and Sylvania TVs 20 years ago were designed and manufactured by Motorola; and even now, Hitachi and Panasonic make plasma panels for several other manufacturers. The difference with these off-brands is that it seems that the quality oversight and aftersales support has totally gone out the window, and there's no longer any continuity. If you actually decide to repair one of these things, who's going to work on it, find parts for it, or even know how to find a repair manual?

  9. #9
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Wooch.

    I didn't know Apex's chairman got arrested for fraud. That might explain why Circuitcity don't carry Apex brand anymore. Last year that store was flooded with Apex TVs, but in the recent visit, there were hardly any on display. And having a total U.S. staff of only about 20 people is a scary one. I wonder how TV repair shops feel about these no name brand TVs after trying to get some literature on these TVs.

    By the way, do you happen to have link to NYtimes article. No luck using Google.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Thanks for the info Wooch.

    I didn't know Apex's chairman got arrested for fraud. That might explain why Circuitcity don't carry Apex brand anymore. Last year that store was flooded with Apex TVs, but in the recent visit, there were hardly any on display. And having a total U.S. staff of only about 20 people is a scary one. I wonder how TV repair shops feel about these no name brand TVs after trying to get some literature on these TVs.

    By the way, do you happen to have link to NYtimes article. No luck using Google.

    Thanks.
    Apex is still around, but they're no longer the only player in their market. A whole slew of other low end players have entered the market, so Apex is no longer the only option in that low price point, and at places like BB and CC, they're actually trying to move away from pushing the off-brands.

    I'd read several articles in December when the Apex chairman was arrested, so I could be mixing my sources around. I believe it was the LA Times that chronicled how Apex built their operation and how they operate out of a spartan facility around LA. The NY Times had the article on off-brand TVs in general. Unfortunately, it's more than two weeks old, so you now have to pay to read the whole thing. Here's the abstract.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...archive:search

    ================================================== ============

    No End in Sight to Supply of Cheap TV's

    By SAUL HANSELL AND ERIC A. TAUB; CHRISTOPHER BUCKLEY CONTRIBUTED REPORTING FROM BEIJING FOR THIS ARTICLE. (NYT) 1192 words
    Late Edition - Final , Section C , Page 1 , Column 2

    ABSTRACT - Television industry experts say financial problems plaguing Apex Digital and Sichuan Changhong Electric Appliance Co, large Chinese television maker that produced most of television sets for Apex will not hurt conventional cathode-ray tube television industry; say those sets, which are increasingly produced by low-cost makers in China and elsewhere, are so inexpensive that few companies can build stable business around selling them, yet many companies are still supplying market with cheap sets; Apex, which has sold inexpensive sets through Wal-Mart, Circuit City, and other retail outlets, largely pulled out of low-end TV business in middle of last year; Changhong said last month Apex owed it $467.5 million, and as result, it would post big loss for 2004; Apex's chairman David Ji has been arrested by Chinese authorities and has been charged with fraud; graph; photo (M)

  11. #11
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    And at places like BB and CC, they're actually trying to move away from pushing the off-brands.
    That is probably a smart move since there are more trouble than worth. For example, I tried an Apex TV last year, and returned it the same day because picture and geometry was so bad.

    Also thanks for the link

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